China 'firmly opposes' PM Modi's Arunachal visit; India hits back

[Nilgiri]

We tend to think of use of N weapons very casually but remember any first use of N weapons apart from the fact that it is going to bring some kind of proportionate or disproportionate retaliation, also makes you utterly isolated in world community.
China is one of the biggest economies in the world but a large part of that is based on exports of services and finished goods for which you need markets and by extension good trade relations (more so with China given that have huge trade surpluses with most countries they trade with).
There is no hiding from the fact that China is militarily and economically miles ahead of India but the fact remains it is as vulnerable to established rules and principles of global diplomacy as anybody else.
In (hypothetical) case of a war, both countries are going to suffer but in the end there are going to be 2 looser parties.
Chinese leadership understands there aren't many genuinely happy powers in world that are ok with Chinese might on world forums and they will pounce upon any single opportunity if situation with China and any of its neighbors turn hot.
For India, it is simply the case that we can't afford war right now with several sectors of economy demanding resources.
Therefore diplomacy and mature understanding and resolution of whatever issues remain best bet for India and China (or any other nations for that matter).

@Chinese-Dragon @Joe Shearer @jbgt90 @Nilgiri @Arsalan

Bada bhai, not much use.

This guy literally screaming there will be 1000+ jets operating out of what... 5 tibet PLAAF bases (that could arguably handle and base it)? He has done zilch war modelling.

Just picks a few brochure items and copy paste it however many times his feelings dictate it into his emotional head.

Next to no idea about what deployment rates are, sortie rates are, maximum ordinance delivery rates are, logistical pressure rates, effective support rates....you name it (that controls the total projected platform envelope, even assuming a platform has been fully tested, adopted and most importantly integrated into the C4I in the first place...which J-20 is far from having done so, that too in the relevant numbers notably given the other priority theatre concerns of China)

He is the Bangladeshi Feng Leng basically.... @Mage would understand

How about 1000 4th and 5th get aircraft that PLAAF now has?
Resorting to your usual self of talking nonsense when you have no real point again it seems.
Even the 28 J-20s(obviously more by now) that Wiki mentions from last year are enough to ground the whole of the IAF.

You don't get it do you? Even if (and that is a key if to begin with) there is a lethal so called "game changer" asset....it still has to rely on weaker conventional stuff.

Or you telling me a J-20 has infinite air time and infinite ordnance and infinite fuel etc? Any rules a platform is subject to in regular way....simply makes those the newer optimum targeting windows.

You understand how the USN projected itself in areas of yamato-threat/heavy IJN operation well before its core assets arrived? You don't read anything (past wiki apparently) and you assume to know everything. Bad combo.

Like I said from the start (after you stupidly tagged me here thinking your ludicrous stuff will stick to the wall)...you keep assuming one/two hands held back in Indian case. Trust me, those PLAAF air bases become targets right away (for such things as brahmos saturation attacks)...PLAAF knows this too....its why they wouldnt escalate to such a level in first place regarding this.

It is just your mental masturbation in the end....that you cannot comprehend that yes India gets to just reply this way, and the reply sticks each time. You are the one's that get stuck with 2 million returnees and can't do squat about it. Better go fix that before doing your dreams about the big guys.

 

[UKBengali]

Bada bhai, not much use.

This guy literally screaming there will be 1000+ jets operating out of what... 5 tibet PLAAF bases (that could arguably handle and base it)? He has done zilch war modelling.

Just picks a few brochure items and copy paste it however many times his feelings dictate it into his emotional head.

Next to no idea about what deployment rates are, sortie rates are, maximum ordinance delivery rates are, logistical pressure rates, effective support rates....you name it (that controls the total projected platform envelope, even assuming a platform has been fully tested, adopted and most importantly integrated into the C4I in the first place...which J-20 is far from having done so, that too in the relevant numbers notably given the other priority theatre concerns of China)

He is the Bangladeshi Feng Leng basically.... @Mage would understand



You don't get it do you? Even if (and that is a key if to begin with) there is a lethal so called "game changer" asset....it still has to rely on weaker conventional stuff.

Or you telling me a J-20 has infinite air time and infinite ordnance and infinite fuel etc? Any rules a platform is subject to in regular way....simply makes those the newer optimum targeting windows.

