China does it again...

[Jackdaws]

My guess.

It's a combination of rising up in a meritocracy, garnering support from various factions and having personal patrons whose ideologically aligned.

Hu doesn't get to pick his own sucessor, Xi was Hu's choice to replace him and now it is looking as if Xi is the definite candidate.

I guess this may sound like one question too many. When you say factions - is it limited to the Communist Party or does it include the Armed Forces and/or the Judiciary?

 

[CardSharp]

I guess this may sound like one question too many. When you say factions - is it limited to the Communist Party or does it include the Armed Forces and/or the Judiciary?

Factions as in the former members communist youth league, the Shanghai clique, or the princlings (sons and daughters of old prominent revolutionary leaders).

These people all have a certain relationship with each and help each other out.

 

[Alphatech]

Hmmm .......If there is no fixed procedure for electing a successor and is only based on nominations and influence, what's going to stop someone from nominating a family member and transforming it into a North Korean style autocracy. You might say it is difficult but it has happened too many times even in proper democracies to make it completely unlikely. And once it gets into a family affair, the only likely way to break it would be violence or complete change of the style of Governance.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Relax buddy, no one here is lecturing anyone on morality, we are just having a healthy discussion on this topic. I understand that no one completely agrees with the jailing of the guy and that does count a lot. But ultimately the man will still be in jail whether the people on this board defend it or not.

However I personally feel that if it wasn't for people like us discussing such issues all over the world, he might not even have been jailed, he would have simply disappeared. Harsh, but true, the only reason why dissidents are jailed and not simply killed nowadays is because of intense international scrutiny. There was a time when people who spoke against the governments across the world had a lot more to fear than jail time. If it wasn't for those watching from across the borders, people like Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi and the whole lot would have been long dead.

Fair point. But I would say that Chinese leadership is often very stubborn regarding "outside pressure".

Bending to outside pressure can be perceived as losing face.

Change will only come about through internal pressure, from within China, and from within the CCP itself.

 

[Jackdaws]

Factions as in the former members communist youth league, the Shanghai clique, or the princlings (sons and daughters of old prominent revolutionary leaders).

These people all have a certain relationship with each and help each other out.

Oh so it is not as organized as I thought it would be. So if there is a tiff between 2 powerful factions, they could settle on a 3rd guy as a consensus candidate who himself might be an unknown quantity and could be dangerous. So, does the Premier have final say or can the Politburo overrule the Premier? Instead of answering my questions, if you can recommend to me the name of an English book about the internal workings on the CCP - I shall appreciate it. Thanks

 

[CardSharp]

Oh so it is not as organized as I thought it would be. So if there is a tiff between 2 powerful factions, they could settle on a 3rd guy as a consensus candidate who himself might be an unknown quantity and could be dangerous. So, does the Premier have final say or can the Politburo overrule the Premier? Instead of answering my questions, if you can recommend to me the name of an English book about the internal workings on the CCP - I shall appreciate it. Thanks

No such a book existed. If you want an idea how Chinese politics work or how leaders are chosen, learn about Deng Xiaoping's political career and how he came to power.

China's leadership succession is best described as a on-going story, and not a process or procedure. You have to know what happened before to know what might happen next.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Oh so it is not as organized as I thought it would be. So if there is a tiff between 2 powerful factions, they could settle on a 3rd guy as a consensus candidate who himself might be an unknown quantity and could be dangerous. So, does the Premier have final say or can the Politburo overrule the Premier? Instead of answering my questions, if you can recommend to me the name of an English book about the internal workings on the CCP - I shall appreciate it. Thanks

The Standing Committee of the Politburo, is the highest authority in the country.

They can override the Paramount leader (Hu Jintao) and the Premier (Wen Jiabao) if necessary.

However, the Paramount leader will often have a large amount of influence with the members of the Standing Committee.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

No such a book existed. If you want an idea how Chinese politics work or how leaders are chosen, learn about Deng Xiaoping's political career and how he came to power.

This is good advice.

 

[CardSharp]

The Standing Committee of the Politburo, is the highest authority in the country.

They can override the Paramount leader (Hu Jintao) and the Premier (Wen Jiabao).

However, the Paramount leader will often have a large amount of influence with the members of the Standing Committee.

You'll never see the standing committee over rule Hu or Wen because that is just not how it works. China's committees work on consensus building, they won't announce a decision unless there is a strong consensus behind it. If they disagree they'll hold off on announcing anything. Appearing united on a decision is important in Chinese politics.

When it says President Hu announces such a such decision, you can bet that it is actually the final decision of whatever committees that is relevant to the decision be it the standing committee or the CMC.

There is very little in the forms of American style checks and balances, any inpass is resolved not by some tie breaking mechanism but more compromises.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You'll never see the standing committee over rule Hu or Wen because that is just not how it works in China. China's committees work on consensus building, they won't announce a decision unless there is a strong consensus behind it. If they disagree they'll hold off on announcing anything. Appearing united on a decision is important in Chinese politics.

