China Makes Cheap Electric Cars; Why Can’t Americans Buy Them? “[The Chinese have] reached a point of manufacturing cars efficiently like phones"

[beijingwalker]

It's a simple fact, really.

If I can afford something, that mean I can buy or choose what to buy. If you tell me I buy this "because it was X amount cheaper" that mean you actually can't afford that particular thing. I remember my econ professor use a very perfect example to illustrate this. If I can afford to buy a Ferrari, I wouldn't wait for it to go on discount before I get it, that's the definition of affordability.

I am not saying such scenario does not exist here in the west, but that is not big enough a trend to carry on the market.

Everyone likes to buy a mansion but most can't afford one and settled for less.

 

[jhungary]

Everyone likes to buy a mansion but most can't afford one and settled for less.

Dude, that's why you don't market "Cheap Mansion" again, you have to balance on the issue here.

If you are working for a company, try to market your product. Which group of people would you choose to market your product on?

Group 1: A group of people can easily afford such item.
Group 2 : A group of people cannot actually afford that item, but want to take advantage of whatever it is you are offering and choose it based on the price, because they can't afford anything else

You are saying, if you are the marketing director, you would market your product on group 2. I mean, good luck if this is how you do it.

 

[beijingwalker]

Dude, that's why you don't market "Cheap Mansion" again, you have to balance on the issue here.

If you are working for a company, try to market your product. Which group of people would you choose to market your product on?

Group 1: A group of people can easily afford such item.
Group 2 : A group of people cannot actually afford that item, but want to take advantage of whatever it is you are offering and choose it based on the price, because they can't afford anything else

You are saying, if you are the marketing director, you would market your product on group 2. I mean, good luck if this is how you do it.

No one markets it, it's just part of the title of the article, and the article is more about why Americans can't buy them, not how cheap they are, actually on the opposite, in the article the author says they are not cheap in US.

 

[jhungary]

No one markets it, it's just part of the title of the article, and the article is more about why Americans can't buy them, not how cheap they are, actually on the opposite, in the article the author says they are not cheap in US.

The article say "They are very cheap" in fact, cheaper than American company can EVER go.

Meanwhile, across the Pacific, car shoppers in China have a much easier time finding EVs within that price range — and thousands of dollars below it. Any Chinese EV brand could serve this point, but for the sake of comparison, consider the near Bolt equivalent, the new BYD Seagull. The electric hatchback gets about 251 miles of range and can charge between 30% and 80% in a half-hour.​

For Americans to really enjoy the low prices available in China, they would need Chinese EV companies to move their operations to North America, thus sidestepping the tariff. That would involve building factories and manufacturing cars in the U.S. (or in a place where the tariff doesn’t apply, like Mexico). And while such a notion isn’t impossible, so far only one Chinese EV company, Nio, has made strides to open on American soil, and even it has only leased space in San Jose, California, but hasn’t built assembly plants or announced plans to do so.​

Looking to the near future, American automakers will have a tough time selling EVs at prices as low as those in China. Even with support from the Inflation Reduction Act, American EV-makers haven’t figured out how to secure battery-grade materials efficiently, leaving them at the mercy of the world’s largest producer of them — China.​

At this point, for the U.S. to sell cheap EVs like China, it would need to do something radical, like invent new battery technology that requires fewer or different chemistries of metals. But even that would require a long-term perspective. “The issue,” Kalyan says, “isn’t finding a different composition of metals. It’s finding a different composition that you can scale. There are lots of new chemistries to compete with lithium-ion batteries, but scaling it upward to meet demands for EVs is the challenge.”

And we are talking about how or why Chinese EV cannot enter US market, which only mean marketing. Because you don't wake up and waltz into showroom one day and decided to buy a EV.........

 

[beijingwalker]

The article say "They are very cheap" in fact, cheaper than American company can EVER go.









And we are talking about how or why Chinese EV cannot enter US market, which only mean marketing. Because you don't wake up and waltz into showroom one day and decided to buy a EV.........

