China Makes Cheap Electric Cars; Why Can’t Americans Buy Them? “[The Chinese have] reached a point of manufacturing cars efficiently like phones"

[jhungary]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, Australian Government gross debt has increased from $534.4 billion in March 2019 to $894.9 billion as of 28 October 2022. The October 2022–23 Budget forecasts further increases in gross debt to $1.159 trillion (43.1% of GDP) by the end of the 2025–26 financial year (Budget strategy and outlook: budget paper no. 1: 2022–23, p. 218).

Australian Government debt

Budget Review October 2022–23 Index Gregory O’Brien In Australia, and in countries around the world, government economic support packages in response to the COVID-19 pandemic have led to large increases in

www.aph.gov.au

# If your debt increases every year as your buying spree continues furthermore, that doesn't mean you can afford anymore. Your debt increase tell you that you cannot afford buying spree anymore if you are not going to pay the debt.

With inflation that increases interest rates higher on commodity, that means the debt is going to increase as buying spree continues.

What have the government debt have to do with what I or everyone earn??

I earn my money, then I pay my taxes, what the government do is what they do, they can't say "Hey, now that our country is owing XYZ billion of dollars, and I need to take it from your earning". They already did, that's call taxes....

Dude, you are clutching the last straw man, your argument is increasingly illogical.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

 

[Nan Yang]

View attachment 938434

Didn't you read?
Chinese cars have a 30% tariff.
Chinese cars cannot qualify for the $7,500 tax credit.
Cars with China made battery also cannot qualify for the tax credit.

Sounds like a Tonya Harding hire thugs to break competitor, Nancy Kerrigan legs so she went on to win.

How proud of winning this way.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Didn't you read?
Chinese cars have a 30% tariff.
Chinese cars cannot qualify for the $7,500 tax credit.
Cars with China made battery also cannot qualify for the tax credit.

Sounds like a Tonya Harding hire thugs to break competitor, Nancy Kerrigan legs so she went on to win.

How proud of winning this way.

Why the f*ck should we start giving Chinese companies a break? China slapped 25%-47% tariffs on imported foreign cars for YEARS (even with their low cost sourcing). Tesla had to go build a factory in China to get around it.

OCT 2 2018

Tesla says it's getting slammed in China because of tariffs, cars cost 60% more than competitors

Tesla says China has put an import tariff of 40 percent on its vehicles, compared with 15 percent for other vehicles imported to China.

www.cnbc.com

Elon Musk’s electric vehicle company pointed out that China has put an import tariff of 40 percent on Tesla vehicles,

So is this a proud way for China to be winning?? Were you crying back then..you typical hypocrite..no!

So now that the tables are turned you think we should feel bad for Chinese companies for having to pay a 30% tariff? F*ck no! Why are you an a-hole thinking we should??

Let them mirror the Tesla route and waste capital building factories over here (and then be like Tesla and need to source their parts locally to get around the car parts tariffs) if they want a break. We should raise the tariffs from 30% to 40% too to even the score.

 

[Finer]

What have the government debt have to do with what I or everyone earn??

I earn my money, then I pay my taxes, what the government do is what they do, they can't say "Hey, now that our country is owing XYZ billion of dollars, and I need to take it from your earning". They already did, that's call taxes....

Dude, you are clutching the last straw man, your argument is increasingly illogical.

You alone cannot dictate the definition of market when the government is on the verge of trillion dollars debt that rely on the tax payers while tax payers are buying the commodity they cannot afford with inflations rising high and interest rate being hiked up to stretch the loan furthermore which translates into debt hence the debt that cannot be paid or not paid off yet.

 

[jhungary]

You alone cannot dictate the definition of market when the government is on the verge of trillion dollars debt that rely on the tax payers while tax payers are buying the commodity they cannot afford with inflations rising high and interest rate being hiked up to stretch the loan furthermore which translates into debt hence the debt that cannot be paid or not paid off yet.

For the last time, it's NOT ME ALONE.

