China Communist Party Intrudes In Mosque Life

[chauism]

To be fair, Hui has some problems too, although they're mostly on the receiving end. Tibetans hate them with a passion, boycotting their business and burning down their mosques.

You won't hear it often on the news though, as Chinese government censors it to preserve 'social harmony' and international news outlets generally get Tibetan news from the exiles and the exiles suppress such news to protect their image as peaceful and tolerant.

I know their problem with the Tibetans, but generally the government has been pretty easy on them as compare to everyone else.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

I don't think you understand how to read english. please go back and read it again, if you want to understand. Politics isn't even a required class for half the school (unlike US where everyone has to take US politics).

There is no class that is required in US schools called US politics. There is one called US Goverment thats required in highschool, it normally covers such subjects as the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the make up of the differant branchs of Goverment.

 

[below_freezing]

There is no class that is required in US schools called US politics. There is one called US Goverment thats required in highschool, it normally covers such subjects as the Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the make up of the differant branchs of Goverment.

pure political indoctrination. why else would it be a required class?

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

pure political indoctrination. why else would it be a required class?

Well there are differant kind of countries, in some the people are treated like Mushrooms,that is to say,Being kept in the dark and fed nothing but bull crap. Bull Crap is another term for Censorship and if you dont eat the Bull Crap, you end up in a re-education camp. If you like I can provide vidios..

Then there is democracy, it takes education, every american should know what his rights and responsibities are and how the american democratic system works other wise you can end up like China with out any rights at all.

 

[below_freezing]

Well there are differant kind of countries, in some the people are treated like Mushrooms,that is to say,Being kept in the dark and fed nothing but bull crap. Bull Crap is another term for Censorship and if you dont eat the Bull Crap, you end up in a re-education camp. If you like I can provide vidios..

Then there is democracy, it takes education, every american should know what his rights and responsibities are and how the american democratic system works other wise you can end up like China with out any rights at all.

nope, political indoctrination. US is a pig farm.

 

[EjazR]

The Kashmiris are muslims and are not anti-pakistan. The Ughairs on other side have open hostility towards Pakistan, thanks to ummah politics mentality. Secondly Ughairs have their own made up sect where they openly consumate alcohol and pork. The "muslim" status of Ughairs at best is suspected much like those of Ahmedis and Qadianiys. We need to calm down emotionalism and see the real picture. A large part of Muslim world does not recocnize Ughairs as muslims and side with Chinese policy on Xinjiang.

This is quite wrong, Uighur muslims are ethnic Turks and are sunni muslims. Turkey has always raised their voice on the turkistanis as they are called by them Everyone in the muslim world recognises them as muslims. However, because of the Communist repression of religion, many young Uighurs are losing their touch with religion

While religious supression does run in China so does in USA, Europe and even Saudi Arabia. Most of the countries are not content with mullahs callin on youth to overthrow government, promote sepratism, enforcing made up medival laws under banner of "sharia" etc etc..we had experience in northern Pak. Whooo let the mullahs out??

This is not about separatism, its about religious freedom. Islam does not teach establishing independent muslim states just because you are in majority. However, religious freedom is of paramount importance in Islam. China is a league in its own here. They should atleast give the same level of freedom as they give in Hong Kong for example where people can go with their kids to mosque and pray and there is hardly any interference from the state.

Seriously?? So what is Chinese hajj mission doing in KSA??
????? ??????? ???????? - ???

Thousands of pilgrims come from China each year for Hajj and Umrah. And guess what?? They are one of the most organised, puntual and well planned hajjis around.

That is very good, there are 20 million Uighurs in China. Here is an alternative report on this.
China Prevents Muslims from Hajj

Many Ughairs were arrested from TTP camps and handed back to China. Some of them were also involved in bombing targets inside Pakistan.

Yes that was wrong of them and there are some Uighurs who are fighting for an independent Muslim homeland. That is because they are confused when they have been confused by the thinking that just because muslims are in majority in a region they should become a separate state.

