China does it again...

[Chinese-Dragon]

However, I have to say I am curious as to why so many people think such cases are not against human rights and why the general population do not even try to stop this man from being jailed. If such a judgment were to happen in any other country, it would cause a uproar and the Government would be forced to reconsider it's case. But if the people keep quite, the there is nothing to stop anyone who fights for a just cause from being jailed under for "causing unrest". I am quite sure that a large portion of the Chinese public understand HR and Freedom of Speech, but that doesn't do any good unless it is made obvious.

How do you know that? So far four Chinese people have commented on this thread.

Pirate beard (hu zi hai dao) says that he doesn't agree with the sentence. I say that I don't agree with the sentence. The other two Chinese posters have not given their opinion.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

If such a judgment were to happen in any other country, it would cause a uproar and the Government would be forced to reconsider it's case.

If you want an answer to this question, you have to look at Chinese society and Chinese culture.

Chinese people historically value "stability", and to that end, the rights of the individual are less important than overall national stability. As Cardsharp said.... this is essentially Utilitarianism, i.e. "the greatest good for the greatest number".

Also, Confucian society has a strict "chain of authority", where for example, older family members command more respect than younger ones. In the original "Tian Xia" world order, the top authority is the emperor, although in modern days this has been replaced with the government and the law.

Also you should bear in mind this fact... the Chinese government has the highest level of support from their own population in the entire world. No one else comes close. Not only because of the above two reasons, but because they truly are improving the lives of the ordinary people.

Chinese satisfied with government - Washington Times

 

[Alphatech]

If you want an answer to this question, you have to look at Chinese society and Chinese culture.

Chinese people historically value "stability", and to that end, the rights of the individual are less important than overall national stability. As Cardsharp said.... this is essentially Utilitarianism, i.e. "the greatest good for the greatest number".

I understand putting the nation's interests above one's own, and it has definitely worked for you. But this entire social order is based on the assumption that the person at the top is infallible and will always ensures that his decisions are for the better interest of those below him.

However, as an outsider, I have to say it looks like the man was jailed because he led a group of people asking for compensation from a large corporation. His arrest and sentencing could be quite easily interpreted as an attempt to protect the financial interest of the corporation itself. I don't think a man asking for financial compensation for a corporate crime is a dissident or encouraging mass unrest. If the government is keen to protect the interests of it's corporations rather than it's people, then I can only interpret it as the nationalistic tendencies of the people being exploited for the sake of economic growth. If this goes on, the very people who are willing to put their state before themselves will be hurt most and the system will be eroded from within.

While executing the guy responsible for the adulteration was an impressive decision and i think we need more of that elsewhere, the sentencing of this guy defeats the whole effort. If the government does not look after the interests of it's people, who will? Actions like this are more likely to increase the umber of dissidents, not to mention the harm it does to China's international image.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I understand putting the nation's interests above one's own, and it has definitely worked for you. But this entire social order is based on the assumption that the person at the top is infallible and will always ensures that his decisions are for the better interest of those below him.

However, as an outsider, I have to say it looks like the man was jailed because he led a group of people asking for compensation from a large corporation. His arrest and sentencing could be quite easily interpreted as an attempt to protect the financial interest of the corporation itself. I don't think a man asking for financial compensation for a corporate crime is a dissident or encouraging mass unrest. If the government is keen to protect the interests of it's corporations rather than it's people, then I can only interpret it as the nationalistic tendencies of the people being exploited for the sake of economic growth. If this goes on, the very people who are willing to put their state before themselves will be hurt most and the system will be eroded from within.

While executing the guy responsible for the adulteration was an impressive decision and i think we need more of that elsewhere, the sentencing of this guy defeats the whole effort. If the government does not look after the interests of it's people, who will? Actions like this are more likely to increase the umber of dissidents, not to mention the harm it does to China's international image.

You make some good points.

As before, I don't agree with the decision, and other Chinese members (huzihaidao) have said the same thing.

The question is, do I trust the CCP to do what is best for China? Yes I do, even if I don't agree with some individual decisions.

 

[Solomon2]

I note that U.S. exports of ice cream have picked up sharply in the last year or so, reversing the decade-long trend of Western brand-name production under local license. link Apparently there are still many Chinese who don't trust Chinese milk, and if that number increases China's dairies stand to lose millions of dollars of business.

Well, maybe they should. Does China even have the equivalent of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission? Or Food and Drug Administration?

 

[ChinaRocks]

Sure, corruption is one of the worst problems, and it does make ordinary citizens suffer. And while India is making progress in poverty alleviation, corruption is one aspect where we don't seem to be making much progress. But how is this related to your original contention, on the lines of "Hey, don't talk about human rights, you have poverty"? If you start calling poverty a 'human rights violation', you will have to prosecute more than 60% of the world's leaders for crimes against humanity. Not to mention the fact that China also does have poverty, only to a lesser extent than India. But I wouldn't say that 'China is a human rights violator because it has poverty'!!

Now that s funny....if poverty wasnt a human rights violation then i dont know what is, i thought the idea of human rights is about the right to live , the right to have a job ,the right to have something to eat ect.....and if poverty can give you all those that i mentioned , then u r right i should nt bring poverty into the argument at all.

