China May Deliver 300 of Type 99 Main Battle Tank to Pakistan

[Manidabest]

They used that POLICE against Palestinians,, which obviously are not THERE PEOPLE,,,
You get your tanks rolling in liberty round about or pindi sadar for police duty and that for me is a lot of things going waste.

Please use some logical thinking.

If ever we get new tank (and by that i am not talking about non-existent AK-2 or 3 or 4, and unsuitable ALTAY like you mentioned) for army, AND IF it is is numbers that we will be able to retire some old tanks with some little life and potential left in them (HIGHLY UNLIKELY) then these would/should go to FC, Rangers AT BEST and that too for anti-insurgency missions in western north western part. Writing it down even that too do not seem suitable to me but anyway i am not worried but i also do not see this happening anytime.

yea well my point just dont waste them ...just use them till the last

 

[Signalian]

With T 99 in PA, a 6th type of tank will enter into the arsenal. It was probably a better idea to get more T 80 unless AK II shares many commonalities with T 99.

First the drivers will be trained on simulators. I think the T 59 II regiments will get these new tanks inducted in them. 99% of armoured warfare is driving the tank and taking it where it needs to go.

It will take 6 months atleast for the drivers to get a proper hands on training on T 99.
Then the manoeuvring excercises will be conducted to check the best utilisation of these tanks in any given circumstances.

I think the 6th armoured div is equipped with AZ, addition of T 99 in its regiments will make the div more potent.

 

[Signalian]

who will protect them there basically isn't a strong SAM defenece network, the army still uses stingers, SA-7s, AAA batteries, its just pointless, the airfoce is too small and theres no real air defence, they'll be wiped out. its better to invest in A SAM network before thinking about this bullshit.

PA armour uses good camo techniques as not to be detected from air. You can see the camo techniques in pictures of manoeuvres
Even the tank crews are trained expected to clean the track trail of the tank tracks in the desert. Howver this does become a problem because the crew is reduced to 3 now in modern tanks instead of 4.

The air strike formation of air crafts is controlled from the ground. Sniping the air craft ground controller or taking him out is yet another way to render the air strike useless. He or his team is present close to the area usually in 2-5 km radius at most.Similar case is with the artillery observer team, take him out and the artillery strikes lose effectiveness.

PA armoured forces are protected by SAM coverage of man pads on vehicles as to keep up with the speed of the advance. These can be ANZA or Stinger missiles and even AAA flak guns 35mm.
They are effectively be against ground attack aircraft, helicopter threat and UCAV. The ground attack aircraft usually attain a specific height to drop their load of bombs on armour and other ground targets. ANZA and stinger are a deterrent to let them come below a certain altitude , like jaguar of IAF.

The mirage 2000 and SU 30 are precision strike aircrafts which can release payload from high altitudes at fixed targets. They will not be targetting individual tanks one by one. Their main job is to deny bridge access to PA.
PA tanks won't be standing stationary as if on a picnic inside India to get bombed.

Tanks are mobile and will be moving all the time, if they stay between populated places after crossing border, IAF will not bomb them.

The more quickly contact is made with indian forces or a strategic target captured e.g. Enemy HQ or a City center, the chances of bombing by IAF become negligent.

If contact is made with enemy and enemy position is over run, the amount of time spent in that sector during collection of prisoners and enemy wounded ,abandoned vehicles , ammunition etc will deny IAF strike.

In gulf war, the Iraqis dug in instead of keeping their forces mobile, in fact the mobile guards division could not be taken on by aircrafts, they faced M1 tanks and M2 Bradley's.

In kargil war, IAF Mirage2k bombed stationary targets again and again on hill tops.

The very last resort is calling PAF for air cover.

 

[Jat Boy]

PLA themselves have only 600 T99 tanks out of a tank force of over 5000 tanks.

80% of the chinease armour is obselete they need more T99 but they are far more costly than the T96 and earlier models T85 T59 ETC.

So pakistan buying 300 i will take with a pinch of salt

Last week we heard the SU35 flankers are coming

Week before the Typhoon EURO FIGHTER

So lets SEE

 

[thrilainmanila]

PA armour uses good camo techniques as not to be detected from air. You can see the camo techniques in pictures of manoeuvres
Even the tank crews are trained expected to clean the track trail of the tank tracks in the desert. Howver this does become a problem because the crew is reduced to 3 now in modern tanks instead of 4.

