China/Pakistan/India - Was Nehru smarter than Modi?

[Chinese-Dragon]

Do you rely on American definitions and call Iran, NK, Syria etc as rouge states?

Of course not, as I explained before, I do not consider any country to be a "Rogue state".

Since as of now, they are all trading with us, and not doing Forward policies against us (yet).

With an emphasis on the (yet).

Read the book I suggested in the previous post. Let's get real and not "technical".

"Technically" you are their higher than, deeper than and sweeter than... Doesn't seem to work in reality though.

Maybe, but I have a feeling that Sino-Pakistani coordination will be of a more amenable nature, if Modi does indeed repeat the Forward policy against us.

For one thing, we'll be the one doing all the heavy fighting, not them... so they have nothing to lose.

As for America, their feelings towards Pakistan are both of conflicting opinions... and absolute need. They need Pakistan for their regional plans, especially with regards to Afghanistan next door.

 

[INDIC]

@Ravi Nair watch out, your good guy Chinese-Dragon is back to old mode of picking up fight with Indians.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

@Ravi Nair watch out, your good guy Chinese-Dragon is back to old mode of picking up fight with Indians.

I don't get how me wanting to defend my country, is somehow "picking a fight" with Indians.

 

[INDIC]

Maybe, but I have a feeling that Sino-Pakistani coordination will be of a more amenable nature, if Modi does indeed repeat the Forward policy against us.
For one thing, we'll be the one doing all the heavy fighting, not them... so they have nothing to lose.
As for America, their feelings towards Pakistan are both of conflicting opinions... and absolute need. They need Pakistan for their regional plans, especially with regards to Afghanistan next door.

Not true, China is in the mood of fighting with neighbours that's why sending fishing boats to Senkakus, building tents after crossing LAC and making tourists sites in disputed South China sea.

 

[Vinod2070]

Of course not, as I explained before, I do not consider any country to be a "Rogue state".

Since as of now, they are all trading with us, and not doing Forward policies against us (yet).

With an emphasis on the (yet).



Maybe, but I have a feeling that Sino-Pakistani coordination will be of a more amenable nature, if Modi does indeed repeat the Forward policy against us.

For one thing, we'll be the one doing all the heavy fighting, not them... so they have nothing to lose.

As for America, their feelings towards Pakistan are both of conflicting opinions... and absolute need. They need Pakistan for their regional plans, especially with regards to Afghanistan next door.

Where is this "forward policy" thing coming from?

I have not seen anyone in India use it at all? Nor in any media from anywhere?

Is this a topic in even Chinese media?

I personally think Modi will be able to move forward in relations with China and our border issues will move towards resolution and not towards conflict.

 

[INDIC]

I don't get how me wanting to defend my country, is somehow "picking a fight" with Indians.

start a thread and start fighting with Indians and give a cool fancy sounding name called defending.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Where is this "forward policy" thing coming from?

I have not seen anyone in India use it at all? Nor in any media from anywhere?

Is this a topic in even Chinese media?

I personally think Modi will be able to move forward in relations with China and our border issues will move towards resolution and not towards conflict.

I'm talking about the very recent Sino-Indian border clash when our leader Xi Jinping was visiting India.

And the much talked about "new assertive posture" by the Modi government.

Why would Modi start a border clash when our leader is visiting his country? Isn't that a bit screwed up?

Not to mention Modi refusing to issue a joint statement supporting the "One China" policy? Or sending his President to Vietnam a day before Xi Jinping's visit to India?

 

[Vinod2070]

I'm talking about the very recent Sino-Indian border clash when our leader Xi Jinping was visiting India.

And the much talked about "new assertive posture" by the Modi government.

Why would Modi start a border clash when our leader is visiting his country? Isn't that a bit screwed up?

That is exactly the question we are asking? Why did Chinese troops intrude at the time your president came visiting?

The assertive part is only about respecting the LAC while a solution is found, something that both countries agree to.

Not to mention Modi refusing to issue a joint statement supporting the "One China" policy? Or sending his President to Vietnam a day before Xi Jinping's visit to India?

This is a good policy. We can't give away all our cards when the other side doesn't reciprocate. The stapled visa thing made India reconsider this stand even during the Congress' time.

It has to be give and take and that is exactly how it will be.

 

[Kloitra]

Of course not, as I explained before, I do not consider any country to be a "Rogue state".