 

[chauism]

Here is an article that has a deep insight on how different Hui Muslims to other religious minorities are in China, and why they are treated better than other minorities in China and being hated by Tibetans and even Uyghurs. As I said before, it has more to do with political motivation of the minorities rather than religion itself.

The Relation of the Hui Muslims with the Tibetans and Uighurs, 1996

The Relation of the Hui Muslims with the Tibetans and Uighurs, 1996
Alexander Berzin
November 1996
The Uighurs
The two major Islamic minorities in the People's Republic of China are the Uighurs and the Hui. Both follow the Sunna form of Islam, mixed with several schools of Central Asian Sufism. The Uighurs are a Turkic people who came originally from the Altai Mountain region north of western Mongolia. After ruling Mongolia from the early eighth to the mid-ninth centuries CE, they migrated to East Turkistan (Chin. Xinjiang). They have been the predominant ethnic group of the region ever since and speak their own Turkic language. The Uighurs, however, are not a unified people. As in the past, they identify primarily with their oasis cities. The term "Uighur" to refer to all of them has, in fact, only been used since the late nineteenth century to unify their resistance against the Manchu Qing Dynasty.

As a whole, the Uighurs are a relaxed gentle people who, like the Tibetans, do not have a Protestant work ethic. They do not see work as a virtue in itself and also value enjoying life. Their level of knowledge and practice of Islam is fairly low, and the style of their mosques and customs are Central Asian. Those in the central and northern parts of Xinjiang have now become strongly Sinified. Mostly only the old people go to the mosques, which are not kept in good condition. Islam is stronger among the Uighurs in southern Xinjiang where there has been a relatively small Han presence. It is practiced there in a more traditional form than among the Hui.

The Hui
The Hui are from divers ethnic origins, primarily Arab, Persian, Central Asian, and Mongol, and live throughout China. They came originally as merchants and conscripted soldiers, starting in the mid-seventh century. In the mid-fourteenth century, they were forced to intermarry with Han Chinese. Consequently, they speak Chinese and their customs and mosques are all Chinese style. The other Muslim minorities of China have traditionally been highly critical of the Hui's adaptation of Islamic practices to Han ways of life.

In general, the Hui lack the Middle Eastern/Central Asian relaxed attitude towards life and share the Chinese aggressive ambition for trade and money. Like the Tibetans, many carry knives and are fast to use them. They divide into two major groups. The Western Hui live in Ningxia, southern Gansu, and eastern Qinghai, bordering Amdo (northeastern Tibet); while the Eastern Hui are spread throughout northern China and eastern Inner Mongolia.

The Western Hui
Among the Western Hui, Islam is relatively strong as a unifying force and continues to grow. Both young and old go to the mosques, which function as a social meeting-place for exchanging information. These mosques are much wealthier and kept much cleaner than their Uighur counterparts. Despite the presence of Islamic schools in the Hui cultural capital, Lingxia, teaching mostly the traditional Sufi sects, with even some meditation masters, the vast majority of Western Hui know hardly anything deep about Islam.

The Western Hui seem to succumb less to the present pressures of Sinification than the Uighurs, perhaps because they are already so Sinified and speak exclusively Chinese. For example, only those Uighur women who live in remote villages in southern Xinjiang wear scarves on their heads, whereas Western Hui women wear them even in Han Chinese dominated cities.

The Eastern Hui
The Eastern Hui are less traditional than the Western Hui. Although approximately eighty per cent, both young and old, are believers in Islam, few come to prayers. The Eastern Hui still slaughter their animals according to the "halal" procedures and do not eat pork. Many, however, smoke and drink alcohol, which is against the Quran. Some observe the Ramadan fast, but very few of the men are circumcised and the women do not wear headscarves.