The only way to procure one now is to buy it from a third-party site — like Alibaba — and import it from China. But don’t get your hopes up: A Trump administration-era 27.5% tariff still applies to Chinese EV imports. Taking into account the tariff, freight charges and registration fees, you’re likely not going to pay much less than you would for a Chevy Bolt

 

[jhungary]

The only way to procure one now is to buy it from a third-party site — like Alibaba — and import it from China. But don’t get your hopes up: A Trump administration-era 27.5% tariff still applies to Chinese EV imports. Taking into account the tariff, freight charges and registration fees, you’re likely not going to pay much less than you would for a Chevy Bolt

Dude, he is talking about Parallel import. Which mean you buy it from China and then ship it to US, it would have been expensive if you are doing that.

You don't buy car like that.....

 

[dani191]

Only in places where offers equal playing field, many countries in EU and US have restrictions against Chinese cars. and Chinese cars fare pretty well outside those anti China groups.

View attachment 937648

Chinese brands top electric car sales in Israel in H1​

2023-07-03 00:06:00
JERUSALEM, July 2 (Xinhua) -- Chinese brands topped Israel's electric car sales chart in the first half of 2023, according to data released by the Israel Vehicle Importers Association on Sunday.
Between January and June, the Chinese carmaker BYD sold 9,698 cars in Israel, mainly the subcompact crossover SUV Atto 3, while Geely Auto Group, another Chinese carmaker, sold 4,492 vehicles during the same period, all of which were Geometry C compact crossovers.
On the chart, American carmaker Tesla came in third by selling 3,298 cars, followed by South Korea's Hyundai Motor, which sold 3,134 cars.
In sales of gasoline-powered cars in Israel, Chinese automaker Chery Automobile Corporation ranked seventh, with 8,164 cars sold in the first half of the year. ■

Chinese brands top electric car sales in Israel in H1

Chinese brands top electric car sales in Israel in H1-

english.news.cn

in israel there alot of people with money they can afford tesla or mercedes

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Dude, he is talking about Parallel import. Which mean you buy it from China and then ship it to US, it would have been expensive if you are doing that.

You don't buy car like that.....

This Zayn Kaylan guy in the OP story is Canadian complaining about Chinese EVs not being sold in the US...but why isn't he complaining about Chinese EVs not being sold in Canada...certainly any US tariffs don't apply there.

What's his excuse for his own backyard??

Mar 09, 2023

All 50 electric vehicles for sale in Canada in 2023

With new models cropping up left and right, it can be hard to keep track of all the EVs on the market today—so here's a list

driving.ca

• Audi Q4 e-tron (iZEV)
• Audi Q4 Sportback e-tron
• Audi e-tron
• Audi e-tron Sportback
• Audi e-tron GT
• Audi RS e-tron GT
• BMW i4 (iZEV)
• BMW i7
• BMW iX
• BMW iX M60
• Chevrolet Bolt EUV (iZEV)
• Chevrolet Bolt EV (iZEV)
• Ford Mustang Mach-E (iZEV)
• Ford F-150 Lightning
• Ford e-Transit
• Genesis GV60
• Genesis GV70 Electrified
• Genesis G80 Electrified
• Hyundai Ioniq 5 (iZEV)
• Hyundai Kona Electric (iZEV)
• Jaguar I-Pace
• Kia EV6 (iZEV)
• Kia Niro EV (iZEV)
• Kia Soul EV (iZEV)
• Lucid Air
• Mazda MX-30 (iZEV)
• Mercedes-Benz EQB SUV
• Mercedes-Benz EQE
• Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV
• Mercedes-Benz EQS
• Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV
• Mini Cooper SE 3 Door Hatch (iZEV)
• Nissan Ariya (iZEV)
• Nissan Leaf (iZEV)
• Polestar 2 (iZEV)
• Porsche Taycan
• Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo
• Rivian R1T
• Rivian R1S
• Subaru Solterra (iZEV)
• Tesla Model 3
• Tesla Model Y
• Tesla Model S
• Tesla Model X
• Toyota BZ4X (iZEV)
• VinFast VF8
• VinFast VF9
• Volkswagen ID.4 (iZEV)
• Volvo C40 Recharge (iZEV)
• Volvo XC40 Recharge (iZEV)

I don't see the BYD Seagull mentioned in the Canada list.