Since as of now, they are all trading with us, and not doing Forward policies against us (yet).

With an emphasis on the (yet).

Than why do you expect us to follow the definitions of US. From our point of which other nation is greater threat to peace? Even than:

Syria and Pakistan, two nations which were hardly regarded by the United States as paragons of rectitude,[3] avoided being added to the list because the United States hoped that Damascus could play a constructive role in the Arab-Israeli peace process, and because Washington had long maintained close relations with Islamabad—a vestige of the Cold War.[3]

 

[jha]

So OP got a new ( or, old ) memo. @SarthakGanguly : Good Job using Baniya neeti..

OT : The best scenario the mighty PLA can dream of is marching to Delhi with Higher.. Deeper.. and Sweeter ally. All the best to them...

 

[Kloitra]

I'm talking about the very recent Sino-Indian border clash when our leader Xi Jinping was visiting India.

And the much talked about "new assertive posture" by the Modi government.

Why would Modi start a border clash when our leader is visiting his country? Isn't that a bit screwed up?

Not to mention Modi refusing to issue a joint statement supporting the "One China" policy? Or sending his President to Vietnam a day before Xi Jinping's visit to India?

You are mistaken about this assertion. That simply meas not to show the cowering attitude of previous govt which lets India get bullied. In Pakistan's case, reply bullet by bullet. China is responsible, and only lets its soldiers set up tents within Indian boundary. Tit-for-tat. If you have seen the videos, in one, while Indian soldiers were pushing the Chinese ones back, they shared cigarettes. The Sino-Indian border is peaceful, and India would not take any initiative to change it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That is exactly the question we are asking? Why did Chinese troops intrude at the time your president came visiting?

No it was the other way around.

This is a good policy. We can't give away all our cards when the other side doesn't reciprocate. The stapled visa thing made India reconsider this stand even during the Congress' time.

It has to be give and take and that is exactly how it will be.

Well then, I guess we agree.

Modi has his "new assertive posture", and so China (and hopefully Pakistan) must make plans for the repeat of another Forward Policy, and even if Modi doesn't want it consciously, neither did Nehru. But he started one anyway.

We are not going to drop the ball this time, anyone who wants to start a conflict is welcome to face China at the peak of our power in the past 200 years, with a manufacturing base that could outlast any other, pumping out infinite amounts of weapon platforms, backed by currency reserves larger than the rest of the world combined.

Of course I wish to avoid war if possible, but sometimes the other side makes that impossible. And we must defend ourselves with everything we have.

Than why do you expect us to follow the definitions of US. From our point of which other nation is greater threat to peace? Even than:

You seriously expect me to agree with your claim that one of our closest allies (Pakistan) is a rogue state?

Even if I somehow believed something so ridiculous, I wouldn't even say it out of common courtesy.

The Pakistani government is VERY amenable to our opinions and our goals. How could we possibly have a problem with that.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I don't make a distinction between "rogue" states and "civilized" states. It's not my place to make such a declaration.

Anyway these are the ones considered to be Rogue states by America's declaration:

Rogue state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When America says "Oh the Axis of Evil are rogue states, we must sanction Iran/Syria/Iraq/etc." well that's not how it works for us.

If Iran sells oil to us and deals with us like a civilized state then to us, it is a civilized state. Same with everyone else, even those countries that have geopolitical interests which are in direct conflict with ours.

And these nation-states, being civilized actors, should theoretically act based on reason and logic. Just that some want to push their luck, believing strongly that they have made the right calculation, when they have not.

They are rogue as per USA. Not us. For us the equations are different. You need not subscribe to our point of view.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

They are rogue as per USA. Not us. For us the equations are different. You need not subscribe to our point of view.

Well, who even uses the term "Rogue state" apart from America and their vassals?

I'm sure you can tell, but China does massive trade with all the countries that are listed by America as "Rogue states", and plenty of trade with those who are not as well.

If you trade with us, don't try to attack our sovereignty, then why would we have a problem with ANY country.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Because those policies of shooting on the border at not aimed at us (yet). But Indian troops are so used to firing on the border, a new assertive posture from Modi would surely embolden them.

Jeez All this discussion, the thread, the time typing all this, the debates - all based on the hope that 'Indian troops may get emboldened' and all that!

All this while I thought India forces have fired upon Chinese positions.

Well, since they have not, your thinking is .... well, mildly put - your thinking. From my end - case closed.