Privileged Position of the Hui
The Hui have enjoyed more privileges in the People's Republic of China than other non-Han minorities, primarily because they have been diplomatic and cooperated greatly. Take the example of Ma Bufang, the powerful Hui warlord of Qinghai, Gansu, and Ningxia in the late 1930s and 40s with whom the Tibetans had to negotiate in order to bring the baby Fourteenth {D.} Lama from his birthplace there to Lhasa. In the late 1940s, he allied with the communist Han Chinese forces and unified the regions under his control with theirs. Some Hui are still bitter over this, since he favored the division of the Hui among themselves and unification with the Han over unity of the Hui. Consequently, there are still many regional divisions among the Hui, with local mafia allegiances as during the warlord era. Because of this cooperation and the diplomatic espousal of both Maoism and Islam, plus pressure on China from Middle Eastern countries for respect of Islam in exchange for trade privileges, there has been a large proliferation of new mosques. These have been built primarily by the Hui, not the Uighurs.

Hui Migration
For centuries, the Hui have been spreading out and settling throughout China, primarily as merchants. Even during the Mongol Yuan dynasty, Muslims accompanied the Mongol tribute missions to Beijing in order to conduct trade. The Uighurs and Tibetan Muslims, by contrast, have remained isolated in their homelands. This difference is perhaps due to the Hui being descended from merchants and mercenary soldiers, whereas both the Uighur and Tibetan Muslims came to their present locations as refugees driven out of their homelands in Mongolia and Kashmir respectively. Thus, the present migration of Muslim merchants to Central Tibet is nothing new in Hui history. They are not being forcefully relocated to Tibet by the Han Chinese authorities, but are moving on their own initiative for a business motive.

Western Hui have been moving not only into Tibet, but also all over Gansu and Xinjiang as the pioneers for Han Chinese settlement. They open restaurants and shops along all the roads, and as soon as there are a small number of them in any locality, they build a mosque - usually as a social gathering place to keep their communities together, rather than because of religious zeal. Not only do the Tibetans resent the Hui immigration; but so do the Uighurs. Although the Han Chinese army and bureaucracy have moved in first, Han traders and businessmen, lacking the pioneering spirit of the Hui, have only followed in their footsteps.

Contrast between the Tibetan and Hui Mentalities
Many Tibetans still have a nomadic mentality, with a fierce desire for independence, especially freedom of movement. In general, they dislike routine work. Even if they have shops, many will run them only seasonally, frequently closing them for long holidays, pilgrimages, picnics, and so on. Even in India, many Tibetans seasonally migrate to the Indian cities to sell sweaters, go on pilgrimage, attend Buddhist discourses, and only work part of the year. By contrast, the Hui, as well as the Han, are interested only in money and business, and they stay put in their shops and street stalls from 6 AM to 10 PM year-round without moving.

The Hui, being very ingenious as well as industrious, have taken over the manufacture and sale of traditional Tibetan goods, and the Tibetans cannot, and do not even seem to want to compete. The Hui are making Tibetan-style jewelry, rosaries, and other religious paraphernalia, equipment for horses, knives, wool, carpets, musical instruments, shoes and noodles, as well as running the ubiquitous restaurants. The Han merchants come only later and sell mostly modern Chinese manufactured goods like toothbrushes and cheap Chinese clothing.

Tibetan and Uighur Autonomy Movements
The Tibetans and Uighurs see the Hui immigrants, more than the Han, as a greater threat to their cultures. As the Hui and Uighurs share Islam in common, it is evident that the tension does not arise from religious grounds, but from economic competition. The Han Chinese seem to encourage this tension, so as to use it to justify their military occupation to keep the peace and prevent another Bosnia.

Thus, the Tibetan and Uighur movements for true autonomy or even independence have nothing to do with Buddhist or Islamic fundamentalism. They arise from the shared wish to preserve their cultures, religions, and languages from being overwhelmed and marginalized by the policies of the People's Republic of China and by the waves of Han and Hui settlers. The Hui, on the other hand, do not hold similar aspirations, as they share so much in common with the Han Chinese and have never had an independent state.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Communism and Modern Religion (I)

What would be your reaction if your child found in an encyclopedia this definition under "God" -- "A mythical invented being?'' Would you be shocked? Would you be moved with indignation? Just what would be your reaction? Whatever, this is the experience of parents in Soviet Russia. In the Large Soviet Encyclopedia, second edition, volume 5, (published 1950), the Word "God" is defined as "A mythical invented "being."