I find it amazing the number of foreign morons who point at the US for supposedly restricting something without even looking at themselves.

 

[jhungary]

This Zayn Kaylan guy in the OP story is Canadian complaining about Chinese EVs not being sold in the US...but why isn't he complaining about Chinese EVs not being sold in Canada...certainly any US tariffs don't apply there.

What's his excuse for his own backyard??

Mar 09, 2023

All 50 electric vehicles for sale in Canada in 2023

With new models cropping up left and right, it can be hard to keep track of all the EVs on the market today—so here's a list

driving.ca

• Audi Q4 e-tron (iZEV)
• Audi Q4 Sportback e-tron
• Audi e-tron
• Audi e-tron Sportback
• Audi e-tron GT
• Audi RS e-tron GT
• BMW i4 (iZEV)
• BMW i7
• BMW iX
• BMW iX M60
• Chevrolet Bolt EUV (iZEV)
• Chevrolet Bolt EV (iZEV)
• Ford Mustang Mach-E (iZEV)
• Ford F-150 Lightning
• Ford e-Transit
• Genesis GV60
• Genesis GV70 Electrified
• Genesis G80 Electrified
• Hyundai Ioniq 5 (iZEV)
• Hyundai Kona Electric (iZEV)
• Jaguar I-Pace
• Kia EV6 (iZEV)
• Kia Niro EV (iZEV)
• Kia Soul EV (iZEV)
• Lucid Air
• Mazda MX-30 (iZEV)
• Mercedes-Benz EQB SUV
• Mercedes-Benz EQE
• Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV
• Mercedes-Benz EQS
• Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV
• Mini Cooper SE 3 Door Hatch (iZEV)
• Nissan Ariya (iZEV)
• Nissan Leaf (iZEV)
• Polestar 2 (iZEV)
• Porsche Taycan
• Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo
• Rivian R1T
• Rivian R1S
• Subaru Solterra (iZEV)
• Tesla Model 3
• Tesla Model Y
• Tesla Model S
• Tesla Model X
• Toyota BZ4X (iZEV)
• VinFast VF8
• VinFast VF9
• Volkswagen ID.4 (iZEV)
• Volvo C40 Recharge (iZEV)
• Volvo XC40 Recharge (iZEV)

I don't see the BYD Seagull mentioned in the Canada list.

I find it amazing the number of foreign morons who point at the US for supposedly restricting something without even looking at themselves.

What else is new??

I mean, look at who is quoting these type of article? That reflect heavily on the quality of said article to begin with.,

 

[beijingwalker]

Anyway, Chinese cars are about to flood US too very soon

The Chinese Auto Empire Coming to the U.S.

Forget BYD: Geely is the Chinese car company Americans will see most of in the coming years, through brands such as Volvo, Polestar, Lotus and Zeekr.

www.wsj.com

This Zayn Kaylan guy in the OP story is Canadian complaining about Chinese EVs not being sold in the US...but why isn't he complaining about Chinese EVs not being sold in Canada...certainly any US tariffs don't apply there.

What's his excuse for his own backyard??

Mar 09, 2023

All 50 electric vehicles for sale in Canada in 2023

With new models cropping up left and right, it can be hard to keep track of all the EVs on the market today—so here's a list