The air strike formation of air crafts is controlled from the ground. Sniping the air craft ground controller or taking him out is yet another way to render the air strike useless. He or his team is present close to the area usually in 2-5 km radius at most.Similar case is with the artillery observer team, take him out and the artillery strikes lose effectiveness.

PA armoured forces are protected by SAM coverage of man pads on vehicles as to keep up with the speed of the advance. These can be ANZA or Stinger missiles and even AAA flak guns 35mm.
They are effectively be against ground attack aircraft, helicopter threat and UCAV. The ground attack aircraft usually attain a specific height to drop their load of bombs on armour and other ground targets. ANZA and stinger are a deterrent to let them come below a certain altitude , like jaguar of IAF.

The mirage 2000 and SU 30 are precision strike aircrafts which can release payload from high altitudes at fixed targets. They will not be targetting individual tanks one by one. Their main job is to deny bridge access to PA.
PA tanks won't be standing stationary as if on a picnic inside India to get bombed.

Tanks are mobile and will be moving all the time, if they stay between populated places after crossing border, IAF will not bomb them.

The more quickly contact is made with indian forces or a strategic target captured e.g. Enemy HQ or a City center, the chances of bombing by IAF become negligent.

If contact is made with enemy and enemy position is over run, the amount of time spent in that sector during collection of prisoners and enemy wounded ,abandoned vehicles , ammunition etc will deny IAF strike.

In gulf war, the Iraqis dug in instead of keeping their forces mobile, in fact the mobile guards division could not be taken on by aircrafts, they faced M1 tanks and M2 Bradley's.

In kargil war, IAF Mirage2k bombed stationary targets again and again on hill tops.

The very last resort is calling PAF for air cover.

do you know what happened in longewala, our entire tank brigade was burned to a crisp by a few indian hunters, they were in open dessert. and they couldn't do shit, if a 5th rate aircraft like the hunter can do something like that to a tank brigade imagine what a fully armed mirage 2000 or sukhoi will do, you need to think about the enemys thinking, they aren't going to be scared of the PA Air defence, because its obsolete, there jets will fire off chaffs over the battlefield any barage of short range missiles will get taken out, this is the reality.
you don't need a spotter to track an armored formation it can be done by a UAV, and the indians have israeli ones, a big tank formation can never be missed i doesn't matter how good its camouflaged or how well you hide the tank tracks youre getting spotted one way or another, the indian army has a massive helo force, the level of surveillance in the air will negate any success, the PA still have weak SAMs the anzas may gain a few hits on some helo's but they will not ultimately save the armored division getting destroyed. the fact of the matter is a huge SAM network basically consisting of something equivalent to the S-400 is the only answer. the army have an outdate SAM system which is obsolete and won't do shit.

 

[Signalian]

do you know what happened in longewala, our entire tank brigade was burned to a crisp by a few indian hunters, they were in open dessert. and they couldn't do shit, if a 5th rate aircraft like the hunter can do something like that to a tank brigade imagine what a fully armed mirage 2000 or sukhoi will do, you need to think about the enemys thinking, they aren't going to be scared of the PA Air defence, because its obsolete, there jets will fire off chaffs over the battlefield any barage of short range missiles will get taken out, this is the reality.
you don't need a spotter to track an armored formation it can be done by a UAV, and the indians have israeli ones, a big tank formation can never be missed i doesn't matter how good its camouflaged or how well you hide the tank tracks youre getting spotted one way or another, the indian army has a massive helo force, the level of surveillance in the air will negate any success, the PA still have weak SAMs the anzas may gain a few hits on some helo's but they will not ultimately save the armored division getting destroyed. the fact of the matter is a huge SAM network basically consisting of something equivalent to the S-400 is the only answer. the army have an outdate SAM system which is obsolete and won't do shit.

In the 1971 war, battle of longewala, the armoured force had no AD cover, a grave mistake which cost a lot. It was not an armoured brigade, it was an infantry brigade with an armoured regiment of 45 tanks. The tanks had 12.7mm gun mounted on turret for AD but it was inadequate against aircraft.

