China/Pakistan/India - Was Nehru smarter than Modi?

[INDIC]

What, you mean calling us by the same racial slurs you use on NE Indians, like "dirty ch*nk"?

Well, that's old news. It's too commonly used by Indians to mean anything anymore.

you have gone insane and useless blame. Anyway, I am quite busy these days, otherwise I would have love to do the same thing as I used to have with lot many Chinese troll.

 

[Beidou2020]

India will fight a war with Pakistan and destroy its own economic development. All foreign investor confidence will disappear as soon as a full scale war begins.

Modi is just another mass murdering genocidal thug that loves to start wars.

If Modi goes too far with Pakistan and China, India will be fighting wars on 2 fronts. China won't be as kind as 1962 to pummel the Indian army and return. This time China will view it as a golden opportunity to grab the land and keep it.

For all its development, Indian military is vastly inferior to the PLA.

India is setting itself up for complete and utter disaster fighting a 2 front war.

 

[Levina]

It is not me who calls Modi a mass murderer, it is Indians themselves.

It was Indians who connected the name "Modi" with mass murderer, and then spread it around the world so that the two terms have become synonymous.

Hmm that must have been me..some 5-6months back.
Now I am treading that path where I'm not pro Modi neither am I against him...now its like a 60-40 situation.

And it's one of the reasons he is so popular in India, because of his genocide of Indian Muslims. India now has the 2nd largest Muslim population on Earth, and will soon be the number 1 biggest Muslim nation on Earth... so they want someone like Modi to "fix" that demographic problem before it happens.

.

Nope.
You fail to understand one thing that Modi got a majority in Indian parliament and the Modi waves still continues to get BJP victory in states which have been congress forte for long.
This kinda landlslide victory would not have been possible had only the hindius voted for him.In short he came to power because he got votes from minorities too.
The muslims of India're pretty pragmatic compared to those around the world.You would be surprised to know that BJP has a muslim wing too. Tell me i shocked you
Call it our gold fish memory but we dont want to know what Modi did in his past like they say "you're judged by what you do now and not by what you did in your past".
Modi made a few promises, the promise of making India an economic hub and atleast for now he's not reneging from his promise.And so I dont see a reason why I should not support my PM now?
For the first time atleast in my knowledge an Indian PM has given Indian army a free hand. Pakistan was forced to go to UN when they got replied back in the same coin .
Its high time India flexed it pecs and stopped taking things lying down.

Nehru came to power some 6 decades back, the situations under which he took decisions are entirely different than what it is now.This comparison is not justified at all.

 

[Developereo]

@Chinese-Dragon

I see you played a masterful stroke in this thread.
You made the Indian posters prove your point that Modi has domestic pressure to be more aggressive in his foreign policy.

As to whether his bravado -- like a teenager strutting his stuff in front of his new girlfriend -- will lead to serious military escalation with China, I don't think that will happen. If anything disrupts India's economic climate, the Indian business community will slap him back to reality so fast, he will be lucky to get a nightwatchman job in Gujarat.

In any case, I think you've proved your point.

 

[Tshering22]

Nehru was a fool and a wastrel. He focused on forward policy without any preparation. He refused to build Indian military industry and even refused imports that Russia was ready to supply, stating that we are a 'Gandhian state'. Though my state didn't formally integrate until some years later, some of the leading thinkers were apprehensive about Nehru.

Most of his 'achievements' in strategic sphere had nothing to do with his intelligence. He was an idiot whose smart work was all done by his deputy, Sardar Patel. From integrating the union, to getting states into one fold under one system and finally pressing the PM to increase militarization; everything was done by Patel.

PM Modi is simply a re-incarnation of Sardar Patel.

It is because of Nehru and his masters' (mountbatten and gandhi) myopic view that India almost collapsed, save Patel's intervention everywhere).

@Chinese-Dragon

I see you played a masterful stroke in this thread.
You made the Indian posters prove your point that Modi has domestic pressure to be more aggressive in his foreign policy.

As to whether his bravado -- like a teenager strutting his stuff in front of his new girlfriend -- will lead to serious military escalation with China, I don't think that will happen. If anything disrupts India's economic climate, the Indian business community will slap him back to reality so fast, he will be lucky to get a nightwatchman job in Gujarat.

In any case, I think you've proved your point.

Hardly.

He was voted on three premises:

1- Strong economic progress & job creation through boosting manufacturing and research
2- Stronger militarization and deft foreign policy (something missing since PM Vajpayee's exit).
3- Education, healthcare and infrastructure investment boost.

And while he is under 'pressure' from people here (hardly to be honest, because he IS the very person what people wanted already), the same 'pressure' was given to the previous banana regime under MMS and his Owner. What did they do?

That's the difference.

