China Might Out-Produce US On Warship Building, ‘Quality’ Couldn’t Always Win Over ‘Quantity’

[dbc]

Hi,

Thank you for bringing that out---. That is the most serious problem that the US naval be facing---.

Smart weapons---higher number of smart weapons---smart weapons with longer ranges and high high kill ratio will make the difference---.

not really, there is much more to naval warfare than "smart weapons".Here is a lesson from Iraq, during operation desert storm we discovered that the AGM-65 a smart weapon was useless in a sandstorm. We learnt and improved, the more you test your weapons, training and tactics in a real war, the more you learn and improve. Why do you think our adversaries fear the AMRAAM, it's the only air-to air missile that is tested against real maneuvering fighters like the QF-16. The design input to US weapons don't come from engineers it comes from war fighters with real war fighting experience. John Boyd a USAF pilot designed the F-16 not some boffin in General Dynamics. Besides, SMART weapons often get dumber the longer it's in the air so longer range SMART weapons give the enemy more time to detect and apply effective countermeasures.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Hi,

An excellent post---. As long as china is not too far behind in technology and can produce large amounts of equipment---the USA will have an extremely hard time over coming the adversary---.

Point in case, WW2.

The German tank was much better, by design, by manufacturing and overall quality.
The Allies used a tank that was easy to build in numbers and could get the job done.

Allies won. Germans lost.

not really, there is much more to naval warfare than "smart weapons".Here is a lesson from Iraq, during operation desert storm we discovered that the AGM-65 a smart weapon was useless in a sandstorm. We learnt and improved, the more you test your weapons, training and tactics in a real war, the more you learn and improve. Why do you think our adversaries fear the AMRAAM, it's the only air-to air missile that is tested against real maneuvering fighters like the QF-16. The design input to US weapons don't come from engineers it comes from war fighters with real war fighting experience. John Boyd a USAF pilot designed the F-16 not some boffin in General Dynamics. Besides, SMART weapons often get dumber the longer it's in the air so longer range SMART weapons give the enemy more time to detect and apply effective countermeasures.

The US has an excellent system for designing and refining. No debate there.

However lets also expand on your comment about smart weapons and how long they stay in the air.
To simplify this equation,
All war is to achieve a political objective.
Objectives are ultimately recognized on land.
Smart weapons can soften up the enemy, even destroy it to one extent to another.
but all that is just a stepping stone for your infantry to finally make the kill and
take over.

In places like the subcontinent, middle-east adversaries have land borders,
and a well planned infantry push will in most cases offset the advantage of smart weapons.

 

[jhungary]

Technically, it was Japan who screwed China first. Korea, it's a give-and-take.



You know, deep down that's not true.

shhh.........all our top brass are moron, how dare you talk about logics....

4) You forget superior institutional knowledge and excellent naval institutions to impart that knowledge. No point sending ships with poorly trained crew that will become part of a reef on first contact with the enemy.

I literally have a member ask me why each sailor would bring 40kg of stuff on a ship.....

My reply, "Sailor don't fight on a boat naked....."

Even you take 30kg or more luggage if you go on a vacation, how much stuff do you think you bring on board for a 180 day deployment??

 

[dbc]

Point in case, WW2.

The German tank was much better, by design, by manufacturing and overall quality.
The Allies used a tank that was easy to build in numbers and could get the job done.

Allies won. Germans lost.



The US has an excellent system for designing and refining. No debate there.

However lets also expand on your comment about smart weapons and how long they stay in the air.
To simplify this equation,
All war is to achieve a political objective.
Objectives are ultimately recognized on land.
Smart weapons can soften up the enemy, even destroy it to one extent to another.
but all that is just a stepping stone for your infantry to finally make the kill and
take over.

In places like the subcontinent, middle-east adversaries have land borders,
and a well planned infantry push will in most cases offset the advantage of smart weapons.

you don't just use smart weapons to 'soften up' the enemy, you use them to degrade your enemies ability to wage war. You use them to destroy bridges, factories, ports, communication,IADS and logistics.SMART weapons came into existence to improve the survivability of the air assets. Before SMART weapons, bombers had to make multiple passes and employ many more air assets to have the same effect on target of one smart weapon. A good example is the Hàm Rồng Bridge, spanning the Song Ma river. US Air Force and Navy made several attempts since 1965 to destroy it and took heavy losses. Finally in 1972, an F-4 Phantom carrying a LGB destroyed the bridge in a single pass.No nation has sufficient arsenal of SMART weapons for a prolonged campaign it's just too expensive once air superiority is established and radar, SAMS destroyed they will switch to dumb bombs.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Lol, Vietnam and ASEAN dont want to be part in your US evil plan to contain China, Philippine is still unknown and China doesnt give a shit care of its military, keep delusional, its good for you.