I have explained in previous post why mirage 2000 and SU 30 will not be going after tanks.
It's infantry job to capture an area and dig in to defend that area. The tanks are a mobile force and do not remain stationary. They keep moving ahead to make contact with the enemy. They are supposed to run over enemy lines so that the infantry can then capture the area. An area captured by dug in infantry is susceptible to attacks by Mirage and Sukhoi. Even if the division stops to refuel or re group, it will either be close to a populated area or the area just captured from Indians. This will make IAF think twice before they bombard their troops taken an POW or population.

An armoured division has an AD brigade for protecting its tanks, SP guns, APC and other support units.
AD brigade has between 54-96 SAM Launchers. It varies because some units may use 18 SAM tubes while some may use more or even 35mm AAA. If u think that a ground attack jet which has to descend to a lower altitude to engage a moving target will easily escape a SAM umbrella of minimum 5 km radius upto 15 km radius ( depending how stretched the division is ) with 50+ SAM launchers active to take it out, you better pray for the safety of that pilot. Secondly, with so much flak to counter, the pilot will forget going after the target and try to protect himself first.
Let me tell you very clearly, when PA AD gets a few hits on indian choppers or ground attack aircraft, they will stop coming.indians will be forced to use a new strategy to break PA advance.

The aircraft controller or forward air controller is an officer tasked to designate targets to the ground attack aircraft. His job is not to spot the enemy, his job is to provide the most threatening tank or weapon of the enemy which is causing maximum damage to his forces to be given as a target to his Air Force to be taken out in priority basis. If you take him out, then the ground attack aircraft are on their own to choose and attack a target but they do not know which weapon or tank is causing maximum damage to their ground forces and that can change the whole scenario with in minutes. The target may include command, communications or other vital engineering armoured vehicles also.

The Army has long range and medium to high altitude SAM in the form of Aspide/Spada 2000. There is a also a Chinese version of Crotale SAM known as HQ-7 which is based on a vehicle. The PA uses Giraffe Radar system with its armoured forces to detect incoming aircraft and helos, and then puts these SAM systems to work.
If PA has S 400, it will never be taken into indian territory to accompany armoured forces because it will soon be a logistical burden. It will need a ground force and an AD force to protect it. The armoured division mission will be compromised and its speed will slow down.

 

[Inception-06]

In the 1971 war, battle of longewala, the armoured force had no AD cover, a grave mistake which cost a lot. It was not an armoured brigade, it was an infantry brigade with an armoured regiment of 45 tanks. The tanks had 12.7mm gun mounted on turret for AD but it was inadequate against aircraft.

I have explained in previous post why mirage 2000 and SU 30 will not be going after tanks.
It's infantry job to capture an area and dig in to defend that area. The tanks are a mobile force and do not remain stationary. They keep moving ahead to make contact with the enemy. They are supposed to run over enemy lines so that the infantry can then capture the area. An area captured by dug in infantry is susceptible to attacks by Mirage and Sukhoi. Even if the division stops to refuel or re group, it will either be close to a populated area or the area just captured from Indians. This will make IAF think twice before they bombard their troops taken an POW or population.

An armoured division has an AD brigade for protecting its tanks, SP guns, APC and other support units.
AD brigade has between 54-96 SAM Launchers. It varies because some units may use 18 SAM tubes while some may use more or even 35mm AAA. If u think that a ground attack jet which has to descend to a lower altitude to engage a moving target will easily escape a SAM umbrella of minimum 5 km radius upto 15 km radius ( depending how stretched the division is ) with 50+ SAM launchers active to take it out, you better pray for the safety of that pilot. Secondly, with so much flak to counter, the pilot will forget going after the target and try to protect himself first.
Let me tell you very clearly, when PA AD gets a few hits on indian choppers or ground attack aircraft, they will stop coming.indians will be forced to use a new strategy to break PA advance.

The aircraft controller or forward air controller is an officer tasked to designate targets to the ground attack aircraft. His job is not to spot the enemy, his job is to provide the most threatening tank or weapon of the enemy which is causing maximum damage to his forces to be given as a target to his Air Force to be taken out in priority basis. If you take him out, then the ground attack aircraft are on their own to choose and attack a target but they do not know which weapon or tank is causing maximum damage to their ground forces and that can change the whole scenario with in minutes. The target may include command, communications or other vital engineering armoured vehicles also.

