China/Pakistan/India - Was Nehru smarter than Modi?

[Joeblow]

You're right, the Chinese people are not responsible for any wrong actions carried out by the Chinese government, since we do not directly elect the leader (though I do vote).

But the Indian people willingly, and with full knowledge of his crimes, elected a mass murderer. So they are responsible for what he has done (mass murder) and what he will do.

There is the difference.

Who did he murder?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Who did he murder?

I'm sure you know that the first thought that comes up when the name "Modi" is spoken, is mass murder. Both in India and the rest of the world who has any knowledge of the region.

His targets were from the community of 200 million "Indians".

 

[Pride]

You're right, the Chinese people are not responsible for any wrong actions carried out by the Chinese government, since we do not directly elect the leader (though I do vote).

But the Indian people willingly, and with full knowledge of his crimes, purposely elected a mass murderer. So they are responsible for what he has done (mass murder) and what he will do.

There is the difference.

What is Crime? Our perception or Judicial Process? If he is having any cases then it would be easy not to chose him but he came clean even after so much scrutiny.

 

[Kloitra]

I think you missed most of the posts in this thread, including the ones in the first page.

Reuters quoted both Indian and Pakistani officials, who agree that it is Modi's "new assertive posture" that is causing an escalation on the border issues.

Who changed the status quo? India did.

That is because till now, whenever Pakistan starts shooting, India tried to calm it down using different channels. The beheadings you quoted earlier were also done on the Indian soldiers, India didn't responded back. This time, India gave a tit-for-tat response, and it suddenly became India's fault?

It is India, that is changing the status quo. It is India that is trying to start a war, just like before.

The difference is that now, even the Indian Army itself has admitted "India cannot hope to match China by any conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing larger every day".

Nehru was clever, he attacked when we were at our weakest point.

Modi on the other hand is trying the same against us, when we are at our strongest point.

That means you have more to loose now then before, don't you?

I'm sure you know that the first thought that comes up when the name "Modi" is spoken, is mass murder. Both in India and the rest of the world who has any knowledge of the region.

His targets were from the community of 200 million "Indians".

And what was it that he did? He was barely a CM for 2 months when all that happened. He has actually managed the most peaceful decade of that state!

 

[Vinod2070]

Being a responsible state is a perception that people have of their own country, it is very much subjective depending on the viewpoint. And for the people on the other side of Modi's "new aggressive posture", the opinions might be the opposite.

While you are doing well and we understand and enjoy your posts, do you think claiming entire seas and island chains based on some supposed ancient history falls in the definition of "being responsible"?

Regarding bloodshed, would you say that your train station knives and other such events (where terrorists killed innocent civilians) etc. make you a violent and irresponsible state?

 

[Luca1]

I'm sure you know that the first thought that comes up when the name "Modi" is spoken, is mass murder. Both in India and the rest of the world who has any knowledge of the region.

His targets were from the community of 200 million "Indians".

Wow, and the Indians were calling Churchill mass murderer. When it's Modi that committed the Indian Holocaust against Muslims. No wonder the Muslims are rising up against the Hindu atrocities.

 

[Vinod2070]

I'm sure you know that the first thought that comes up when the name "Modi" is spoken, is mass murder. Both in India and the rest of the world who has any knowledge of the region.

His targets were from the community of 200 million "Indians".

He is as much a murderer as your government for "allowing" the Xinjiang terrorists to kill civilians.

But surely less than Mao who was directly responsible for the actions leading to 50 millions deaths.

He can be accused of not being able to control a riot when he was just a few days into his job and the events proved too much to handle. It was nothing like the Bangladesh genocide and rapine for example that was perpetrated by Pakistan and supported and cheered by China from the sideline.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

While you are doing well and we understand and enjoy your posts, do you think claiming entire seas and island chains based on some supposed ancient history falls in the definition of "being responsible"?

Regarding bloodshed, would you say that your train station knives and other such events (where terrorists killed innocent civilians) etc. make you a violent and irresponsible state?

You know on the Global Terrorism Index, India is ranked the 3rd in the world?

Bomb blasts: India 3rd most dangerous country in the world! - News Oneindia

The data reveals that India was rocked by 212 bomb blasts in 2013 while Afghanistan suffered 108 blasts last year.

India suffered twice as many bomb blasts in 2013, compared to Afghanistan! Now that is crazy, and earns you the title of 3rd place on the Global Terrorism Index.

So that's not really an area of comparison here, China is not even ranked in the top 20.

Granted we have our own problems with Islamic extremism in the far western province of Xinjiang, but even Uyghurs and Tibetans combined only make up less than 1% of our population.

Whereas India has the 2nd highest number of Muslims in the world, and the growth rates are exploding.

----------

Of course, that's not relevant to what I said, which was cross-border bloodshed. You can say all you want, but when was the last time we shelled villages in any of our neighbouring countries? You did it a few days ago, killing 20 civilians in one go, and the bloodshed on your borders with Pakistan/Bangladesh is pretty much constant.

Hence China again... ranking FAR higher than India on the Global Peace Index.

Remember that we did not compile the Global Terrorism Index or the Global Peace Index, you can check them yourself, they are compiled by international organizations.

 

[Somras]

You're right, the Chinese people are not responsible for any wrong actions carried out by the Chinese government, since we do not directly elect the leader (though I do vote).