LOL this is why I pity you people. You guys unironically should be liberated Iraqi Freedom style. Even if millions of you dead it's a net positive.

Why do you think Vietnam is courting the US & the Philippines is letting the US back in after kicking them out?

And even friend to all, enemy to none Indonesia for the first time drastically increase their defense spending signed multiple defense agreement with multiple countries from US, Australia, Singapore what have you. And upgrading defense & patrol in the Natuna. If not for Chinese aggression?

 

[Abid123]

If it were to tackle the U.S. alone, but that wouldn't be the case when the U.S. goes to war; the rest of the West follows along with sell-out Asians.

I mean it's no like the Europeans have a choice. The truth is that they are de facto colonies of the US. When it comes to the world stage they are utterly irrelevant. I would put Iran and Turkey above any country in Europe when it comes to geopolitical relevance.

 

[etylo]

LOL this is why I pity you people. You guys unironically should be liberated Iraqi Freedom style. Even if millions of you dead it's a net positive.

Why do you think Vietnam is courting the US & the Philippines is letting the US back in after kicking them out?

And even friend to all, enemy to none Indonesia for the first time drastically increase their defense spending signed multiple defense agreement with multiple countries from US, Australia, Singapore what have you. And upgrading defense & patrol in the Natuna. If not for Chinese aggression?

Who the fk do you think you are that you evil Yankees should decide millions of Chinese to die at your will for the glorification of your evil American "democratic" agenda ? And who want your liberation just to be your slaves, LoL, go save your own a**. Such arrogant and evil Americans like you deserve to be wiped out from the earth for the good of humanity, period.

 

[beijingwalker]

I mean it's no like the Europeans have a choice. The truth is that they are de facto colonies of the US. When it comes to the world stage they are utterly irrelevant. I would put Iran and Turkey above any country in Europe when it comes to geopolitical relevance.

True

 

[Solidify]

Hi,

An excellent post---. As long as china is not too far behind in technology and can produce large amounts of equipment---the USA will have an extremely hard time over coming the adversary---.

The weird thing about America so called super power status is it NEEDS ALL NATIONS COALITION TO ATTACK any other nation.
Iraq
Syria
France Australia $90 Billion submarine deal
Afghanistan
Taiwan
Pakistan
WWII (coalition incl Russia to fight) Germans
Vietnam with help from UK, France & South Korea etc

American never fight alone. that is the difference with China or Russia.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Who the fk do you think you are that you evil Yankees should decide millions of Chinese to die at your will for the glorification of your evil American "democratic" agenda ? And who want your liberation just to be your slaves, LoL, go save your own a**. Such arrogant and evil Americans like you deserve to be wiped out from the earth for the good of humanity, period.

Maybe china should not be a piece o shi% in the first place.... You know just saying?

Chinese killed 20 Indian border troopers and never issue an apology, why do you think the indians wants you dead?

Why do you think Australia help create AUKUS?

Why do you think Vietnam wanted to join American coalition?

Why do you think Philippines actually reversed decision and invited the Americans again?

& etc,

Hint it's all china's fault.

Heck china even done the impossible. Your country pushes South Korea and Japan together:

South Koreans Have the World’s Most Negative Views of China. Why?

The explanation goes well beyond the oft-mentioned THAAD dispute.

thediplomat.com

South Korean defense paper describes Japan as close neighbor

Document says Japan is a close neighbor with which South Korea shares values and should build a future-oriented cooperative relationship.

www.japantimes.co.jp

The weird thing about America so called super power status is it NEEDS ALL NATIONS COALITION TO ATTACK any other nation.
Iraq
Syria
France Australia $90 Billion submarine deal
Afghanistan
Taiwan
Pakistan
WWII (coalition incl Russia to fight) Germans
Vietnam with help from UK, France & South Korea etc

American never fight alone. that is the difference with China or Russia.