You understand how the USN projected itself in areas of yamato-threat/heavy IJN operation well before its core assets arrived? You don't read anything (past wiki apparently) and you assume to know everything. Bad combo.

Like I said from the start (after you stupidly tagged me here thinking your ludicrous stuff will stick to the wall)...you keep assuming one/two hands held back in Indian case. Trust me, those PLAAF air bases become targets right away (for such things as brahmos saturation attacks)...PLAAF knows this too....its why they wouldnt escalate to such a level in first place regarding this.

It is just your mental masturbation in the end....that you cannot comprehend that yes India gets to just reply this way, and the reply sticks each time. You are the one's that get stuck with 2 million returnees and can't do squat about it. Better go fix that before doing your dreams about the big guys.

LOL @ assuming that I am pro-Chinese and anti-India here.

Rather that India acts as part of the containment at the Chinese juggernaut, as an Asia dominated by China would be a pretty bad place.

Stop bringing up this crap about "war-modelling" as we are not here to talk about detailed military logistics. Of course China cannot bring it's whole 1000 4th and 5th generation fleet into Tibet, if only because it could not house the whole lot there. It also has other responsibilities near Taiwan and Korea/Japan to think about. PLAAF says that the J-20 is in service and so it is and we cannot speculate that it is not fully integrated into the battle plan.

What the Chinese can do is to judiciously use some of their 5th generation J-20s to totally dominate the 4th generation IAF. Imagine a scenario where 6 Chinese jets(4 J-10s and 2 J-20s) are working together and they come up against 6 IAF Su-30MKIs. You think that the MKIs would even know there were 2 J-20s around until their RWRS light up and they are then destroyed by the PLAAF's new PL-15 ramjet BVR missiles fired by the stealthy J-20s? IAF would be pretty much helpless as both USA and China are claiming at least a 10:1 kill/ratio against 4th gen jets. Now either one or both or lying but there is a reason why so many people are really interested in upgrading to 5th gen fighters.

Even 28 J-20s(likely to be more as it has been in service for 1 year now) when working with more numerous PLAAF 4th gen fighters would allow PLAAF total air supremacy over the battle space.

Now, let us get serious in a hypothetical scenario where China is about to over-run the state, would India risk a nuclear war for a territory that is not even core India?


PS - lol at Brahmos being this magic bullet that can take out hardened and well defended PLAAF airbases in Tibet.

 

[Nilgiri]

LOL @ assuming that I am pro-Chinese and anti-India here.

Rather that India acts as part of the containment at the Chinese juggernaut, as an Asia dominated by China would be a pretty bad place.

Stop bringing up this crap about "war-modelling" as we are not here to talk about detailed military logistics. Of course China cannot bring it's whole 1000 4th and 5th generation fleet into Tibet, if only because it could not house the whole lot there. It also has other responsibilities near Taiwan and Korea/Japan to think about. PLAAF says that the J-20 is in service and so it is and we cannot speculate that it is not fully integrated into the battle plan.

What the Chinese can do is to judiciously use some of their 5th generation J-20s to totally dominate the 4th generation IAF. Imagine a scenario where 6 Chinese jets(4 J-10s and 2 J-20s) are working together and they come up against 6 IAF Su-30MKIs. You think that the MKIs would even know there were 2 J-20s around until their RWRS light up and they are then destroyed by the PLAAF's new PL-15 ramjet BVR missiles fired by the stealthy J-20s? IAF would be pretty much helpless as both USA and China are claiming at least a 10:1 kill/ratio against 4th gen jets. Now either one or both or lying but there is a reason why so many people are really interested in upgrading to 5th gen fighters.

Even 28 J-20s(likely to be more as it has been in service for 1 year now) when working with more numerous PLAAF 4th gen fighters would allow PLAAF total air supremacy over the battle space.

Now, let us get serious in a hypothetical scenario where China is about to over-run the state, would India risk a nuclear war for a territory that is not even core India?


PS - lol at Brahmos being this magic bullet that can take out hardened and well defended PLAAF airbases in Tibet.

Them = magic bullets coz he sez so.

Us = no magic bullets allowed coz he also sez so

Still not one thermobaric number/day. Not one basic readout on payload delivery. Came back without reading what I even meant contextually about the Philippine sea. Just copies and pastes more from wikipedia.