driving.ca

• Audi Q4 e-tron (iZEV)
• Audi Q4 Sportback e-tron
• Audi e-tron
• Audi e-tron Sportback
• Audi e-tron GT
• Audi RS e-tron GT
• BMW i4 (iZEV)
• BMW i7
• BMW iX
• BMW iX M60
• Chevrolet Bolt EUV (iZEV)
• Chevrolet Bolt EV (iZEV)
• Ford Mustang Mach-E (iZEV)
• Ford F-150 Lightning
• Ford e-Transit
• Genesis GV60
• Genesis GV70 Electrified
• Genesis G80 Electrified
• Hyundai Ioniq 5 (iZEV)
• Hyundai Kona Electric (iZEV)
• Jaguar I-Pace
• Kia EV6 (iZEV)
• Kia Niro EV (iZEV)
• Kia Soul EV (iZEV)
• Lucid Air
• Mazda MX-30 (iZEV)
• Mercedes-Benz EQB SUV
• Mercedes-Benz EQE
• Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV
• Mercedes-Benz EQS
• Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV
• Mini Cooper SE 3 Door Hatch (iZEV)
• Nissan Ariya (iZEV)
• Nissan Leaf (iZEV)
• Polestar 2 (iZEV)
• Porsche Taycan
• Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo
• Rivian R1T
• Rivian R1S
• Subaru Solterra (iZEV)
• Tesla Model 3
• Tesla Model Y
• Tesla Model S
• Tesla Model X
• Toyota BZ4X (iZEV)
• VinFast VF8
• VinFast VF9
• Volkswagen ID.4 (iZEV)
• Volvo C40 Recharge (iZEV)
• Volvo XC40 Recharge (iZEV)

I don't see the BYD Seagull mentioned in the Canada list.

I find it amazing the number of foreign morons who point at the US for supposedly restricting something without even looking at themselves.

The talk is still on, Canada hasn't opened its car market to China yet

Canada's auto industry continues to wait on China

Analysts think it’s just a matter of time before China-based automakers either begin selling cars or locate plants in North America.

canada.autonews.com

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Canada's auto industry continues to wait on China

Analysts think it’s just a matter of time before China-based automakers either begin selling cars or locate plants in North America.

canada.autonews.com

That article you posted is from 2019.

as for the US...

Zeekr Wants To Double Its Sales This Year But Won't Enter The U.S. | Carscoops

Zeekr sold 72,000 vehicles throughout 2022 and believes the 009 will help boost sales this year

www.carscoops.com

Zeekr Wants To Double Its Sales This Year But Won’t Enter The U.S.​

Despite Rolling In Cash, BYD Has No Plans To Enter The U.S. Market And Take On Tesla | Carscoops

BYD reported an 11-fold increase in profits in Q4, but it isn't interested in taking on the U.S.

www.carscoops.com

Despite Rolling In Cash, BYD Has No Plans To Enter The U.S. Market And Take On Tesla​

China’s Nio plans US EV sales by 2025 as it outlines global ambitions

Nio plans to enter the US market in late 2025 and launch more affordable models to compete against the likes of Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y.

www.scmp.com

Chinese Tesla rival Nio plans US EV sales by 2025 as it outlines global ambitions​

Only Volvo has a chance to make it big in the US as Chinese brands (like Geely with their Zeekr sub brand) are unknown. Even MG is not going to work as it has had a pretty bad rep in the US and pulled out of the market in ~1990 due to poor sales. You can only get them at exotic special order places now.

 

[Finer]

It's a simple fact, really.

If I can afford something, that mean I can buy or choose what to buy. If you tell me I buy this "because it was X amount cheaper" that mean you actually can't afford that particular thing. I remember my econ professor use a very perfect example to illustrate this. If I can afford to buy a Ferrari, I wouldn't wait for it to go on discount before I get it, that's the definition of affordability.

I am not saying such scenario does not exist here in the west, but that is not big enough a trend to carry on the market.

Except that you alone don't dictate the understanding of the market. The mass market belongs to the one who are middle class families that buys non-luxury brands and Chinese brands are perfect welcoming spot for them at the time when Toyota and Honda pricing are out of control along with the inflation.

Nobody care what you can afford when it is about mass market that dictates.

Japaneses and Koreans have already taken over the western markets and Chineses aren't that far even though they are being throttled at the moment.

That article you posted is from 2019.

as for the US...