The Army has long range and medium to high altitude SAM in the form of Aspide/Spada 2000. There is a also a Chinese version of Crotale SAM known as HQ-7 which is based on a vehicle. The PA uses Giraffe Radar system with its armoured forces to detect incoming aircraft and helos, and then puts these SAM systems to work.
If PA has S 400, it will never be taken into indian territory to accompany armoured forces because it will soon be a logistical burden. It will need a ground force and an AD force to protect it. The armoured division mission will be compromised and its speed will slow down.

You have very well explained everything, I would like to add this system here also to your list:

Chapter One_anti-aircraft guns in service with the Pakistani Air Defence. Why we are still using the AA-Guns ?
This AA units provide mobile point and limited area defence capabilities against opposing aircraft and helicopters,Drones.

Experience in the Vietnam War shows that the weapon is particularly effective against flow-flying target at altitudes between 450m and 1,500m. When used in groups, the weapon could provide not only intensive anti-aircraft fire power, but also violent psychological effects on aviation crews to reduce their effectiveness. The PLA has also been studying the use of AAA in intercepting low-flying cruise missiles.

Then there are sensitive targets which are surrounded all around with mixed AAA battlegroups. Such targets are in or near mountains, which makes for aircraft, trying to attack from far away, difficult as there r mountains and other obastacles in the way, hence these aircraft have to drop their loads when very near the target. For them, these AAA groups, with their limited range, are used.

Source: Pakistan Air Defence -anti-aircraft guns- missiles, Information and Pictures

MOUZ is a Talha based APC carrying RBS-70 Weapon System along with its crew of 4 persons. This vehicle has been designed and manufactured by HIT engineers. The RBS-70 short range anti-aircraft missile works on the principal of laser beam riding guidance. The RBS-70 missile can be operated independently in stand-alone or can be configured with several firing units linked with surveillance radar to form an anti-aircraft battery. The truck-mounted Giraffe land mobile radar developed by Ericsson can be linked to nine RBS-70 firing posts. The firing posts, typically 4km apart, protect an area of 175 km2. The target data, including range, bearing and velocity is transmitted to each designated missile firing post.

Some picture to get Idea of the mobile short range air defence equipment of Pakistan Army:

do you know what happened in longewala, our entire tank brigade was burned to a crisp by a few indian hunters, they were in open dessert. and they couldn't do shit, if a 5th rate aircraft like the hunter can do something like that to a tank brigade imagine what a fully armed mirage 2000 or sukhoi will do, you need to think about the enemys thinking, they aren't going to be scared of the PA Air defence, because its obsolete, there jets will fire off chaffs over the battlefield any barage of short range missiles will get taken out, this is the reality.
you don't need a spotter to track an armored formation it can be done by a UAV, and the indians have israeli ones, a big tank formation can never be missed i doesn't matter how good its camouflaged or how well you hide the tank tracks youre getting spotted one way or another, the indian army has a massive helo force, the level of surveillance in the air will negate any success, the PA still have weak SAMs the anzas may gain a few hits on some helo's but they will not ultimately save the armored division getting destroyed. the fact of the matter is a huge SAM network basically consisting of something equivalent to the S-400 is the only answer. the army have an outdate SAM system which is obsolete and won't do shit.

Please check this topic Pakistan Air Defence -anti-aircraft guns- missiles, Information and Pictures

Source: Pakistan Air Defence -anti-aircraft guns- missiles, Information and Pictures | Page 4

 

[thrilainmanila]

In the 1971 war, battle of longewala, the armoured force had no AD cover, a grave mistake which cost a lot. It was not an armoured brigade, it was an infantry brigade with an armoured regiment of 45 tanks. The tanks had 12.7mm gun mounted on turret for AD but it was inadequate against aircraft.

I have explained in previous post why mirage 2000 and SU 30 will not be going after tanks.
It's infantry job to capture an area and dig in to defend that area. The tanks are a mobile force and do not remain stationary. They keep moving ahead to make contact with the enemy. They are supposed to run over enemy lines so that the infantry can then capture the area. An area captured by dug in infantry is susceptible to attacks by Mirage and Sukhoi. Even if the division stops to refuel or re group, it will either be close to a populated area or the area just captured from Indians. This will make IAF think twice before they bombard their troops taken an POW or population.