Thinks it can be taken seriously. Starts posturing with "don't assume im pro-China, anti-India" to try temper its rabbling nonsense later.....can't even see how artificial and soppy that comes off as in the end lol.

Typical BD clown in UK (uses words like butthurt 100 times and other list of "go -to" words @doorstar has compiled). Admitted to me that its neighbours "wake him up" at 4am or whatever it was where he lives. All beginning to make sense on the "quality" delivery on just about any topic....he's totally an educated, well researched fella! Honest!...and not the typical "sylheti" you come across in the UK. Basic math, logic and unbiased neutral delivery STRONK!

 

[UKBengali]

Them = magic bullets coz he sez so.

Us = no magic bullets allowed coz he also sez so

Still not one thermobaric number/day. Not one basic readout on payload delivery. Came back without reading what I even meant contextually about the Philippine sea. Just copies and pastes more from wikipedia.

Thinks it can be taken seriously. Starts posturing with "don't assume im pro-China, anti-India" to try temper its rabbling nonsense later.....can't even see how artificial and soppy that comes off as in the end lol.

Typical BD clown in UK (uses words like butthurt 100 times and other list of "go -to" words @doorstar has compiled). Admitted to me that its neighbours "wake him up" at 4am or whatever it was where he lives. All beginning to make sense on the "quality" delivery on just about any topic....he's totally an educated, well researched fella! Honest!...and not the typical "sylheti" you come across in the UK. Basic math, logic and unbiased neutral delivery STRONK!

You need serious help dude!

 

[sinait]

Chinese keep giving such statements regularly like it give statements about dalai lama , Arunachal Pradesh is integral and inalienable part of india , and india is ready to defend it.it is not 1962 it is 2019 smell the coffee han.

RIGHT, FOR GREEDY INDIA all STOLEN LAND by British Imperialist belong to India.
Akhand Bharat.
INDIA is IMPERIALIST in 21st Century.

Just ask Bhutan if INDIA is the GREEDY IMPERIALIST.
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opin...am-year-bhutan-more-worried-about-india-china
Bhutan more worried about India than China

India in its GREED to swallow South Tibet will instead be dismembered to its original kingdoms.
.

 

[sinait]

you must be living under a rock .... and hence you dont know about chini greed of nine dash line .... wake up.

but we have heard your barking in the past as well. i know you guys only bark...go on

Which NATION or territory have China taken over with their Nine Dash Line.?
Finish open defecate and Come out of YOUR HOLE.
Let me show you WHAT GREEDY INDIA GOBBLED UP.
And don't bring up land that belonged to China since centuries ago.
Imperialist INDIA Land Robbery are recent events, especially SIKKIM.

1947 Annexation of Kashmir
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/06/indias-shame/
http://thediplomat.com/2015/08/kashmirs-young-rebels/
1947 Annexation of Junagadh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Junagadh
1948 Annexation of Hyderabad
https://www.thequint.com/india/2015/09/17/annexation-of-hyderabad-the-untold-story
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24159594
1949 Annexation of Manipur
http://www.tehelka.com/manipurs-merger-with-india-was-a-forced-annexation/
1949 Annexation of Tripura
http://www.crescent-online.net/2009...-in-india-zawahir-siddique-2316-articles.html
1951 Annexation of South Tibet:
http://kanglaonline.com/2011/06/khathing-the-taking-of-tawang/
http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article2582.html
1961 Annexation of Goa:
http://goa-invasion-1961.blogspot.in/2013/04/the-dirty-game-played-by-vk-krishna.html
1962 Annexation of Kalapani, Nepal:
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1239348
http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/land-disputes-116/
http://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/

1971 Annexation of Turtuk, Pakistan:
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/suddenly-indian
1972 Annexation of Tin Bigha, Bangladesh
http://www.dhakatribune.com/op-ed/2014/feb/20/killing-fields
1975 Annexation of Sikkim (the whole country):
http://nepalitimes.com/issue/35/Nation/9621#.UohjPHQo6LA
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1808778.Smash_And_Grab#
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...-was-not-legal-wangchuk-namgyal/1/391498.html
1983 Aborted Attempted to invade Mauritius
http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/when-india-almost-invaded-mauritius/
1990 Failed Attempted to annex Bhutan:
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html
2006 Annexation of Duars, Bhutan:
http://wangchasangey.blogspot.in/2015/11/different-kind-of-anxieties-on.html#comment-form
2013 Annexation of Moreh, M260386
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nehginpao-kipgen/easing-indiamyanmar-borde_b_4633040.html

2017 (Failed) Second Attempted annexation of Bhutan:
http://wangchasangey.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-strategy-behind-india-doklam.html
http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...-find-face-saving-pretext-and-withdraw-doklam

1962 Failed Attempt to grab land from China:
http://gregoryclark.net/redif.html
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/podcasts/renewed-tension-indiachina-border-whos-blame

Book on Annexation of Sikkim
.