I quoted the nearest data as possible, that's car sales in Australia. YOU DO KNOW CHINESE CAR ALREADY ON SALE HERE? Right? It's not something new here, and Chinese car sales are very dismal here in Australia, again, this is the car sales number in Australia 2022

Top 10 Australian Car Brands

Here's a list of Australia's top 10 car brands, as ranked by the number of vehicles sold in 2015 by Australian car brands.

techquirer.com

1. Toyota	231,050	223,642	3.3% increase
2. Mazda	95,718	101,119	5.3% decrease
3. Kia	78,330	67,964	15.3% increase
4. Mitsubishi	76,991	67,732	13.7% increase
5. Hyundai	73,345	72,872	0.6% increase
6. Ford	66,628	71,380	6.7% decrease
7. MG	49,582	39,025	27.1% increase
8. Subaru	36,036	37,015	2.6% decrease
9. Isuzu Ute	35,323	35,735	1.2% decrease
10. Volkswagen	30,946	40,770	24.1% decrease

Of the 750k New car sold here, only 40k are Chinese car, which belong to 1 single brand, that's MG. The rest of the Chinese car bought a negligible.

This is all car sales in Australia, EV would mostly follow the same pattern, because the price range and preference are similar. People will buy a Kia car will generally buy a Kia EV, and people who can afford a Toyota in 2022 will generally be able to afford a Toyota in 2023.

And THAT'S WHERE THE TREND CAME FROM, IT DIDN'T CAME FROM ME. For you, instead of what you simply say, "oh they will buy Chinese car". Well, data suggest otherwise, and you have not produced anything to back up your claim. And your point are increasing unstable, inflation and debt does not have a serious impact on buying a car. You keep repeating the same point is not going to make it happen....

And I will not be replying to you anymore

 

[Nan Yang]

Why the f*ck should we start giving Chinese companies a break? China slapped 25%-47% tariffs on imported foreign cars for YEARS (even with their low cost sourcing). Tesla had to go build a factory in China to get around it.

OCT 2 2018

Tesla says it's getting slammed in China because of tariffs, cars cost 60% more than competitors

Tesla says China has put an import tariff of 40 percent on its vehicles, compared with 15 percent for other vehicles imported to China.

www.cnbc.com

So is this a proud way for China to be winning?? Were you crying back then..you typical hypocrite..no!

So now that the tables are turned you think we should feel bad for Chinese companies for having to pay a 30% tariff? F*ck no! Why are you an a-hole thinking we should??

Let them mirror the Tesla route and waste capital building factories over here (and then be like Tesla and need to source their parts locally to get around the car parts tariffs) if they want a break. We should raise the tariffs from 30% to 40% too to even the score.

​

May 22, 2018

China cuts car import duty to 15% in boost for BMW, Tesla, Mercedes, Porsche​

Adam Jourdan

SHANGHAI -- China will steeply cut import tariffs for cars and components, the country's finance ministry said, opening up greater access to the world's largest auto market amid an easing of trade tensions with the U.S.

Import tariffs will be cut to 15 percent for most vehicles from 25 percent from July 1, the Ministry of Finance said in a statement, adding this was part of efforts to open up China's markets and spur development of the local auto sector. A small number of imported trucks are taxed at 20 percent currently.

The move will be a major boost to overseas carmakers, especially helping premium brands such as BMW, Tesla, Audi and Mercedes-Benz close a price gap on local rivals.

Source

Tesla says it's getting slammed in China because of tariffs, cars cost 60% more than competitors

Tesla says China has put an import tariff of 40 percent on its vehicles, compared with 15 percent for other vehicles imported to China.

www.cnbc.com

Aug 23, 2019 ​

China tariffs will add 25 per cent to cars imported from U.S.​

BMW, Tesla, Ford and Mercedes-Benz are likely to be the hardest hit by Chinese taxes levied in retaliation against Trump duties

The Associated Press
Published Aug 23, 2019 •

US President Donald Trump speaks with reporters as he departs the White House, in Washington, DC, on June 2, 2019. PHOTO BY JIM WATSON /Getty Images

China on Friday announced tariff hikes on US$75 billion of U.S. products in retaliation for President Donald Trump’s latest planned increase, deepening a conflict over trade and technology that threatens to tip a weakening global economy into recession.

China also will increase import duties on U.S.-made autos and auto parts, the Finance Ministry announced.

Tariffs of 10 per cent and 5 per cent will take effect on two batches of goods on September 1 and December 15, the ministry said in a statement. It gave no details of what goods would be affected but the timing matches Trump’s planned duty hikes.

A separate statement said tariffs of 25 per cent and 5 per cent would be imposed on U.S.-made autos and auto parts on December 15. Beijing announced that increase last year but suspended it after Trump and his Chinese counterpart, President Xi Jinping, agreed at a meeting in December in Argentina to put off further trade action while they negotiated.

Trump and Xi agreed in June to resume negotiations. But talks in Shanghai in July ended with no indication of progress. Negotiators talked by phone this month and are due to meet again in Washington next month.

