China latest fighter engine is here, WS10TVC Thrust Vector Control turbofan engine official unveil

[Beidou2020]

The fact that we have three pages arguing about this is baffling.

If the engines are no good, debating about it won't change the fact. If the engines are great, saying that they are junk won't change the fact either.

That said if WS-10 really is no good then it would be really baffling for PAF to acquire additional J-10C (if rumor is true) with the engine type, even amidst economic downturn. Seems like wasted money.

Who cares if they don’t want Chinese engines. Let them buy from the Americans if they don’t like Chinese weapons.

All that matters to me is that all new J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20 in PLAAF are being equipped with domestic engines.

 

[Beast]

Who cares if they don’t want Chinese engines. Let them buy from the Americans if they don’t like Chinese weapons.

All that matters to me is that all new J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20 in PLAAF are being equipped with domestic engines.

Correct, these cheap opinions from those coconut will soon eat their own words. Hard facts , reality and common sense will prevail.

 

[Bilal.]

Was really hoping for unveiling of WS15 and 19. These aren’t the most advanced Chinese jet engines.

 

[etylo]

Who cares if they don’t want Chinese engines. Let them buy from the Americans if they don’t like Chinese weapons.

All that matters to me is that all new J-10, J-16, J-20, Y-20 in PLAAF are being equipped with domestic engines.

Yeah, China is not short of money these days that has to depend on the few bucks earned from exporting weapons, China can make money from exporting commercial products world wide.

 

[beijingwalker]

Only fools would fly all their jets with "unreliable" engines in one of the world biggest airshows under the watchful eyes of the wholle world

 

[araz]

Where and what did I try to shove down your throats? this accusation is totally uncalled for, besides, friends don't make unfounded accusations, if you guys believe that Chinese engines are not reliable, you should provide proof, not just speculations based on your bias and stereotype.

Young man.
I have white hair now and they have not gone white by just sitting in the sun. I can spot bullshit when I see it.
Let me spell it out to you.
You had been asked to produce reliable figures from Verifiable sources telling us the MTBO, TWR, and total engine life. Once you have those figures we can make a comparison between your figures and the western engine figures. Without these figures all your posts are of little or no consequence.
We know very well how Chinese engines work and have a 50 yrs experience of dealing with them in Pakistan.
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[Ali_Baba]

Young man.
I have white hair now and they have not gone white by just sitting in the sun. I can spot bullshit when I see it.
Let me spell it out to you.
You had been asked to produce reliable figures from Verifiable sources telling us the MTBO, TWR, and total engine life. Once you have those figures we can make a comparison between your figures and the western engine figures. Without these figures all your posts are of little or no consequence.
We know very well how Chinese engines work and have a 50 yrs experience of dealing with them in Pakistan.
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Completely agree with you. The question is, are Chinese engines still inferior to Russian engines, are they now equal, have they leap frogged them? I really want to know - that is why i am on a "discussion forum".

Right now - no one knows - not even those who "claim" superiority despite having no information at all themselves to back up their claims. And you cannot question their view on a "discussion forum" without all kinds of abuse being handed you away for daring to ask those questions...

Even the Russian manufacturers provide that information : https://www.uecrus.com/eng/products/military_aviation/rd93/

 

[araz]

Completely agree with you. The question is, are Chinese engines still inferior to Russian engines, are they now equal, have they leap frogged them? I really want to know - that is why i am on a "discussion forum".

Right now - no one knows - not even those who "claim" superiority despite having no information at all themselves to back up their claims. And you cannot question their view on a "discussion forum" without all kinds of abuse being handed you away for daring to ask those questions...

It is-the classic MOU.
They say " Chinese engines are now reliable and the best in the-world".
The others say " prove it. Show us some figures".
They say" you are anti Chinese".
No one buys this bull-crap . We will be over the moon if they provide some figures as to how they guage reliability namely " MTBO& TOTAL ENGINE LIFE". Till they do it will be a slug fest and I have no time for it.
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[beijingwalker]

You had been asked to produce reliable figures from Verifiable sources telling us the MTBO, TWR, and total engine life. Once you have those figures we can make a comparison between your figures and the western engine figures. Without these figures all your posts are of little or no consequence.