 

[Jackdaws]

So did China do anything or did they just twiddle their thumbs?

 

[anant_s]

middle of next decade when they would have hundreds of J-20s

That is true, but you have to account for changes that India too would be going in terms of its fleet size and quality. by 2030, we are expecting AMCA and large number of Rafales along with one more VLO aircraft in Indian Inventory along with much superior AWACS and ground based Radars. The whole thing would hinge on fact whether Indian Airforce is going to close the technological gap with Eastern Neighbor.

 

[HariSinghNalwa]

Which NATION or territory have China taken over with their Nine Dash Line.?
Finish open defecate and Come out of YOUR HOLE.
Let me show you WHAT GREEDY INDIA GOBBLED UP.
And don't bring up land that belonged to China since centuries ago.
Imperialist INDIA Land Robbery are recent events, especially SIKKIM.

1947 Annexation of Kashmir
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/06/indias-shame/
http://thediplomat.com/2015/08/kashmirs-young-rebels/
1947 Annexation of Junagadh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Junagadh
1948 Annexation of Hyderabad
https://www.thequint.com/india/2015/09/17/annexation-of-hyderabad-the-untold-story
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24159594
1949 Annexation of Manipur
http://www.tehelka.com/manipurs-merger-with-india-was-a-forced-annexation/
1949 Annexation of Tripura
http://www.crescent-online.net/2009...-in-india-zawahir-siddique-2316-articles.html
1951 Annexation of South Tibet:
http://kanglaonline.com/2011/06/khathing-the-taking-of-tawang/
http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article2582.html
1961 Annexation of Goa:
http://goa-invasion-1961.blogspot.in/2013/04/the-dirty-game-played-by-vk-krishna.html
1962 Annexation of Kalapani, Nepal:
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1239348
http://www.sharnoffsglobalviews.com/land-disputes-116/
http://www.eurasiareview.com/07032012-indian-hegemony-in-nepal-oped/

1971 Annexation of Turtuk, Pakistan:
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/suddenly-indian
1972 Annexation of Tin Bigha, Bangladesh
http://www.dhakatribune.com/op-ed/2014/feb/20/killing-fields
1975 Annexation of Sikkim (the whole country):
http://nepalitimes.com/issue/35/Nation/9621#.UohjPHQo6LA
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1808778.Smash_And_Grab#
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...-was-not-legal-wangchuk-namgyal/1/391498.html
1983 Aborted Attempted to invade Mauritius
http://thediplomat.com/2013/03/when-india-almost-invaded-mauritius/
1990 Failed Attempted to annex Bhutan:
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/07/world/india-based-groups-seek-to-disrupt-bhutan.html
2006 Annexation of Duars, Bhutan:
http://wangchasangey.blogspot.in/2015/11/different-kind-of-anxieties-on.html#comment-form
2013 Annexation of Moreh, M260386
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nehginpao-kipgen/easing-indiamyanmar-borde_b_4633040.html

2017 (Failed) Second Attempted annexation of Bhutan:
http://wangchasangey.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-strategy-behind-india-doklam.html
http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...-find-face-saving-pretext-and-withdraw-doklam

1962 Failed Attempt to grab land from China:
http://gregoryclark.net/redif.html
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/podcasts/renewed-tension-indiachina-border-whos-blame

Book on Annexation of Sikkim
.