Source

China tariffs will add 25 per cent to cars imported from U.S.

BMW, Tesla, Ford and Mercedes-Benz are likely to be the hardest hit by Chinese taxes levied in retaliation against Trump duties

driving.ca

 

[Han Patriot]

Because it's like Jeremy Clarkson said when it come to cars, "Cheap" is not a strength, I mean, if I can choose, I would choose comfortable, functionality, safety before cheap. Why would I want to buy a $12,000 EV from China when I can afford a $38,000 Tesla.

It's not the fact that I am saying Chinese EV are any worse than other, but simply the headline of being cheap is not as big of a decision-making factor in the West than in China. I mean I would buy a Chinese EV if I test driven it and it gets better than a Korean or German EV, I wouldn't care if that EV is $20,000 or $200,000, but I wouldn't buy them simply because it was cheap.

What if it was cheaper by 10k and meets the same safety stabdards and has the same features. You are nothing but a China hating Hongkie mulatto, you already have an internal bias, not mentally, it is physical. Your blood is tainted..... That's why China cannot allow people like you in, deport and auction off your property.

What the West is doing now is called market protectionism. It is not good for the coonsumers.

 

[Stranagor]

 

[Finer]

For the last time, it's NOT ME ALONE.

I quoted the nearest data as possible, that's car sales in Australia. YOU DO KNOW CHINESE CAR ALREADY ON SALE HERE? Right? It's not something new here, and Chinese car sales are very dismal here in Australia, again, this is the car sales number in Australia 2022

Top 10 Australian Car Brands

Here's a list of Australia's top 10 car brands, as ranked by the number of vehicles sold in 2015 by Australian car brands.

techquirer.com

1. Toyota	231,050	223,642	3.3% increase
2. Mazda	95,718	101,119	5.3% decrease
3. Kia	78,330	67,964	15.3% increase
4. Mitsubishi	76,991	67,732	13.7% increase
5. Hyundai	73,345	72,872	0.6% increase
6. Ford	66,628	71,380	6.7% decrease
7. MG	49,582	39,025	27.1% increase
8. Subaru	36,036	37,015	2.6% decrease
9. Isuzu Ute	35,323	35,735	1.2% decrease
10. Volkswagen	30,946	40,770	24.1% decrease

Of the 750k New car sold here, only 40k are Chinese car, which belong to 1 single brand, that's MG. The rest of the Chinese car bought a negligible.

This is all car sales in Australia, EV would mostly follow the same pattern, because the price range and preference are similar. People will buy a Kia car will generally buy a Kia EV, and people who can afford a Toyota in 2022 will generally be able to afford a Toyota in 2023.

And THAT'S WHERE THE TREND CAME FROM, IT DIDN'T CAME FROM ME. For you, instead of what you simply say, "oh they will buy Chinese car". Well, data suggest otherwise, and you have not produced anything to back up your claim. And your point are increasing unstable, inflation and debt does not have a serious impact on buying a car. You keep repeating the same point is not going to make it happen....

And I will not be replying to you anymore

With the economy increasingly on debt, Chinese brands will be more sought just as Hyundai and Kia defied the expectations in the early 90s. Chinese brands are next Hyundai and Kia of 90's [cheaper and affordable] in the times to come with economy on debt.

In North America, there is no Chinese brands available. I suspect they won't be allowed given the incident of Huawei and how that brand has been discouraged in North America.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

​

May 22, 2018

China cuts car import duty to 15% in boost for BMW, Tesla, Mercedes, Porsche​

Import tariffs will be cut to 15 percent for most vehicles from 25 percent from July 1,

Yeah well look what happened not even a week later on July 6th 2018

http://country.eiu.com/article.aspx

On July 6th the US and China imposed additional import tariffs of 25% on a total US$68bn-worth of bilateral trade flows in merchandise goods.

Jul 9 2018

Tesla increases price of Model S and Model X by over $20,000 in China due to new trade-war tariffs

Tesla exports more electric vehicle to China than any other automaker today, but the company’s exports are likely to slow down...

electrek.co

Those are significant price increases as the original 25% tariff was supposed to be reduced to 15%, but it was instead increased to 40% in retaliation for the US’s latest list of tariffs for Chinese products.

In China, Tesla was doing fairly well despite the 25% import duties.

Yay for a 5 day window.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

In North America, there is no Chinese brands available. I suspect they won't be allowed given the incident of Huawei and how that brand has been discouraged in North America.

BYD promised back in 2009 they'd be selling a 100% battery electric vehicle in North America by 2011 (and even open a factory) but it never happened and this was way before Trump or Huawei.

