China plans chequers to checkmate India .

[IndoCarib]

For those who are smug about Chinese aircraft carriers. Here is a needle to burst your hot air balloon !


India, of course, has been in the business of operating "flattops" for five decades now, commissioning as it did its first carrier INS Vikrant with its Sea Hawk jets way back in 1961. As of now, the Navy operates the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat, even though it's left with only 11 of its Sea Harrier jump-jets.

"Aircraft carriers, which can travel 600 nautical miles a day, are no doubt game-changers. But it takes a lot in terms of fleet doctrines and tactics, training and technology to operate them effectively," said a top Navy officer.

Interestingly, China has got its first carrier by refurbishing a rusting half-completed `Varyag' 67,500-tonne carrier, which was first built in the Soviet Union of 1980s and was then bought by China from Ukraine in 1998 on the pretext of running it as a floating casino.

For another, India has already launched preparations for the "integration" of MiG-29Ks, the first-ever naval supersonic fighters it's now inducting, with the 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya or the refitted Admiral Gorshkov it will get from Russia in early-2013.

Moreover, the 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC), being constructed at Cochin Shipyard, will finally be "launched in a few months" now after some delay to ensure it's ready by 2015 or so.

India aims to have two "carrier battle or strike groups" (CBGs), with their accompanying fighters, patrol aircraft, destroyers, submarines frigates and tankers, by 2015. Incidentally, the US has 11 CBGs to project power around the globe.

"Vikramaditya will give us serious maritime strike capabilities for the first time. With mid-air refuelling and double the combat radius of operations as well as BVR (beyond visual range) and guided anti-ship missiles, smart bombs and rockets, MiG-29Ks will provide a four-fold capability jump over Sea Harriers," said an officer.

Navy has already inducted 11 of the 45 MiG-29K fighters ordered from Russia for over $2 billion. India, of course, will now get Vikramaditya in early-2013 after agreeing to the revised refit cost of $2.33 billion after three years of bitter wrangling with Russia since the earlier agreement inked in January 2004 had earmarked only $974 million for it.

"Vikramaditya should begin sailing by the end of this year after steaming and basin trials. Extensive sea-trials will follow thereafter. Over 150 Indian officers and sailors are already in Russia for training. The next batch will go in January," he said.

India not worried about China's aircraft carrier - Times Of India

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The actual work and support from the govt started after 2008..and they rolled out first ac after 1 year..and now it has more than 1700 flights without any crash

so keep checking b4 writing something.

---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 AM ----------



no..just prototype...happy now..
ok..only in discussion..now more happy..

It requires 28 years to build a Mig-21 equivalent fighter isn't anything to be proud of, isn't it?

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

Its no different with the acquisition of new weaponry in the U.S. F22, F35, etc.

I didn't expect that you would compare your own superpower nation to someone like India.

You shouldn't lower your own status.

 

[pmukherjee]

This article is purely from an Indian view point, understandably so since it has been written by an Indian. We worry about the Chinese because they are a threat to us. Now, if we were to look at this aspect from the Chinese perspective, things would be different. We are not a threat to the Chinese, they are vastly superior to us militarily. So where Chinese threats lie? The greatest threat to China is the US. The second biggest threat is Russia. These countries can cause serious damage to China's interests. There is presently an ongoing detente between Russia and China as business interests are converging and also common enemy, the US keeps them together on most international issues. But Russian economy has come out of the post Soviet collapse morass and high energy prices have given the Russian surplus cash. Russia is modernising its military at a fast pace, rebuilding its navy, adding teeth to its air force, reforming and rearming the army. Russian leadership is strong and resolute, the state intelligence apparatus keeps detractors and political opponents in line. Russia, when it moves into top gear is a real juggernaut. The Chinese know this and despite all the smiles and the hand shakes, China keeps a wary eye on its long borders with Russia. The US? Is the enemy no 1. And it is in your face slam bang in the South and East China seas. US super carriers are a regular feature here. As if the awesome firepower that accompanies an US supercarrier was not enough, tens of nuclear powered Los Angeles class and Virginia class submarines laden with Tomahawks patrol the western Pacific. The US also has permanent bases in Japan, Philippines and South Korea, all within striking distance of mainland China. So there is real Chinese concern here. They are really worried about the Americans. That takes care of enemies no 1 and 2. Is India the no 3? No way. My guess is that this position belongs to Japan. Though still under a self imposed mandate to restrict offensive weapons and capabilities, Japan has a surprisingly powerful military and a very respectable defence budget. But mainly, it is Japan's industrial and technological prowess that will make it possible to arm itself very rapidly when the time comes. Moreover, the US and Japan will definitely be on the same side if war with China breaks out, so that makes things easier for Japan as they don't have to go it alone.