This is a step in a well-developed program to destroy faith in God and to establish atheistic materialism throughout the world. V. I. Lenin said, "Atheism is a material and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific Socialism. In accordance with their fundamental philosophical outlook, Marx and Engels always called themselves materialists.1' Notice the words atheism, socialism, and materialism. These words describe the international conspiracy of Communism.

In pointing out the goals of Communism, we may do this by referring to three of its basic laws. In denying individual worth and human rights, moral values and responsibility, dialectic materialism affirms that --

1. There is no God. And therefore every moral and virtue that originates with God is denied.

2. Man is a materialistic machine. Man is thought of as the total product of evolution, and who may be improved by animal husbandry.

3. Economic determinism dictates all that is accepted as being right.

Communism and Modern Religion (I)

dialectic materialism was a required class in USSR secondary schools.

 

[Brotherhood]

Communism and Modern Religion (I)

What would be your reaction if your child found in an encyclopedia this definition under "God" -- "A mythical invented being?'' Would you be shocked? Would you be moved with indignation? Just what would be your reaction? Whatever, this is the experience of parents in Soviet Russia. In the Large Soviet Encyclopedia, second edition, volume 5, (published 1950), the Word "God" is defined as "A mythical invented "being."

This is a step in a well-developed program to destroy faith in God and to establish atheistic materialism throughout the world. V. I. Lenin said, "Atheism is a material and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific Socialism. In accordance with their fundamental philosophical outlook, Marx and Engels always called themselves materialists.1' Notice the words atheism, socialism, and materialism. These words describe the international conspiracy of Communism.

In pointing out the goals of Communism, we may do this by referring to three of its basic laws. In denying individual worth and human rights, moral values and responsibility, dialectic materialism affirms that --

1. There is no God. And therefore every moral and virtue that originates with God is denied.

2. Man is a materialistic machine. Man is thought of as the total product of evolution, and who may be improved by animal husbandry.

3. Economic determinism dictates all that is accepted as being right.

Communism and Modern Religion (I)

dialectic materialism was a required class in USSR secondary schools.

OMG, what a clown, posting an article dated back in Truth Magazine VIII: 5, pp. 19-20, 24 February 1964

 

[huzihaidao12]

To get technical, yes they have, the article below is my proof. While being veiled in their own efforts, we are told to tackle militancy because FATA is the only master haven for Etim. Not the case as we blew away their leader since 2003. But this thread is not a tit for tat, or an opportunity to screw up an important alliance between Pak and China and I would to a real problem in China, and for the betterment of our ally we should not be quiet about the suppression of religious minorities in China to an extent that it affects the average person and belittles are own stances.never cross that line because it also negates the point of this discussion. I am however not amused by people turning a blind eye

China orders Pak to tackle militancy

I do not think it was Pakistan's "internal affairs", because it is related to China, this is where China needs Pakistan's help, of course, the same, if there is power against Pakistan in the Chinese territory , China will destroy him, which is to protect the interests of mutual.

 

[desiman]

It's offtopic but What i realise from this thread is that all the ummah love expressed by pakistani members in various threads about indian muslims was just to divide hindus and muslims in india!If it was in india that government banned muslims under 18 from entering mosques(which i dont think is a bad thing) these pakistanis would be jumping with ummah love,where are they now?when it comes to china as mehru said it is just "china's internal matter",when it comes to india it's the matter of "ummah"beyond all evil things like nationality!I have seen many pakistanis in this forum saying indian muslims should not be loyal to hindu india,but when it comes to china anyone(say uighur)who is not loyal to non muslim china is a terrorist.When people use religion and conveniently forgets it whenever each of it suit their agenda,they are gonna reap big time for what they have sowed.

