China demands India not to attend the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony

[CardSharp]

Ah I see. I agree that I assumed that this protest by China was actually based on real and/or perceived insult to the nation rather than to the Party and its form of government. In light of your revelation I realize that this is (as you aptly put) play is for domestic consumption. I guess anything less than what the Chinese government is doing right now would have detracted from the perception of power the government has. If I assume correctly, benefits the party would gain from such a stance to its stature as something that brooks no dissent would be twofold...it would impress upon the populous the strength of its will and would also serve as a warning to future dissenters.

However, do you not think that such a policy geared towards internal policies would have a seriously detrimental effect to the world's perception of China in the global arena? Or does the Government not care about the rest of the world's perception of China? I'm curious.

You presume western hostility to China has its roots in human rights, when it is just a facet of their discomfort in seeing a country with a competing world view become successful.

If human right was the penultimate issue, there would be a proportional outrage based on the actual human right offences. When was the last time you heard US mainstream report on what happens in Saudi Arabia?

 

[huzihaidao12]

the rest of the world ？What is that? The Western world? Even if they want to take a three-hundred years of colonial? We really do not care.

 

[TenjikuKensei]

It's not really your decision whether China deems the matter important or not and to presume it is up to you smacks of, if I may dare say, arrogance.

I do not recall claiming that which I posted to be the gospel truth nor did I claim to represent any nation..if a single person could even claim to represent nations of more than a Billion people each in the first place. If you read the first sentence of the thread, it gives a clue to my take on this subject. I'm someone who could be considered a left leaning democratic socialist(I hasten to add that I'm a socialist..not a communist ). Thus I'm always opposed to what I consider excessive government influence on the lives of peoples. (not to the extent the idiotic libertarians are though)

My post was merely my opinion, and on forums like these; opinions are four a penny.

The reason I wondered why China did not explore other ways to the same goal was partly due to my ignorance about one of the main issues facing the PRC(Which you were kind enough to enlighten me in your earlier post...about the need of the government to be concerned about public perception of itself). Till I realized that this was mostly about internal perception; I was quite perplexed about China's approach to this whole issue, which imho could have been handled in a less visible manner.

You seem to have confused my honest curiosity with Arrogance.
However you are entitled to your opinions

 

[CardSharp]

I do not recall claiming that which I posted to be the gospel truth nor did I claim to represent any nation..if a single person could even claim to represent nations of more than a Billion people each in the first place. If you read the first sentence of the thread, it gives a clue to my take on this subject. I'm someone who could be considered a left leaning democratic socialist(I hasten to add that I'm a socialist..not a communist ). Thus I'm always opposed to what I consider excessive government influence on the lives of peoples. (not to the extent the idiotic libertarians are though)

My post was merely my opinion, and on forums like these; opinions are four a penny.

The reason I wondered why China did not explore other ways to the same goal was partly due to my ignorance about one of the main issues facing the PRC(Which you were kind enough to enlighten me in your earlier post...about the need of the government to be concerned about public perception of itself). Till I realized that this was mostly about internal perception; I was quite perplexed about China's approach to this whole issue, which imho could have been handled in a less visible manner.

You seem to have confused my honest curiosity with Arrogance.
However you are entitled to your opinions

Duly noted, but given what's been posted before, I hope you can forgive my suspiciousness.

 

[TenjikuKensei]

You presume western hostility to China has its roots in human rights, when it is just a facet of their discomfort in seeing a country with a competing world view become successful.

If human right was the penultimate issue, there would be a proportional outrage based on the actual human right offences. When was the last time you heard US mainstream report on what happens in Saudi Arabia?

I did not presume anything. I'm afraid you misunderstood my post.When I meant, "world's perception of China in the global arena" I was but referring to the recent requests,and demands by China on many a country not to attend the Nobel Event...definitely not to human rights.

Let me rephrase my question. Would it not be better for China to not make such demands to other nations? Would they not perceive this as bullying? This has nothing to do with human rights. However, such actions can easily be incorporated and even used by other powers who have a vested interest in portraying China as a rising threat. If I were a country, and If I was faced with a similar demand/request from China, I too would be wary. Thus the crux of my question is, wont such actions take a heavy global toll on perception towards China?

Duly noted, but given what's been posted before, I hope you can forgive my suspiciousness.