Man this is a massive cope:

 

[rott]

That's what we call in the business begging for more increase in military funding & also stop claiming other country's territory if you don't want to be hated.

Also it's not just the americans that hate you. The japanese, South korean even they are starting to work together to contain china.

Taiwan, philippines, vietnam, more than half of ASEAN, India. I think there's more that I forgot. Point is we want you dead.

Bro, too much Clorox or what?

 

[MastanKhan]

The weird thing about America so called super power status is it NEEDS ALL NATIONS COALITION TO ATTACK any other nation.
Iraq
Syria
France Australia $90 Billion submarine deal
Afghanistan
Taiwan
Pakistan
WWII (coalition incl Russia to fight) Germans
Vietnam with help from UK, France & South Korea etc

American never fight alone. that is the difference with China or Russia.

Hi,

It is for the reason of TOTAL CONTROL & an ACCESSORY TO THE CRIME mindset of the americans---.

If america had gone by itself in AFG or Iraq---then at one time or other---these nations would have turned on america and claimed genocide of the afghans and iraqis at the hands of the americans---.

Now all of these nations have their hands dripping with the blood of the innocent---then who would call to seek justice for the dead----.

Now look at things---a country like norway---sweden are involved in the murder of innocent iraqis on one side and australia on the other side---.

No one is left to raise the voice for the innocent dead---.

Never under estimate the brutality of the americans----. There has been no bigger monster in the known world of past and present that comes close to the americans---. Be afraid---be fearful.

China & Russia are stupid----.

 

[Abid123]

Maybe china should not be a piece o shi% in the first place.... You know just saying?

Chinese killed 20 Indian border troopers and never issue an apology, why do you the indians wants you dead?

Why do you think Australia help create AUKUS?

Why do you think Vietnam wanted to join American coalition?

Why do you think Philippines actually reversed decision and invited the Americans again?

& etc,

Hint's it's all china's fault.

Heck china even done impossible. Your country pushes South Korea and Japan together:

South Koreans Have the World’s Most Negative Views of China. Why?

The explanation goes well beyond the oft-mentioned THAAD dispute.

thediplomat.com

South Korean defense paper describes Japan as close neighbor

Document says Japan is a close neighbor with which South Korea shares values and should build a future-oriented cooperative relationship.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Man this is a massive cope:

Where are you from?

 

[MastanKhan]

Point in case, WW2.

The German tank was much better, by design, by manufacturing and overall quality.
The Allies used a tank that was easy to build in numbers and could get the job done.

Allies won. Germans lost.



The US has an excellent system for designing and refining. No debate there.

However lets also expand on your comment about smart weapons and how long they stay in the air.
To simplify this equation,
All war is to achieve a political objective.
Objectives are ultimately recognized on land.
Smart weapons can soften up the enemy, even destroy it to one extent to another.
but all that is just a stepping stone for your infantry to finally make the kill and
take over.

In places like the subcontinent, middle-east adversaries have land borders,
and a well planned infantry push will in most cases offset the advantage of smart weapons.

Hi,

For the US---it is the economic destruction of an enemy like china---.

It is not interested in feet on the ground in mainland china---.

not really, there is much more to naval warfare than "smart weapons".Here is a lesson from Iraq, during operation desert storm we discovered that the AGM-65 a smart weapon was useless in a sandstorm. We learnt and improved, the more you test your weapons, training and tactics in a real war, the more you learn and improve. Why do you think our adversaries fear the AMRAAM, it's the only air-to air missile that is tested against real maneuvering fighters like the QF-16. The design input to US weapons don't come from engineers it comes from war fighters with real war fighting experience. John Boyd a USAF pilot designed the F-16 not some boffin in General Dynamics. Besides, SMART weapons often get dumber the longer it's in the air so longer range SMART weapons give the enemy more time to detect and apply effective countermeasures.

Hi,

Thank you---& agreed---.

There are no sandstorms in battle fronts in china---. It is all conventional surroundings and well trained in weather conditions---.
Our first effort with JF17 was on similar footings---.

 

[dbc]

There are no sandstorms in battle fronts in china---. It is all conventional surroundings and well trained in weather conditions---.
Our first effort with JF17 was on similar footings---.

says who? that's a sandstorm in China.

besides there is also smog and fog both degrade sensor performance if not properly engineered. This is why it isn't so easy to achieve all weather capability as some with no relevant battlefield experience may think.