Chinese Dragon has simply highlighted the fact that Nehru seemed more favorable in front of a more aggressive China and a relentless Pakistani Military (not Pakistan as a country who doesn't want violence). Which is exactly what made you and China very comfortable in the last 10 years as you were getting Nehru's dosage in MMS.

However, yes, PM Modi is no Nehru and that is the way we want it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

@Chinese-Dragon

I see you played a masterful stroke in this thread.
You made the Indian posters prove your point that Modi has domestic pressure to be more aggressive in his foreign policy.

As to whether his bravado -- like a teenager strutting his stuff in front of his new girlfriend -- will lead to serious military escalation with China, I don't think that will happen. If anything disrupts India's economic climate, the Indian business community will slap him back to reality so fast, he will be lucky to get a nightwatchman job in Gujarat.

In any case, I think you've proved your point.

I have another point beyond that as well.

The Indian union is held together only by the idea of "unity in diversity".

Once the Indian Muslims no longer believe in that idea, and their population becomes large enough, that will be Partition 2.0.

And what better way to break that trust, than the Indian people voluntarily electing a mass murderer of Indian Muslims. That is breaking the very foundation of their union.

And it's not our fault either, we didn't force them to elect Modi. They did it themselves.

I agree Modi may not want a direct war with us, but that may be out of his hands. Once his policy becomes assertive enough, he (like Nehru) may force us to defend our sovereignty against what appears to be another Forward policy.

Domestic nationalist sentiment in China is the only force stronger than the Chinese government, in my opinion it is stronger in China than in most other countries.

Domestic pressure won't let either side back down, and since we have the overwhelming advantage, all we have to do is wait for them to make a "mistake". They will make the first move (on purpose or by accident) just like before.

Of course, Modi could avoid a conflict by acting like a rational human being, but the chances of that seem low.

 

[Developereo]

He was voted on three premises:

The core expectation is that Modi, unlike his rivals, will make India proud by being more assertive, more decisive and more forceful on all issues, domestic and foreign.

Once the Indian Muslims no longer believe in that idea, and their population becomes large enough, that will be Partition 2.0.

I don't think that will happen.

Indian Muslims have no political power in India.

All they have is numbers, but those numbers are deceptive; they don't translate into any kind of economic or political clout. Whatever power Indian Muslims think they enjoy is at the behest of Hindus and secularists, neither of which will support any Muslim demands for separation.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I don't think that will happen.

Indian Muslims have no political power in India.

All they have is numbers, but those numbers are deceptive; they don't translate into any kind of economic or political clout. Whatever power Indian Muslims think they enjoy is at the behest of Hindus and secularists, neither of which will support any Muslim demands for separation.

Not yet.

But there is only so much you can do against such vast numbers.

In China for instance, Uyghurs + Tibetans combined make up less than 1% of our total population, even their own remote areas are dominated by a Han ethnic majority. So even if these minorities "buy out" of the idea of China, it is not a real threat to the basis of the Chinese nation.

China is overwhelmingly dominated by Han Chinese, as Pakistan is overwhelmingly dominated by Pakistani Muslims. Whereas India is highly divided in terms of demographics.

Despite what India might claim, their union is much more fragile than ours. Exponentially more, I would say, due to their divided demographics. Especially once Indian Muslims reach 30-40% of their population. At that stage, I do not believe they would accept domination by Modi and his kind, however long they manage to keep stability, it will always be ready to fall like a house of cards at the slightest sneeze.

 

[Developereo]

once Indian Muslims reach 30-40% of their population.

That's simply not going to happen. Not in the next 100 years.
Muslims are less than 15% of the population, with no power, and that's not going to change much in the coming decades.

India's diversity may have an Achilles' heel but it's not Muslims; it's the economic gap between rich and poor. Other countries have the rich/poor divide but, in India, as you mentioned, the different ethnic and linguistic factors exacerbate the problem.

India's stability in the long tun will depend on how this economic divide is handled.

P.S. Anyway, that's probably getting a bit off-topic.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That's simply not going to happen. Not in the next 100 years.
Muslims are less than 15% of the population, with no power, and that's not going to change much in the coming decades.

India's diversity may have an Achilles' heel but it's not Muslims; it's the economic gap between rich and poor. Other countries have the rich/poor divide but, in India, as you mentioned, the different ethnic and linguistic factors exacerbate the problem.

India's stability in the long tun will depend on how this economic divide is handled.

P.S. Anyway, that's probably getting a bit off-topic.

I appreciate your insight as always. Though personally, I have to say that I think Modi is the first step on an inevitable chain.

The British unfortunately were very bad about how they drew and created countries.

Just look at the border between Sudan and Egpyt for example, it's a perfect line and a perfect right angle. As if the British just picked up a ruler, and drew a random line.

Sudan of course split, it was never feasible to have a Black Christian south and an Arab Muslim north, that was simply a doomed British project.