Zeekr Wants To Double Its Sales This Year But Won't Enter The U.S. | Carscoops

Zeekr sold 72,000 vehicles throughout 2022 and believes the 009 will help boost sales this year

www.carscoops.com

Zeekr Wants To Double Its Sales This Year But Won’t Enter The U.S.​

Despite Rolling In Cash, BYD Has No Plans To Enter The U.S. Market And Take On Tesla | Carscoops

BYD reported an 11-fold increase in profits in Q4, but it isn't interested in taking on the U.S.

www.carscoops.com

Despite Rolling In Cash, BYD Has No Plans To Enter The U.S. Market And Take On Tesla​

China’s Nio plans US EV sales by 2025 as it outlines global ambitions

Nio plans to enter the US market in late 2025 and launch more affordable models to compete against the likes of Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y.

www.scmp.com

Chinese Tesla rival Nio plans US EV sales by 2025 as it outlines global ambitions​

Only Volvo has a chance to make it big in the US as Chinese brands are unknown. Even MG is not going to work as it has had a pretty bad rep in the US and pulled out of the market in ~1990 due to poor sales. You can only get them at exotic special order places now.

Hyundai and Kia managed to survive in the western markets. These new Chinese brands will be fine addition to the market especially at the times of chip shortage and electric vehicles shortage. It is actually perfect timing for Chinese electric brands to start debuting.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Personally, I have a preference for ethanol-based vehicles over electric vehicles. I may also consider a hybrid car that combines ethanol and electric power. However, as someone who aspires to embark on long-distance journeys, electric vehicles alone are not a feasible option for me unless there is a technological advancement that allows a vehicle to travel more than 1000 kilometers on a single charge.

 

[Rollno21]

It's pointless to argue price and quality, China now has both, let's wait and see what will happen next year and year after next year.

We don't really care the money we make is from the west or development countries, money is money.

Currently this is the view rest of the world has about China. It will take some time to change with view point.

 

[jhungary]

Except that you alone don't dictate the understanding of the market. The mass market belongs to the one who are middle class families that buys non-luxury brands and Chinese brands are perfect welcoming spot for them at the time when Toyota and Honda pricing are out of control along with the inflation.

Nobody care what you can afford when it is about mass market that dictates.

Japaneses and Koreans have already taken over the western markets and Chineses aren't that far even though they are being throttled at the moment.

Well, again, the same argument for you (the same one I raised to Beijing here)

If you are a marketing directive for a car company, you are tasked with marketing a product. And there are 2 group of people you are targeting.

1.) Middle Class that can easily afford said product.
2.) Middle Class that cannot afford said product but want to take advantage on what you are offering but cannot afford any brand else.

Now, bear in mind, in this market. Majority of people can afford said product easily (Again, even a restaurant worker here are earning about 65,000-70,000 a year and a Tesla is only cost around $60,000) Now, tell me which group would you market on?

The problem is not whether or not the other side have a bigger price, it wouldn't be a matter if people can afford such price, the problem is the market that is entrenched with other brand that a normal person can easily afford. Now, going back to what I said, I am not saying nobody is going to buy Chinese car, I am saying if people want to buy one, that car would need to perform better than other brand because we can choose, again, a waiter can choose whether or not he or she wanted to buy a Tesla or saving $12000 and choose an inferior product and buy a BYD Atto 3. The problem is, while there will be such case where that particular person will choose a BYD in order to save money, it is unlikely that this is the trend, and then we are talking about a waiter, which is quite low on the totem pole.

Which going back to my main point, China can surely dominate the car market here in the west, they need to produce real products that is better than their competitor, say EV, for example, Chinese EV needs to have longer range than the other brand, quicker than the other brand, offering more driver-assist tech than the other brand, have less maintenance than the other brand, have more safety feature than the other brand and etc. It wouldn't necessarily need to cheaper than the other brand, of course it is a plus if they were, but if you are a cars salesman and you try to sell a normal middle class dude here a car, and your pitch is "This car is $12,000 cheaper" that guy you are trying to making a sale to will most likely ask "What else it was better than the other brand?"

And then this is ON TOP of brand biases (ie Chinese brand are inferior) and also product biases (people perfer ICE car than EV).