Having analysed the likely threat perception of China, let us now come back to the topic of the thread and look afresh at the issue of China acquiring 3 carriers by 2016 and its implications to India. By 2016 India would have at least 2 carriers Vikramaditya and Vikrant. Between the two of them, they can field a minimum of 4-5 squadrons of Mig 29Ks or other alternatives like Tejas naval ets. No Chinese carrier will have this kind of aviation asset till the Chinese launch their own 100.000 ton super carriers sometime by 2025. Add to this the fact that the air assets of the Indian carriers can by reinforced by fighters based on the Indian mainland and the island bases upto a distance of 4000 KMs into the Indian Ocean(with inflight refuelling). This practically rules out any conflict with the Chinese carrier in 2016 as the Chinese will be heavily outnumbered. Can the Chinese send all three carriers to Indian Ocean to threaten India? Chinese carriers steams into Hambantota or Gwadar? Hambantota is around 4800 KMs from Hainan and Gwadar nearly 6500 KMs. A carrier rushing at 25 knots from Hainan would take around 6 days to reach Gwadar. If the analysis carried out in the first para means anything, China will keep all three carriers in the China Seas to push the USN further away and deny the use of the China Seas for navigation to the Americans and also enforce the 9 dash line. Apart from sending the odd carrier on a good will visit to the Indian Ocean to be able to return to East China sea as soon as the need arises, China will have to wait till it acquires atleast 5-6 carriers to be able to spare 1-2 for the Indian ocean permanently and for that, they will need bases in the IOR. This gives us atleast till 2022-2025 to build the capability to handle 2-3 Chinese carriers in the Indian ocean.

I do not think that there is any reason for us to worry about Chinese carriers in the Indian Ocean before 2022 or 2025 by which time, we would have added our third and fourth carriers and they would be 65,000 ton CATOBARS.

Just my two paisas.

 

[Paan Singh]

It requires 28 years to build a Mig-21 equivalent fighter isn't anything to be proud of, isn't it?

i told you to see before writing,and this has been explained millions time here.sorry..no spoon feeding for now.you can go to any extent.I dont want to derail thread further.

 

[Oldman1]

It requires 28 years to build a Mig-21 equivalent fighter isn't anything to be proud of, isn't it?

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------



I didn't expect that you would compare your own superpower nation to someone like India.

You shouldn't lower your own status.

Comparing on how long it takes to acquire new weapons based on superpower status is kinda weird. Don't know how you think that way.

 

[Paan Singh]

Message to chinese..

plz try to solve south china sea correctly then make a drive into indian ocean.This is ours and we r dominant there.Try indian navy anytime there.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Comparing on how long it takes to acquire new weapons based on superpower status is kinda weird. Don't know how you think that way.

The F-22 Raptor is the pioneer of the 5th gen fighter. Of course, it would require a lot of time to explore in this domain.

Whereas LCA Tejas is only a reinvention of the good ole Mig-21.

I don't think there is anything comparable between these two, and your comparison is an embarrassment to your own nation.

 

[Oldman1]

The F-22 Raptor is the pioneer of the 5th gen fighter. Of course, it would require a lot of time to explore in this domain.

Whereas LCA Tejas is only a reinvention of the good ole Mig-21.

I don't think there is anything comparable between these two, and your comparison is an embarrassment to your own nation.

Just like you said it takes time, no matter what platform it is. Thank you.

 

[deckingraj]

I agree that this incredible indian mission is futile but then its their money to waste if they want

Mind sharing your logic after which you concluded this???? I hope the logic doesn't start and end at - It's China so good..It's India so bad...

 

[applesauce]

Message to chinese..

plz try to solve south china sea correctly then make a drive into indian ocean.This is ours and we r dominant there.Try indian navy anytime there.

already hanging around the indian ocean on a long term bases with the anti piracy missions, and no u are by no means dominant there not by a LOOONNNGGGG shot, the USN is

 

[ao333]

Message to chinese..

plz try to solve south china sea correctly then make a drive into indian ocean.This is ours and we r dominant there.Try indian navy anytime there.

I think the issue here is that Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangledesh and Myamnar want the Chinese to dominante the Indian ocean or at least co-dominate it.

 

[qwerrty]

why would china want to conquer a billion starving naked indians?