They have been kicking the same "we will start selling next year" can every year since 2011.

 

[MH.Yang]

Considering the state of the electrical grid in many nations in the global south, what hybrid products does China have for nations with GDP per capita under $3000?

If Chinese brands can be seen as reliable enough and replace decades old European and Japanese cars, they can capture markets while they build up their economies, the way many customers are loyal to Toyota.


perhaps a car like one of the following might sell in the Pakistani market for the middle class, if it was an EV/Hybrid due electricity unreliability.

This type of vehicle is great value for money.

The range is usually over 200km and the price is usually around 5k USD. They will even have a panoramic sunroof and automatic parking. It's just that they are more demanding on infrastructure.

The problem for developing nation or Global South is that they don't have enough resource to support EV car

Bear in mind, you don't just buy the car and drive, you have tons of support you need to deal with EV, things like spare parts, charging stations, improved electricity grid mean if they were to change from ICE to EV, even Hybrid, you will need to invest seriously to replace the current infrastructure.

On the other hand, Hybrid is generally more expensive than EV or ICE car because you have 2 engines and drivetrain on it (both ICE engine and Electric Motor), you may as well stay with ICE car or go get an EV.

P.S The Geely Panda would suck big in Africa....You do long drive in Africa, and it's really pointless to have 100-150km range. Again, they don't have charging station litter along the road like we have in the West

The Geely Panda also has 200 kilometers of range in its lower trim levels. Where have you seen a Geely Panda with a range of only 100 to 150 kilometers?

 

[MH.Yang]

For the last time, it's NOT ME ALONE.

I quoted the nearest data as possible, that's car sales in Australia. YOU DO KNOW CHINESE CAR ALREADY ON SALE HERE? Right? It's not something new here, and Chinese car sales are very dismal here in Australia, again, this is the car sales number in Australia 2022

Top 10 Australian Car Brands

Here's a list of Australia's top 10 car brands, as ranked by the number of vehicles sold in 2015 by Australian car brands.

techquirer.com

1. Toyota	231,050	223,642	3.3% increase
2. Mazda	95,718	101,119	5.3% decrease
3. Kia	78,330	67,964	15.3% increase
4. Mitsubishi	76,991	67,732	13.7% increase
5. Hyundai	73,345	72,872	0.6% increase
6. Ford	66,628	71,380	6.7% decrease
7. MG	49,582	39,025	27.1% increase
8. Subaru	36,036	37,015	2.6% decrease
9. Isuzu Ute	35,323	35,735	1.2% decrease
10. Volkswagen	30,946	40,770	24.1% decrease

Of the 750k New car sold here, only 40k are Chinese car, which belong to 1 single brand, that's MG. The rest of the Chinese car bought a negligible.

This is all car sales in Australia, EV would mostly follow the same pattern, because the price range and preference are similar. People will buy a Kia car will generally buy a Kia EV, and people who can afford a Toyota in 2022 will generally be able to afford a Toyota in 2023.

And THAT'S WHERE THE TREND CAME FROM, IT DIDN'T CAME FROM ME. For you, instead of what you simply say, "oh they will buy Chinese car". Well, data suggest otherwise, and you have not produced anything to back up your claim. And your point are increasing unstable, inflation and debt does not have a serious impact on buying a car. You keep repeating the same point is not going to make it happen....

And I will not be replying to you anymore

According to China's export records, China exported 122,000 automobile tickets to Australia in 2022, accounting for 11.4% of Australia's 2022 new car sales.

Chinese brands ranked fourth behind Japan, South Korea, and Thailand in Australian car sales.

The main Chinese brands sold in Australia are MG, GWM, BYD, Volvo, and Polestar.

BTW: Chinese cars were not allowed to be sold in Australia for the first time until 2019, it was part of an effort by the Australian government at the time to ease relations between the two countries. only 17,957 Chinese cars were sold in Australia in 2019. in 2022, that number became 122,000, a 700% increase in 3 years.

 

[MH.Yang]

BYD promised back in 2009 they'd be selling a 100% battery electric vehicle in North America by 2011 (and even open a factory) but it never happened and this was way before Trump or Huawei.

They have been kicking the same "we will start selling next year" can every year since 2011.

China positions tariffs on imported cars at 10%. But the U.S. positions tariffs on Chinese cars at 30% to 300%, and there are additional fees for shipping, insurance, customs clearance, VAT, towing, and more. The U.S. auto market is not really a free market.