No offense taken. My reply was to a post on the first page of the thread; I didn't go through the entire thread before I penned my reply, thus didn't really see the way the conversation was going in the following pages.

the rest of the world ？What is that? The Western world? Even if they want to take a three-hundred years of colonial? We really do not care.

Please read my reply to CardSharp in this same post.

 

[misterme2]

^^^^^ i think india should not attend this meeting. visit of chineese premier wen jiabao is likely to herald a new era of peace and partnership between two countries. i am sure our chineese friends would much appreciate this gesture from our side. after all diplomacy is a policy of give and take.

What if China's promises fall empty...then India looks like a pawn in a chess game..

 

[CardSharp]

What if China's promises fall empty...then India looks like a pawn in a chess game..

A gesture isn't a gesture anymore if you demand something tangible in return. A gesture is meant to increase good will.

 

[Spring Onion]

norway dissapointed india over kashmir remarks so there is a chance india may skip it.

))))))))))0 so it would be more to do with Norway than Chinese concern ?

 

[Spring Onion]

What if China's promises fall empty...then India looks like a pawn in a chess game..

Well even if India attend it, It wont harm China in any way after all the prize is already been announced for him and all anti-China countries will attend it.

On the other hand if India abstain then it will benefit India at diplomatic matters' level

 

[TenjikuKensei]

all anti-China countries will attend it.

I couldn't resist replying. Do I see a straw man being set up? or is it merely a false analogy?

 

[Spring Onion]

I couldn't resist replying. Do I see a straw man being set up? or is it merely a false analogy?

do you see US and others who are more China centric will abstain ?

or is it necessary to attack China physically to be an anti-China?

 

[below_freezing]

Ah I see. I agree that I assumed that this protest by China was actually based on real and/or perceived insult to the nation rather than to the Party and its form of government. In light of your revelation I realize that this is (as you aptly put) play is for domestic consumption. I guess anything less than what the Chinese government is doing right now would have detracted from the perception of power the government has. If I assume correctly, benefits the party would gain from such a stance to its stature as something that brooks no dissent would be twofold...it would impress upon the populous the strength of its will and would also serve as a warning to future dissenters.

However, do you not think that such a policy geared towards internal policies would have a seriously detrimental effect to the world's perception of China in the global arena? Or does the Government not care about the rest of the world's perception of China? I'm curious.

there are 3 types of dissent. one is constructive; this is encouraged. one is destructive, hateful, but they don't try to organize. this is actually tolerated. go to tianya.cn (the most popular social forum in china) or even bbs1.people.cn (the forum of people's daily!) and open up google translate to see plenty of that. then there is destructive dissent that tries to organize more people to overthrow the government. that gets cracked down, as Liu found out when he crossed the line from just being an anti-china self hating racist nut to trying to organize more racists.

 

[CardSharp]

there are 3 types of dissent. one is constructive; this is encouraged. one is destructive, hateful, but they don't try to organize. this is actually tolerated. go to tianya.cn (the most popular social forum in china) or even bbs1.people.cn (the forum of people's daily!) and open up google translate to see plenty of that. then there is destructive dissent that tries to organize more people to overthrow the government. that gets cracked down, as Liu found out when he crossed the line from just being an anti-china self hating racist nut to trying to organize more racists.

I think many Chinese people find these dissents and protesters distasteful, not least because many of them saw the incredible stupidity and cruelty that resulted from such unbridled populism in the cultural revolution.


Not to mention Liu Xiaobo is one of those of the "lost generation", no schooling, no parents.

"I very much thank the Cultural Revolution. I was a child then, I could do whatever I wanted to. Parents were gone doing the revolution. Schools ceased classes. I was able to temporarily get rid of educational procedures, and do what I wanted to do, to play, to fight, I lived happily."

I think Liu Xiaobo strong identifies with those people, those times and those methods for bring about change. This is why, he should never be given a role in China's transition.

 

[Peacefull]

West does not consider Indians & Chinese races as equal no matter what.

Its about time India Abstained Nobel Prize. It has no value since it was declined to MK Gandhi.

 

[hembo]

A gesture isn't a gesture anymore if you demand something tangible in return. A gesture is meant to increase good will.

Very true. People who are of the opinion that India (or any other country for that matter) should try to negotiate something out of China are being... errrr... too materialistic. A good gesture goes a long way compared to a good negotiation.