An armoured division has an AD brigade for protecting its tanks, SP guns, APC and other support units.
AD brigade has between 54-96 SAM Launchers. It varies because some units may use 18 SAM tubes while some may use more or even 35mm AAA. If u think that a ground attack jet which has to descend to a lower altitude to engage a moving target will easily escape a SAM umbrella of minimum 5 km radius upto 15 km radius ( depending how stretched the division is ) with 50+ SAM launchers active to take it out, you better pray for the safety of that pilot. Secondly, with so much flak to counter, the pilot will forget going after the target and try to protect himself first.
Let me tell you very clearly, when PA AD gets a few hits on indian choppers or ground attack aircraft, they will stop coming.indians will be forced to use a new strategy to break PA advance.

The aircraft controller or forward air controller is an officer tasked to designate targets to the ground attack aircraft. His job is not to spot the enemy, his job is to provide the most threatening tank or weapon of the enemy which is causing maximum damage to his forces to be given as a target to his Air Force to be taken out in priority basis. If you take him out, then the ground attack aircraft are on their own to choose and attack a target but they do not know which weapon or tank is causing maximum damage to their ground forces and that can change the whole scenario with in minutes. The target may include command, communications or other vital engineering armoured vehicles also.

The Army has long range and medium to high altitude SAM in the form of Aspide/Spada 2000. There is a also a Chinese version of Crotale SAM known as HQ-7 which is based on a vehicle. The PA uses Giraffe Radar system with its armoured forces to detect incoming aircraft and helos, and then puts these SAM systems to work.
If PA has S 400, it will never be taken into indian territory to accompany armoured forces because it will soon be a logistical burden. It will need a ground force and an AD force to protect it. The armoured division mission will be compromised and its speed will slow down.

I think you're post is great, very honest, but i think something like the S-400 can be deep within pak territory it doesn't have to be riding with the armored corps.

 

[Stag112]

I think you're post is great, very honest, but i think something like the S-400 can be deep within pak territory it doesn't have to be riding with the armored corps.

S400 is strategic defense, not point defense. You will need point defense against low flying aircraft and helos. Heck even your S400 installations require point defense.

This is not to say S400 is not a force multiplier.

 

[Maarkhoor]

then what about our very own Al Khalid. Instead of buying the tanks, upgrade Al Khalid and create infrastructure to roll out tanks at a faster rate. I suggest, Poland's obrum stealth tank features may be incorporated in Al - Khalid or Al Haider. If Pak Army still want to buy tanks then go for these.

Pakistan is looking for 1500Hp engines but after Ukrainian crises now we are searching for new supplier once deal done you will see new roaring Al-Khalid MBT.

 

[Daniel808]

If this news is true, That would become a Really good news for Pakistan Army. Hope Pakistan Army choose Type 99A2 Variant.
I must say, TYPE 99A2 MBT is a Monster Tank with Latest Advanced Technology.

Cannot wait to see this Monster Tank with Pakistan Army Desert camo.


Btw, I found nice Picture.
ZTZ99A2's 1,500 HP (Max 1,650HP) tank engine Production line.

Credit to @cnleio

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

is the tank competition final? There were rumours that no MBT met the performance criteria.

 

[Dazzler]

is the tank competition final? There were rumours that no MBT met the performance criteria.

type-99 is not tested yet, VT-4 and Oplot M both fell short

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

The Type 99A2 (the official name is actually ZTZ-99A) won't be available for export right away, as it is currently the most capable platform their ground forces have in service and their only vehicle designated as an "enhanced 3rd generation" tank. Granted, there was a rumor that their next-generation MBT prototype has been assembled since 2014, so the status quo might change.

That leaves the PA the choice between the Type 99A1 and the MBT-3000 for now (assuming that their top brass is looking to buy Chinese), both of which should be pretty comparable to other 3rd generation MBTs in terms of performance and logistics. The only hurdle would be the tanks' tolerance in Pakistan's desert terrain and heat, and also potential export limitations on their German-derived engines (although the MBT-3000 should have a Chinese engine by now).

"The only hurdle would be the tanks' tolerance in Pakistan's desert terrain and heat"
Some News said this point has been taken into account.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Yeah tell your Modi to prepare his 56" chest or be prepared to serve Tea to both China and Pakistan.

This post just made my morning