But the Indian people willingly, and with full knowledge of his crimes, purposely elected a mass murderer. So they are responsible for what he has done (mass murder) and what he will do.

There is the difference.

there is a difference

chinese people cant wash thier HANDS OFF saying we dont elect our leaders for any bad / wrong decision of thier leaders

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

there is a difference

chinese people cant wash thier HANDS OFF saying we dont elect our leaders for any bad / wrong decision of thier leaders

We can wash off any and all bad decisions from our leaders.

Because we didn't elect them.

But the "Indian people" did voluntarily and with full knowledge, elect a mass murderer, thus they are responsible for what he has done, and what he will do.

Ironically, we turned out with a great leader like Xi Jinping. Who will most likely bring China another 10 years of world-beating economic growth. Definitely not a murderer.

 

[Vinod2070]

You know on the Global Terrorism Index, India is ranked the 3rd in the world?

Bomb blasts: India 3rd most dangerous country in the world! - News Oneindia



India suffered twice as many bomb blasts in 2013, compared to Afghanistan! Now that is crazy, and earns you the title of 3rd place on the Global Terrorism Index.

So that's not really an area of comparison here, China is not even ranked in the top 20.

Granted we have our own problems with Islamic extremism in the far western province of Xinjiang, but even Uyghurs and Tibetans combined only make up less than 1% of our population.

Whereas India has the 2nd highest number of Muslims in the world, and the growth rates are exploding.

----------

Of course, that's not relevant to what I said, which was cross-border bloodshed. You can say all you want, but when was the last time we shelled villages in any of our neighbouring countries? You did it a few days ago, and the bloodshed on your borders with Pakistan/Bangladesh is pretty much constant.

Hence China again... ranking FAR higher than India on the Global Peace Index.

You missed the point here.

If you are targeted by terrorists and unstable, rogue states, you are the victim.

This is what we are dealing with, may be more than you.

The equivalent of what you are doing here would be if we blame China for Japan's actions on it during WW-2 for example. You were the victims there as we are the victims here and need to respond to provocations in a very measured way, the only way that seems to be understood.

Read Christine Fair's recent book on PA (Fighting to the End: The Pakistan Army's Way of War ) to understand what we are dealing with here. This is an army that doesn't consider losing half the country and 93000 surrenders as losing.

For them losing is accepting the status quo. So they will keep on doing things like Kargil even when there is a big risk og it blowing up in their face!

 

[Kloitra]

You know on the Global Terrorism Index, India is ranked the 3rd in the world?

Bomb blasts: India 3rd most dangerous country in the world! - News Oneindia



India suffered twice as many bomb blasts in 2013, compared to Afghanistan! Now that is crazy, and earns you the title of 3rd place on the Global Terrorism Index.

So that's not really an area of comparison here, China is not even ranked in the top 20.

Granted we have our own problems with Islamic extremism in the far western province of Xinjiang, but even Uyghurs and Tibetans combined only make up less than 1% of our population.

Whereas India has the 2nd highest number of Muslims in the world, and the growth rates are exploding.

----------

Of course, that's not relevant to what I said, which was cross-border bloodshed. You can say all you want, but when was the last time we shelled villages in any of our neighbouring countries? You did it a few days ago, killing 20 civilians in one go, and the bloodshed on your borders with Pakistan/Bangladesh is pretty much constant.

Hence China again... ranking FAR higher than India on the Global Peace Index.

Remember that we did not compile the Global Terrorism Index or the Global Peace Index, you can check them yourself, they are compiled by international organizations.

Despite all this, number of terrorists related deaths in India are going down, while going up in China!
India total death in 2013 - 61
China total death in 2013 - 51

India 2014 - 1
China 2014 - crossed 150

This, even after having a bigger extremist problem than you and a rouge neighbor.

My numbers are from wiki and news, feel free to correct...

But the "Indian people" did voluntarily and with full knowledge, elect a mass murderer, thus they are responsible for what he has done, and what he will do.

The mass murderer you keep talking about, what did he do actually?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You missed the point here.

If you are targeted by terrorists and unstable, rogue states, you are the victim.

This is what we are dealing with, may be more than you.

Sorry brother, but no country in our region is classified as a "Rogue state" (by the original i.e. American definition of the term), apart from maybe Iran and North Korea.

Pakistan has never been classified as a rouge state, in fact it is currently one of America's most important allies.

Maybe they don't get along, and frankly I wouldn't expect them to, but they are still technically allies.

 

[Vinod2070]

Sorry brother, but no country in our region is classified as a "Rogue state" (by the original i.e. American definition of the term), apart from maybe Iran and North Korea.

Pakistan has never been classified as a rouge state, in fact it is currently one of America's most important allies.

Maybe they don't get along, and frankly I wouldn't expect them to, but they are still technically allies.

Read the book I suggested in the previous post. Let's get real and not "technical".

"Technically" you are their higher than, deeper than and sweeter than... Doesn't seem to work in reality though.

PS: The book actually calls Pakistan a greedy state and gives a details technical definition of what a greedy state is.

 

[Kloitra]

Sorry brother, but no country in our region is classified as a "Rogue state" (by the original i.e. American definition of the term), apart from maybe Iran and North Korea.

Pakistan has never been classified as a rouge state, in fact it is currently one of America's most important allies.

Maybe they don't get along, and frankly I wouldn't expect them to, but they are still technically allies.

Do you rely on American definitions and call Iran, NK, Syria etc as rouge states?