 

[SinoChallenger]

This article is purely from an Indian view point, understandably so since it has been written by an Indian. We worry about the Chinese because they are a threat to us. Now, if we were to look at this aspect from the Chinese perspective, things would be different. We are not a threat to the Chinese, they are vastly superior to us militarily. So where Chinese threats lie? The greatest threat to China is the US. The second biggest threat is Russia. These countries can cause serious damage to China's interests. There is presently an ongoing detente between Russia and China as business interests are converging and also common enemy, the US keeps them together on most international issues. But Russian economy has come out of the post Soviet collapse morass and high energy prices have given the Russian surplus cash. Russia is modernising its military at a fast pace, rebuilding its navy, adding teeth to its air force, reforming and rearming the army. Russian leadership is strong and resolute, the state intelligence apparatus keeps detractors and political opponents in line. Russia, when it moves into top gear is a real juggernaut. The Chinese know this and despite all the smiles and the hand shakes, China keeps a wary eye on its long borders with Russia. The US? Is the enemy no 1. And it is in your face slam bang in the South and East China seas. US super carriers are a regular feature here. As if the awesome firepower that accompanies an US supercarrier was not enough, tens of nuclear powered Los Angeles class and Virginia class submarines laden with Tomahawks patrol the western Pacific. The US also has permanent bases in Japan, Philippines and South Korea, all within striking distance of mainland China. So there is real Chinese concern here. They are really worried about the Americans. That takes care of enemies no 1 and 2. Is India the no 3? No way. My guess is that this position belongs to Japan. Though still under a self imposed mandate to restrict offensive weapons and capabilities, Japan has a surprisingly powerful military and a very respectable defence budget. But mainly, it is Japan's industrial and technological prowess that will make it possible to arm itself very rapidly when the time comes. Moreover, the US and Japan will definitely be on the same side if war with China breaks out, so that makes things easier for Japan as they don't have to go it alone.

Having analysed the likely threat perception of China, let us now come back to the topic of the thread and look afresh at the issue of China acquiring 3 carriers by 2016 and its implications to India. By 2016 India would have at least 2 carriers Vikramaditya and Vikrant. Between the two of them, they can field a minimum of 4-5 squadrons of Mig 29Ks or other alternatives like Tejas naval ets. No Chinese carrier will have this kind of aviation asset till the Chinese launch their own 100.000 ton super carriers sometime by 2025. Add to this the fact that the air assets of the Indian carriers can by reinforced by fighters based on the Indian mainland and the island bases upto a distance of 4000 KMs into the Indian Ocean(with inflight refuelling). This practically rules out any conflict with the Chinese carrier in 2016 as the Chinese will be heavily outnumbered. Can the Chinese send all three carriers to Indian Ocean to threaten India? Chinese carriers steams into Hambantota or Gwadar? Hambantota is around 4800 KMs from Hainan and Gwadar nearly 6500 KMs. A carrier rushing at 25 knots from Hainan would take around 6 days to reach Gwadar. If the analysis carried out in the first para means anything, China will keep all three carriers in the China Seas to push the USN further away and deny the use of the China Seas for navigation to the Americans and also enforce the 9 dash line. Apart from sending the odd carrier on a good will visit to the Indian Ocean to be able to return to East China sea as soon as the need arises, China will have to wait till it acquires atleast 5-6 carriers to be able to spare 1-2 for the Indian ocean permanently and for that, they will need bases in the IOR. This gives us atleast till 2022-2025 to build the capability to handle 2-3 Chinese carriers in the Indian ocean.

I do not think that there is any reason for us to worry about Chinese carriers in the Indian Ocean before 2022 or 2025 by which time, we would have added our third and fourth carriers and they would be 65,000 ton CATOBARS.

Just my two paisas.

You are right that PLA is vastly superior to India. Russia is a friend and ally. It is not the Soviet Union. China is much more likely to go to war against Japan than against Russia. But you fail to realize that our industrial capacity is why PLA is vastly superior to India.

We have two indigenous carriers under construction now. To be launched in 2012 and 2015. We have advanced destroyers Type 052D (equivalent to Arleigh Burke) under construction now. China will have 3 fully-modern carrier battle groups by 2015.

India on the other hand is completely dependent on foreign arms. You have only WW2 era ships with 1980's era weapons. You have lots of grand plans to build 5, 6 or even 10 carriers. But let's get real...... you would be lucky to get the Gorshkov by 2015 along with a few more Shivalik-class frigate.

Setting aside US for the moment, China can easily enter Indian Ocean and defeat IN with its battlegroups by end of this decade.

 

[raavan]

be very careful while trying to checkmate India since now India has the best chess players

 

[SpArK]

a3 a5 d5 d4 Nf6 c4 .......... pawns got pawned and rooks are exchanged and its a stalemate.