First I don't they if those specifications are avaible and I asked him to check by himself if he is interested, but taking for granted that those engines are not reliable because he doesn't have detailed figure itself is not logical. and even I got some specifications of those various home made engines, do they prove reliability? many under the development engines have high performance figures but are not very reliable. but common sense can tell us that no countries will fly all their jets with unreliable engines, especially when showing them in one of the largest airshows in the world under the watch eyes of the whole world, what if some of them crash during the show?

We know very well how Chinese engines work and have a 50 yrs experience of dealing with them in Pakistan.

Do you think today's China is same as the country 20 years ago?

 

[Dalit]

A confident and rising nation. That is what China represents. Those that produce traitors are today questioning China's achievements. Those that can't produce a needle are questioning China's capabilities. I can only laugh at these comments.

 

[beijingwalker]

Completely agree with you. The question is, are Chinese engines still inferior to Russian engines, are they now equal, have they leap frogged them? I really want to know - that is why i am on a "discussion forum".

You questioned about "reliability" , as for how good Chinese engines are stacke up against other engines, I m not an expert in this field, opinions vary from person to person.

They say " Chinese engines are now reliable and the best in the-world".

I admit that I did say the relliable part cause now they are fitted in all Chinese planes, but who said the " best in the-world"part?

 

[Dalit]

You questioned about "reliability" , as for how good Chinese engines are stacke up against other engines, I m not an expert in this field, opinions vary from person to person.


I admit that I did say the relliable part cause now they are fitted in all Chinese planes, but who said the " best in the-world"part?

You should request them to ask their air force to drop JF-17 and J-10 Chinese fighters if they are having doubts about reliability.

 

[MultaniGuy]

China latest fighter engine is here, WS10TVC Thrust Vector Control turbofan engine official unveil​

Wow, excellent! Perhaps China can make a derivative for Pakistan's JF-17s instead of those Russian RD-93s.

 

[beijingwalker]

Y-20 heavy transport aircrafts have flew to over a dozen of countries around the world to transport aids and supplies with Chinese domestic engines, never got a problem

 

[araz]

First I don't they if those specifications are avaible and I asked him to check by himself if he is interested, but taking for granted that those engines are not reliable because he doesn't have detailed figure itself is not logical. and even I got some specifications of those various home made engines, do they prove reliability? many under the development engines have high performance figures but are not very reliable. but common sense can tell us that no countries will fly all their jets with unreliable engines, especially when showing them in one of the largest airshows in the world under the watch eyes of the whole world, what if some of them crash during the show?


Do you think today's China is same as the country 20 years ago?

If you had said this in the first instance then all this broo haa haa would have been avoided.
You are now saying that the figures required to make a comparison are not available. Let me tell you where you "PROBABLY" are. I base these figures from the Russian RD and AL series. I think you are in the ball park figure of 80 to 100% comparable to the Russian engines. All your resources have been Russian/ former Russian nations. Through local innovation and sinking nearly 20 billion dollars into the project you have achieved the figures. That means 800 to 1000hrs MTBO and 3600 to 4k life. TWR is likely to be comparable though may be slightly better. As an achievement from a new nation to engine manufacturing the effort is superb and I would be chuffed to bits if this is the case.
The reason you are flying them left right and centre is to continue to see the effects of long term useage on the engines as well as quality issues. It simply means you can improve those figures to produce engines which can withstand thevigour of war time useage.
However, compared to Western figures of 6k MTBO and 12 k engine life you are far behind. Whether you need to get to those figures is another debate. However currently you are behind. What your companies will produce is figures when they have surpassed the Russian figures. These would be leaked as info normally trickles out of the Chinese quarters.
If someone says this is hogwash we have no way of proving them wrong unless figures can be produced from reliable sources. The last question of "so why is China using its own engines?" The answer is it is a step towards independence from suppliers. Also till they do there will not be any data on reliability, consistency, and quality assurance.
We are rooting for you but you need to tone down the rhetoric.
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