When it says President Hu announces such a such decision, you can bet that it is actually the final decision of whatever committees that is relevant to the decision be it the standing committee or the CMC.

That's right, it works by consensus.

When I said "override", what I mean is that the Standing Committee holds more power than Hu or Wen as individuals.

So any worries about dictatorship and other such one-man abuse of power are unfounded.

 

[CardSharp]

At least this is how I understand things. I could be totally wrong as no knows absolutely how everything works.

 

[Brotherhood]

It always make me laugh when Indians pick and choose some individual cases to bash China's human right issue to score some high moral points while ignoring the "Fact" they are abusing the human rights of 160 millions of their own countrymen on a daily basis="Caste-system"
UN says caste system is a human rights abuse - Telegraph

I'm not here to defend the wrong doing of jailing an individual tinted milk defender but just being sick and tired of Indian's fake concern regarding "human rights"
But please do not even try to put yourselves on a "high-moral' ground cos you don't have one, come back and criticize us by the time India had completely abolished the "Caste-system", what a joke when you people calling us 'slave" for lacking freedom while more than 160 million of your own kind lost their human right before they were born, being treated worse than "slave" for the rest of their life.

On a side note, Indians always complaining this forum being unfair but ignoring the reality that any threads regarding India's human right issues like "untouchables", "poverty", basic human right like access to proper sanitation will be deleted by management in a matter of minutes, and you were allowed open up threads to bash Chinese regarding "freedom, copying, communist, slave" etc on a daily basis.

 

[ChinaRocks]

It always make me laugh when Indians pick and choose some individual cases to bash China's human right issue to score some high moral points while ignoring the "Fact" they are abusing the human rights of 160 millions of their own countrymen on a daily basis="Caste-system"
UN says caste system is a human rights abuse - Telegraph

I'm not here to defend the wrong doing of jailing an individual tinted milk defender but just being sick and tired of Indian's fake concern regarding "human rights"
But please do not even try to put yourselves on a "high-moral' ground cos you don't have one, come back and criticize us by the time India had completely abolished the "Caste-system", what a joke when you people calling us 'slave" for lacking freedom while more than 160 million of your own kind lost their human right before they were born, being treated worse than "slave" for the rest of their life.

On a side note, Indians always complaining this forum being unfair but ignoring the reality that any threads regarding India's human right issues like "untouchables", "poverty", basic human right like access to proper sanitation will be deleted by management in a matter of minutes, and you were allowed open up threads to bash Chinese regarding "freedom, copying, communist, slave" etc on a daily basis.

very well said brother could nt agreed more, this is exactly the intention of the thread starter. They dont call india hypocracy for no reason.

 

[Alphatech]

It always make me laugh when Indians pick and choose some individual cases to bash China's human right issue to score some high moral points while ignoring the "Fact" they are abusing the human rights of 160 millions of their own countrymen on a daily basis="Caste-system"
UN says caste system is a human rights abuse - Telegraph

I'm not here to defend the wrong doing of jailing an individual tinted milk defender but just being sick and tired of Indian's fake concern regarding "human rights"
But please do not even try to put yourselves on a "high-moral' ground cos you don't have one, come back and criticize us by the time India had completely abolished the "Caste-system", what a joke when you people calling us 'slave" for lacking freedom while more than 160 million of your own kind lost their human right before they were born, being treated worse than "slave" for the rest of their life.

On a side note, Indians always complaining this forum being unfair but ignoring the reality that any threads regarding India's human right issues like "untouchables", "poverty", basic human right like access to proper sanitation will be deleted by management in a matter of minutes, and you were allowed open up threads to bash Chinese regarding "freedom, copying, communist, slave" etc on a daily basis.

Lack of freedom of speech versus the caste system, with a year old article as support....is that the best you could come up with? My dear friend, the caste system is something that is a vestige of India's past. And it is not as bad as you people make it out to be. It just meant that certain social stratification existed that were difficult to cross. The practice has been abandoned in all urban areas and is rapidly diminishing in rural areas. It is just a traditional practice. Even the Chinese had silly practices like foot binding which would be considered to be abuse today. Do you ever hear us asking about such things. We don't even talk much about the Issue of forced slavery in China, because we know that even though it is happening, the Government is trying to stop it.

The main reason why Indians and everybody else point out Human rights and lack of freedom of speech in China is because it is happening with Government approval and encouragement. Moreover, as we were discussing, even many Chinese people are hesitant to oppose these blatant human rights denials. On the other hand, everything bad you could highlight about India is something India acknowledges as a problem and the Government and people are actively working to tackle these problems.


No one likes to criticize another country, but when the Government follows an unjust practice and the people don't have the will to speak out, others highlight it. India is a country with many weaknesses, which our Government and people acknowledge and work hard to remove. Your country's greatest problem however is blatant human rights abuse, which your Government insists on hiding and actively encourages. That my friend gives us and everybody else the Moral high ground to criticize you as much as we want and there is nothing you could ever say to deter us.

 

[Abhishek_]

Alpha, let the Chinese members handle their issues. India has enough domestic problems, it would be better if we focus on getting our own house in order.