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[Sanchez]

54th is the Su-30MKK regiment
53th is the regiment at Wudangshan training base with JJ-7.

Don't know the recent changes with planes but the 54th MKK are with 20x9x

 

[Deino]

54th is the Su-30MKK regiment
53th is the regiment at Wudangshan training base with JJ-7.

Don't know the recent changes with planes but the 54th MKK are with 20x9x

Hmmm ... but 54th Regiment would mean 21x9x (01-50) serials and at least at GE there are the J-7Bs at Wudangshan.

 

[j20blackdragon]

One of the most important functions of the FTTC is to establish a certain level of interoperability within the PLAAF. That is the reason why so many different planes go to FTTC first. J-10B, J-10C, and J-20 are all expected to work together during a war. The FTTC's job is to create the necessary tactics/techniques/training that would allow them to do so. Su-35 didn't even go to FTTC. How do you expect Su-35 to work with any other plane?

Good point ... so what units within the 18. Division could be ?

52nd Air Regiment - Wuhan-Shanpo - J-7B
53rd Air Regiment - Changsha / City - Su-30MKK
54th Air Regiment - Wudangshan - J-7B, JJ-7A

Probably both J-7B-units are prime candidates for a replacement ??

The elite divisions within the PLAAF are usually the first to be rewarded with new planes, and they usually will have at least one J-10 regiment along with one Flanker regiment. 18th Division has two J-7 regiments, which means they never received a J-10 upgrade all these years. The Su-30MKKs were delivered in 2003. That means they received their newest planes 14 years ago. Pilots have experience with third-gen and foreign Russian aircraft with little (or perhaps none) interoperability between planes. Pilots are probably old guys flying old planes. The only notable characteristic about 18th Division is that they run an aggressor program.

Su-35 skipped over the FTTC and went straight over to the unremarkable 18th Division. They didn't even bother to blur the serial numbers to hide this fact. What does that tell you?

Think about it like this. If the Su-35 actually went to an elite regiment, they would blur the serial numbers to hide the location of this regiment. Why do you guys think we have so few pictures of J-16 with yellow serial numbers? Because they don't want you to know the locations of the elite regiments receiving this aircraft.

 

[Sanchez]

@Deino 21x9x serials belong to the 53th regiment that was a training unit previously under Guangzhou military region air force command.

@j20blackdragon At least two of the four Su-35 were flown to the 2th division stationed in Zanjiang，GD， with serial numbers of 11X3X.

You guys could visit the official page of China‘s DoD http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/，check out photo reports of Feb 5.

 

[Deino]

@Deino 21x9x serials belong to the 53th regiment that was a training unit previously under Guangzhou military region air force command.

Hmmm ... but - sorry if I'm wrong - then could You please explain why the 53rd and 54th Regiment do not follow the typical PLAAF-serial numbering system: Within each Division - for example the 18th Division - the serials are all within the range of 2xx8x, for the first Regiment (here the 52nd) the xxx numbers are 001 to maximum x49, for the second Regiment (here the 53rd) the xxx numbers are 050 to maximum x99 and for the third Regiment (here the 54th) the xxx numbers are 101 to maximum 150.

Consequently the Su-30MKKs with xxx = 0xx serials are from the 53rd Regiment; Or how can You explain this off-sequence numbers ?

@j20blackdragon At least two of the four Su-35 were flown to the 2th division stationed in Zanjiang，GD， with serial numbers of 11X3X.

You guys could visit the official page of China‘s DoD http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/，check out photo reports of Feb 2.

Concerning this, the link (even if broken) does indeed show several 2nd Division Flankers (Su-27SK/J-11A and Su-27UBK) but not a single Su-35, at least not clearly showing their serials. Or am I wrong ?

Thanks for that discussion and I'm eager to learn more ..

Deino

 

[Sanchez]

@Deino I can only confirm that 20x9x is the 54th stationed at Changsha（http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-865526-1-1.html?_dsign=5558561a）and 11x3x the 6th regiment stationed at Suixi （Su-27s http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-722136-1-1.html）. The 53th regiment （http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1353578-1-1.html）

Among the photos published on the official webpage there’s an opague image that many fans considered as the new Su-35. From the last October people have been talking the Su-35s will go to the 2nd div that has Su-27s right now. On Dec 25 last year eye witnesses wrote in a forum that he saw two Su-35s arrived at Suixi. There‘s no confirmation yet.