Han remember Tibet will be in the list soon through the guidance of his holiness dalai lama ,turkey is also raising it's voice for east Turkestan ,and republic of china is still not going down as the communist thought they will crumble like pieces ,keep your south Tibet propaganda to yourself ,Modi will again come in a months time ,keep the propaganda for that time

 

[sinait]

Han remember Tibet will be in the list soon through the guidance of his holiness dalai lama ,turkey is also raising it's voice for east Turkestan ,and republic of china is still not going down as the communist thought they will crumble like pieces ,keep your south Tibet propaganda to yourself ,Modi will again come in a months time ,keep the propaganda for that time

YOU REALLY ARE FROM A HOLE.
No wonder you think everybody else are "living under a rock".
No Chance CIA STOOGE Dalai Lama wants to continue to stay in your filthy SHIT FILLED Nation.

https://www.newskarnataka.com/india/we-want-to-stay-with-china-says-dalai-lama-terming-indians-lazy
Dalai Lama terming Indians lazy

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...hina-says-dalai-lama/articleshow/61775261.cms
Tibet wants to stay with China, says Dalai Lama

https://thewire.in/diplomacy/dalai-lama-india-china-tibet
The Dalai Lama Wants to Return Home
.

 

[anant_s]

Boy, no one can ever accuse of being a cynic, wish I could be that optimistic.But even if we are to believe in your prediction, that still doesn'[t answer the question raised by that bangladeshi dude.

Can senior pros answer the question here please
@MilSpec @Joe Shearer @gambit
The way i see it is that whole premise that J 20 will make everything else irrelevant is indigestible to me. I'm not discounting the capabilities claimed for J 20 but as yet it is not battle proven and more importantly IAF air surveillance and defence capabilities aren't something that can be swept by a squadron or two of VLO air crafts.

 

[Hellfire]

Another ploy to try and settle the boundary issue, an issue that keeps even China on the edge. Unlike the bravado in PDF, China is also wary of an unsettled border with India. Arunachal will remain an issue till the middle and Western Borders are also not settled with China. Just a posture.

However, if they persist, they may find a rethink over multiple Indian positions not antagonistic to their interests elsewhere, including Xinjiang and Tibet.

 

[sinait]

hahaha... nine dash line was such a perfect hit on the target.... made you write all this.. i'm so happy...

your crybaby 12 jinping wants Arunachal Pradesh... ask him to come and take it. Even with congrss you were timid and now with Modi you just cross the line.... hahaha

Its my pleasure that you allowed me the chance to paste all that AGAIN.
You may want to check how many times I pasted the exact same thing to EXPOSE HOW EVIL a NATION INDIA IS.

You show your IGNORANCE maybe bcoz you are new here.
Its takes just a few seconds to paste or maybe you are computer ILLITERATE.

You ask Nehru if he said the same thing to Mao, AND NEHRU LIVED A LIFE OF SORROW THEREAFTER.
.

 

[sinait]

Another ploy to try and settle the boundary issue, an issue that keeps even China on the edge. Unlike the bravado in PDF, China is also wary of an unsettled border with India. Arunachal will remain an issue till the middle and Western Borders are also not settled with China. Just a posture.

However, if they persist, they may find a rethink over multiple Indian positions not antagonistic to their interests elsewhere, including Xinjiang and Tibet.

Sure only China need worry but not India.
India got democrazy, nothing else matters.

China should just rethink their positions on KASHMIR, SIKKIM, Manipur, Tripura, Goa, Independent Tamil Nadu.
Poor souls there would like to be freed from the EVIL CONTROL from Delhi.

.

hahaha... see. i told you. this guy burning his midnight to come up with this BS. You need some burnol because Modi ji visited some place in another country....

Arunachal Pradesh is integral part of India and no one can stop anyone to visit there.... even i visited last year to Arunachal and Assam.... 12 jinping did not issued any warnings then

Sure Enjoy it while you can.
Just like how Indians can no longer visit Aksai Chin.

Indians have to BEG China to allow them to visit Mount Kailash.
HaHaHa BEGGARS.
.

 

[UKBengali]

Can senior pros answer the question here please
@MilSpec @Joe Shearer @gambit
The way i see it is that whole premise that J 20 will make everything else irrelevant is indigestible to me. I'm not discounting the capabilities claimed for J 20 but as yet it is not battle proven and more importantly IAF air surveillance and defence capabilities aren't something that can be swept by a squadron or two of VLO air crafts.

@Joe Shearer knows sweet f-all about military affairs btw.

Remember 28 J-20s was the number claimed a year ago when the J-20 officially went into service.

How many will the Chinese have by 2025 when the best that India has is Rafales? China may be tempted that the time is then right to capture Arunachal Pradesh that they claim as S Tibet.