I was just going to say that, What Double standards Pakistan has over muslims, its almost amusing. Anything happens to Muslims in India and Pakistan stands up as the leader of the Ummah and all the bllshit but when the something happens to Muslims in China, they conveniently forget it or justify it. This double edged thinking has now penetrated into Pakistani society and is the major cause of all their troubles. This notion also translates into the concept of terrorism, where you have the good terrorist vs Bad terrorist debate. That is why I laugh when Pakistan talks about the freedom of Muslims in India, all that crap is just another political drama and nothing else, Kashmir is also just another part of that whole double standard's thinking too. Double standards is the name of the game here.

 

[Iggy]

You know when i had discussion with some so called guardians of Islam about muslims in India in this forum ..i asked why this double standard when it comes to muslims in China and India??,then most of the people say open a thread about it and we will post there..so far i dont see any of them here

 

[huzihaidao12]

You know when i had discussion with some so called guardians of Islam about muslims in India in this forum ..i asked why this double standard when it comes to muslims in China and India??,then most of the people say open a thread about it and we will post there..so far i dont see any of them here

Is simple, India should know why. Muslims in India and Pakistan have some relations, for historical reasons.

 

[huzihaidao12]

China's religion is there own characteristics, such as


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=128628514

Female Imams Blaze Trail Amid China's Muslims

by Louisa Lim
July 21, 2010

It is 5:50 in the morning, and dark shadows scurry through narrow alleys to the mosque, as the call to prayer echoes from a minaret in Kaifeng. This city in central China's Henan province has an Islamic enclave, where Muslims have lived for more than 1,000 years.

In an alleyway called Wangjia hutong, women go to their own mosque, where Yao Baoxia leads prayers. For 14 years, Yao has been a female imam, or ahong as they are called here, a word derived from Persian.

As she leads the service, Yao stands alongside the other women, not in front of them as a male imam would. But she says her role is the same as a male imam.

"The status is the same," Yao says confidently. "Men and women are equal here, maybe because we are a socialist country."

Yao Baoxia is a female ahong, or imam, at Wangjia Hutong Women's Mosque in Kaifeng, in central China. She sits alongside believers during prayers, not in front of them like male imams. She believes male and female imams are equal in their role as teachers and leaders of prayers.

Yao Baoxia is a female ahong, or imam, at Wangjia Hutong Women's Mosque in Kaifeng, in central China. She sits alongside believers during prayers, not in front of them like male imams. She believes male and female imams are equal in their role as teachers and leaders of prayers.

China has an estimated 21 million Muslims, who have developed their own set of Islamic practices with Chinese characteristics. The biggest difference is the development of independent women's mosques with female imams, something scholars who have researched the issue say is unique to China.

Yao studied to become an imam for four years, after being laid off from her job as a factory worker. First she studied under a female imam, then with a male imam alongside male students.

Her main role is as a teacher, she says.

"When people come to pray, they don't know how to chant the Quran, so my job is teaching people about Islam, helping them to study one line at a time and leading the prayers," she says.


Mosques Began As Quranic Schools

The modest courtyard of Wangjia Hutong Women's Mosque contains within it the entire history of China's mosques for females. It's the oldest surviving women's mosque in China, with one gray plaque high up on a wall dating back to 1820.

Like other women's mosques, it began as a Quranic school for girls. These sprang up in the late 17th century in central China, including Shanxi and Shandong provinces. They morphed into women's mosques about 100 years ago, starting in Henan province.

Remembering her own childhood, 83-year-old Tang Guiying says even then the women's mosque was the only place a girl could receive education.

Women at the Wangjia mosque work early in the morning in the kitchen. The mosques began as Quranic schools for girls in the late 17th century. They were the only places girls could receive an education; now, they also serve as community centers.

Women at the Wangjia mosque work early in the morning in the kitchen. The mosques began as Quranic schools for girls in the late 17th century. They were the only places girls could receive an education; now, they also serve as community centers.

"I didn't go to school when I was small," she chuckles. "We were all too poor; none of us girls studied. But I came here to play and study. The old imam was very, very old — she was 80-something, and she had bound feet."