As to the Su-35 with Russian camo and opague “21xxx” numbers they are certainly not in the 54th regiment！

 

[Deino]

@Deino I can only confirm that 20x9x is the 54th stationed at Changsha（http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-865526-1-1.html?_dsign=5558561a）and 11x3x the 6th regiment stationed at Suixi （Su-27s http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-722136-1-1.html）. The 53th regiment （http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-1353578-1-1.html）

Among the photos published on the official webpage there’s an opague image that many fans considered as the new Su-35. From the last October people have been talking the Su-35s will go to the 2nd div that has Su-27s right now. On Dec 25 last year eye witnesses wrote in a forum that he saw two Su-35s arrived at Suixi. There‘s no confirmation yet.

Thanks a lot and please don't me wrong; my questions are not meant as critics; I only wonder why this number-plate swap between 53rd & 54th AR within the 18th Division?

My concern is only that these numbers show the aircraft only and not the Regimental numbers ... So I fully agree with You that the MKK in 20x9x-serials are at Changsha, but may I ask where You know the Regimental number from ... and would a Regimental number-swap not result also in a renumbering ?

As to the Su-35 with Russian camo and opague “21xxx” numbers they are certainly not in the 54th regiment！

That's for sure ... but as far as I know this blurred image is showing a Su-30MKK and a "maybe" Su-35 in the background, which itself would hint to the 18th Division. Not sure if these images showing Flankers from the 2nd Division were from the same base.

Thanks again,
Deino

 

[j20blackdragon]

huitong personally confirms on sinodefence that Su-35 went to 18th Division. Deino liked the post.
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-purchase-of-su-35.t5915/page-242

Like I said before, Su-35 skipped over the FTTC (best pilots/personnel in PLAAF) and instead was relegated to the unremarkable 18th Division, which just so happens to be one of the few divisions that run an aggressor program. The 'blue camo' color scheme of the Su-35 is further evidence.

Aggressor squadrons use enemy tactics, techniques, and procedures to give a realistic simulation of a real adversary. 18th Division is well suited to simulate Vietnam. 18th Division pilots have experience with obsolete J-7B and Su-30MKK, perfect for the simulation of Vietnamese MiG-21 and Su-30MK2V.

 

[Deino]

huitong personally confirms on sinodefence that Su-35 went to 18th Division. Deino liked the post.
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-purchase-of-su-35.t5915/page-242
View attachment 375602

Like I said before, Su-35 skipped over the FTTC (best pilots/personnel in PLAAF) and instead was relegated to the unremarkable 18th Division, which just so happens to be one of the few divisions that run an aggressor program. The 'blue camo' color scheme of the Su-35 is further evidence.

Aggressor squadrons use enemy tactics, techniques, and procedures to give a realistic simulation of a real adversary. 18th Division is well suited to simulate Vietnam. 18th Division pilots have experience with obsolete J-7B and Su-30MKK, perfect for the simulation of Vietnamese MiG-21 and Su-30MK2V.

Yes ... but first of all even if Huitong is IMO a remarkable source of information, he's not free of faults (just look at the WS-15 he posted too), as such I beg to wait until we call it confirmed.

I agree with You - and as such with him too - that by now most points hint to the 18th Division, but honestly I do not understand why You need to remind that often that the 18th Division is "unremarkable".

Anyway ... can't wait for finally a very clear image showing the full serial numbers.

 

[j20blackdragon]

I would say YES !
I find esp. the edge of the vertical tail's trailing edge quite characteristically. On the Su-35 it is vertical, even a bit leaning backward, while in a Su-27SK/J-11A it is leaning forward.

View attachment 375102

 

[Sanchez]

What do You think of this idea ??

https://twitter.com/x/status/827833113569005568

View attachment 374351

This type of Chinese Su-35 camo is PSed as the person who made it admitted. It came out originally on the his Chinese Weibo.

 

[Deino]

This type of Chinese Su-35 camo is PSed as the person who made it admitted. It came out originally on the his Chinese Weibo.

Sorry, but do You mean this image You quoted ? This was made by me in an attempt to make the serial numbers more visible!
Or do You mean the other two, but that would mean all two "clearer" images are PSed ??

Deino

 

[Sanchez]

I meant the “original” ones, the Russian camo with PLAAF serials in yellow.

 

[Deino]

I meant the “original” ones, the Russian camo with PLAAF serials in yellow.

But as far as I know it was proven that they were real !!

Even more since this would mean all three must be PSed what again is unlikely. Did he show the original Russian images and did he explain how he made them ?

If that is true what You say, so we are back again at point Zero ?

Deino

 

[Sanchez]

But as far as I know it was proven that they were real !!

Even more since this would mean all three must be PSed what again is unlikely. Did he show the original Russian images and did he explain how he made them ?

View attachment 376531

If that is true what You say, so we are back again at point Zero ?

Deino

It‘s from a web runner，www.meyet.com. Yes，we definitely know nothing about where these birds are.