 

[Hussein]

I suggest you shut up because you do not even know that China is more capitalist than the U.S. now, so shut up, you do not have any common knowledge.

here is a forum not a dictatorship
please respect him

anyway i don't understand why you care so much say it is legal
when it is immoral

 

[SMC]

Consider checking this out first:

YouTube - Man In Jail for Child Support On Kid That Isn't His

 

[Vassnti]

Chinese people historically value "stability", and to that end, the rights of the individual are less important than overall national stability. As Cardsharp said.... this is essentially Utilitarianism, i.e. "the greatest good for the greatest number".

I think the confusion arises in this case from the perception that the man was working for the betterment of the majority. One more or one less person arrested for offending the goverment would probably not make news.

A man jailed for 5 years for trying to defend the children of China from corrupt officials is not a matter of the rights of individuals verses the majority. It is the matter of putting the life of a child ahead of the pocket of a bureaucrat.

A child's life is like a piece of paper on which every person leaves a mark, i cannot belive the mark should be you died for the greater good.

 

[Jackdaws]

I suggest you shut up because you do not even know that China is more capitalist than the U.S. now, so shut up, you do not have any common knowledge.

Where did capitalism come in? Capitalism is a form of economy - the opposite of which is socialism. Communism is a form of government, the polar alternate of which is democracy. Thus you can choose -

1. Capitalism, Democracy like USA
2. Socialism, Democracy like India till 1991
3. Socialism, Communism like USSR
4. Capitalism, Communism like China today

 

[Jackdaws]

Read the decision. I have a feeling it will not be a popular decision in China either. You gotta admire the sheer patriotism that pervades the Chinese people posting here. Criticizing the Chinese Govt. is not the same as criticizing the nation of China or its people. You should do it more often.

You think we don't criticize our Governments? Heck, if we didn't most news channels would shut down.

 

[Alphatech]

You gotta admire the sheer patriotism that pervades the Chinese people posting here. Criticizing the Chinese Govt. is not the same as criticizing the nation of China or its people. You should do it more often.

You think we don't criticize our Governments? Heck, if we didn't most news channels would shut down.

Patriotism is a very admirable virtue, but it should not evolve into blind nationalism. History has taught us that this is the most dangerous thing that can happen to humanity. I know that it would be an extreme example, but do you think the German people all agreed with the Policy of Hitler and the Nazis? They were led to believe that everything they were doing was for the greater good of their country and blindly followed orders even if they knew that what they were doing was morally wrong. Forgive me for suggesting such an extreme example, but the fervent patriotism shown by some people nowadays today takes my mind back to those old days. All it takes is one smart leader who can channel the nation's energy towards his own goals and we can easily have the next holocaust.

Now before some of you jump up and say that I compared the Chinese to Nazis, try to understand what i actually meant. Before you hasten to justify everything that happens in your country, try to leave your patriotism aside for a moment and imagine how you personally feel about it, and then form an opinion.

 

[Jackdaws]

Patriotism is a very admirable virtue, but it should not evolve into blind nationalism. History has taught us that this is the most dangerous thing that can happen to humanity. I know that it would be an extreme example, but do you think the German people all agreed with the Policy of Hitler and the Nazis? They were led to believe that everything they were doing was for the greater good of their country and blindly followed orders even if they knew that what they were doing was morally wrong. Forgive me for suggesting such an extreme example, but the fervent patriotism shown by some people nowadays today takes my mind back to those old days. All it takes is one smart leader who can channel the nation's energy towards his own goals and we can easily have the next holocaust.

Now before some of you jump up and say that I compared the Chinese to Nazis, try to understand what i actually meant.

Nazis were not patriotic - they were jingoistic. There is a big difference. But yes, you have a point. Mao and some of his policies killed more than Hitler's policies did. I have a feeling the Chinese CP has an internal mechanism which prevents psychos from taking over. Can some Chinese shed some light on how the President of China is selected?

 

[ChinaRocks]

Read the decision. I have a feeling it will not be a popular decision in China either. You gotta admire the sheer patriotism that pervades the Chinese people posting here. Criticizing the Chinese Govt. is not the same as criticizing the nation of China or its people. You should do it more often.

You think we don't criticize our Governments? Heck, if we didn't most news channels would shut down.

Why do we have to take critisms from people like you or what have we got to learn from a backward country like india? just because you like to bark does nt mean we have to folow.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I think the confusion arises in this case from the perception that the man was working for the betterment of the majority. One more or one less person arrested for offending the goverment would probably not make news.

A man jailed for 5 years for trying to defend the children of China from corrupt officials is not a matter of the rights of individuals verses the majority. It is the matter of putting the life of a child ahead of the pocket of a bureaucrat.

A child's life is like a piece of paper on which every person leaves a mark, i cannot belive the mark should be you died for the greater good.

I'll say it for the third time:

As before, I don't agree with the decision, and other Chinese members (huzihaidao) have said the same thing.

Not one single Chinese poster in this thread is defending the decision.

What is with all the lectures on morality?