Tang is sitting in the mosque's washroom as she talks. This is where women conduct ritual ablutions before prayer. This space — and the mosque itself — doubles as a social center for these women, the heart of a community.

In Kaifeng, there are 16 women's mosques, one-third the number of mosques for males.


A Unique Chinese Tradition

Shui Jingjun, of the Henan Academy of Social Sciences and co-author of a book on the phenomenon, says that so far there are no women's mosques in other countries. In most of the Muslim world, women pray behind a partition or in a separate room, but in the same mosque as men.

Shui points out that the women's mosques in China are administered independently, by women for women, in addition to being legally separate entities in some cases.

"After reform and opening up [in 1979], some female mosques registered independently, which shows the equality of male and female mosques," she explains.

Controversy still rages in the Muslim world about whether women can be imams. In 2006, Morocco became the first country in the Arab world to officially sanction the training of female religious leaders.

China is the only country to have such a long history of female imams. However, there are things that, according to the customary practices of Chinese Muslims, female imams can't do.

They can't, for instance, lead funeral rituals or wash male corpses.

Forty miles away in the provincial capital of Zhengzhou, white-sashed mourners wail as they process through the streets carrying the coffin from a mosque. No female imams are participating.


Opposition Still Exists To Women's Roles

In central China, most Muslims support the female mosques, but there is some resistance closer to China's border with Pakistan and Afghanistan, closer to the harder-line Wahhabi and Salafi influences.

"Historically in northwestern China, there were no female mosques," says Shui, the researcher. "There was resistance because people thought that building female mosques was against the rules of religion. But in central China and most provinces, people think it's a good innovation for Islam."

In the past decade, some women's mosques have been established in northwest China. The phenomenon appears to be spreading, helped politically by the Islamic Association of China, a state-controlled body that regulates Islam and issues licenses to practice to male and female imams alike.

Women pray at a the Wangjia mosque in Kaifeng. There are 16 women's mosques in the city, one-third the number of mosques serving male Muslims.

Women pray at a the Wangjia mosque in Kaifeng. There are 16 women's mosques in the city, one-third the number of mosques serving male Muslims.

This is part of the anomaly that is religion in China — the atheist Chinese authorities are endorsing a practice some Muslims find unacceptable.

While there is broad support among Kaifeng's Muslims for female mosques and imams, there is also some opposition.

"The education of Islamic women is a very important job," says Guo Baoguang, of the Islamic Association of Kaifeng. But he admits that he has been criticized for organizing religious education forums for Muslim men and women to take part in together.

"There were some criticisms that women ought to be in the home, and ought not take part in social activities. I think these criticisms are too conservative, and don't account of the importance of women's education in Islam," he says.

Guo believes that when it comes to female imams, China is leading the way.

"Given the fast development of China's economy, and as its political status rises, I think Chinese Islam will become more important in the Islamic world," Guo says. "The developments Chinese Islam has made, like the role played by Chinese women, will be more accepted by Muslims elsewhere in the world."

For Bai Yanlian becoming a female imam took seven years of study, including three years of Arabic-language training. She then had to take an exam to get a license from the state.

For Bai Yanlian becoming a female imam took seven years of study, including three years of Arabic-language training. She then had to take an exam to get a license from the state.


Greatest Challenge Is Economic

In the women's mosques, most of the faithful are elderly. Young women with families often don't have the time to worship, especially given the lengthy purification rituals several times a day.

Third-generation imam Sun Chengying, who has been practicing for 21 years, worries about the future.

"I haven't had any students since 1996," she says, shaking her head. "Women don't want be imams anymore, because the salaries in the mosques are too low. No one is willing to do it."

Female imams sometimes earn as little as $40 a month, one-third of what can be earned in other jobs. Younger women need to earn more to support their families.

And so it appears the future of female imams in China is threatened — not by the state, not by resistance from inside Islam, but by the forces of market economics.

 

[Iggy]

Is simple, India should know why. Muslims in India and Pakistan have some relations, for historical reasons.

lolz if you say so