Other British drawn lines such as the borders of Syria and Iraq have already de facto been broken, the controlled and administrated territory of IS covers large portions of what was once Syria and Iraq. As of now, new countries.

India already split before, in the first partition. Another badly drawn line by the British. But the 1947 partition line was also drawn by the British (or people working for the British), and the politics of the subcontinent are pointing towards the fact that it was again, a badly drawn line. Not just Indian Muslims but also Northeast Indians who are called "ch*nkis" by regular Indians, and possibly even southern Indians who think the Indian government helped the Sri Lankan government kill their fellow Tamils. Or Eastern Indians who share a similar problem to those in the NE, but are also swept with Maoists.

These all form massive demographic chunks, again a problem caused by having no truly dominant demographic group. The events playing out in the Middle East right now are not dissimilar in nature. Countries with borders drawn by the British, with large demographic groups at odds with each other. What did they think was going to happen?

I should say that Pakistan and Bangladesh were lucky to have split off the original British ruled-subcontinent, since they now ended up with dominant demographic majorities (Pakistani Muslim and Bengladeshi Muslim respectively), just as China has one dominant demographic group (Han Chinese who share culture/religion/ethnicity).

@Horus

 

[Vinod2070]

What an interesting thread. People with no friggin idea about India "discussing" as if they really know something.

Leave India to Indians. We will take care of it. We don't need ignorant people to tell us about our own country.

Focus on how you can claim entire seas and take over the entire world for the Ummah.

 

[SledgeHammer]

@Chinese-Dragon

I see you played a masterful stroke in this thread.
You made the Indian posters prove your point that Modi has domestic pressure to be more aggressive in his foreign policy.

As to whether his bravado -- like a teenager strutting his stuff in front of his new girlfriend -- will lead to serious military escalation with China, I don't think that will happen. If anything disrupts India's economic climate, the Indian business community will slap him back to reality so fast, he will be lucky to get a nightwatchman job in Gujarat.

In any case, I think you've proved your point.

Oh!! @Chinese-Dragon didn't know that his mindless trolling is actually a master stroke!! He was rather busy proving that claimed Chinese high IQ is actually fudged data. Hence you got a positive rating from him for your attempt to glorify stupidity.

 

[Vinod2070]

He was voted on three premises:
1- Strong economic progress & job creation through boosting manufacturing and research
2- Stronger militarization and deft foreign policy (something missing since PM Vajpayee's exit).
3- Education, healthcare and infrastructure investment boost.

Unfortunately most Pakistanis have a strange kind of obsession with Modi and it is impossible for them to look at him (or India) objectively.

They call him "mass murderer" for a riot! Their own Qaid led the almost complete ethnic cleansing of minorities from Pakistan, that was organized and executed by Muslims guards of the league!

They have no qualms about the 1971 genocide of 3 millions and they talk about a riot that claimed 1000 odd lives!

Their current PM has ties to the Lashkar-E-Jhangvi that has killed tens of times more Shias than the Gujarat riots.

Leaving aside what is happening all over the Ummah. They still need to obsess with us as if we have something to do with them!

In China, the 1000 figure won't even register. They have their numbers in tens (or hundreds) of millions for genocides and mass murders.

 

[Judge]

Despite what India might claim, their union is much more fragile than ours. Exponentially more, I would say, due to their divided demographics. Especially once Indian Muslims reach 30-40% of their population. At that stage, I do not believe they would accept domination by Modi and his kind, however long they manage to keep stability, it will always be ready to fall like a house of cards at the slightest sneeze.

The peak Muslim population in the India in the entire century will be around 20%.

And developereo is right. The Muslims are simply not a threat to the Union in that sense. Indian Muslims are substantially different from the global Muslims and the Pakistani Muslims in terms of their outlook. And their numbers will never exceed 20%.

The ethnic and linguistic divide has been steadily reducing over the last two decades with an exponential rise in mobility of people and the rise of the middle class. Intermixing between ethnicities is now common in the urban areas.

The biggest threat will be the gap between rich and poor.The have's and have nots.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What an interesting thread. People with no friggin idea about India "discussing" as if they really know something.

Leave India to Indians. We will take care of it. We don't need ignorant people to tell us about our own country.

Focus on how you can claim entire seas and take over the entire world for the Ummah.

Well you guys have the 2nd largest Muslim population in the world (soon to be number 1 largest Muslim population in the world), so shouldn't it be you guys going to fight for the "Ummah"? Like all those Indians now in Syria?

We'll stay out of that BS. We have zero demographic concerns, since the percentage population of minorities is so low, and their population growth rates are stable (partly due to government policy), so even in 10-20 years their percentage of the population will be the same, or even shrink.

India is long past that bridge, they are already fighting for the position of the number 1 largest Muslim population in the world.