China 1992, India 2012

[ChinaToday]

LOL, you are not behind anyone in terms of your space program?

China sent a human being into space in 2003.

India will only begin to start the selection of astronauts for their space program in 2020, and even that is optimistic, considering the poor organizational skills of India (Commonwealth Games). And that is just for "selection", it will likely take several more years for them to actually get into space.

As for innovation, please refer to both of the Global Innovation Indexes.

Global Innovation Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the record, both these indexes place China at a significantly higher level than India, and we are moving upwards too. While India is in fact falling downwards in the ranks.

Mate talking to idiots or trolls is complete waste of time unless you are having fun seeing them making a fool of themself LOL

 

[newdelhinsa]

Thanks for the info but the main article is not saying that India is better than China. All that is being expressed is the authors view of how India is developing via viz China during the same period of growth and reform.

Why they would bother to comprehend it. They are paid to post copy past graphs, pictures, and links whenever ''India and China'' words flash on any thread.

 

[Martian2]

So what is new in that. We are consumption driven economy, while you are export driven one, hence your surplus

The significance of twenty years of Chinese trade surpluses is that China's industrial economy is sustainable. There is a tremendous demand among foreign customers for Chinese manufactured products.

In contrast, India's accumulation of large trade deficits for twenty years must be repaid with interest. Also, it shows that there is far less demand for Indian products than Indian demand for foreign goods.

Due to India's inability to balance its trade, Indian companies will have to purchase far less foreign components in the future. This will lead to a much lower level of finished Indian products for export.

To put it in simple terms, China's trade surpluses add a net increase to its GDP growth. India's significant chronic trade deficits and interest payments lead to a continuous drag on Indian GDP growth. Therefore, China's economy will keep booming and India's economy will not.

 

[Jade]

Mate talking to idiots or trolls is complete waste of time unless you are having fun seeing them making a fool of themself LOL

And that is what people say when they cannot win an argument

---------- Post added at 07:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 AM ----------

The significance of twenty years of Chinese trade surpluses is that China's industrial economy is sustainable. There is a tremendous demand among foreign customers for Chinese manufactured products.

In contrast, India's accumulation of large trade deficits for twenty years must be repaid with interest. Also, it shows that there is far less demand for Indian products than Indian demand for foreign goods.

Due to India's inability to balance its trade, Indian companies will have to purchase far less foreign components in the future. This will lead to a much lower level of finished Indian products for export.

To put it in simple terms, China's trade surpluses add a net increase to its GDP growth. India's significant chronic trade deficits and interest payments lead to a continuous drag on Indian GDP growth. Therefore, China's economy will keep booming and India's economy will not.

Good argument, but wrong conclusion

 

[newdelhinsa]

Roy the Aramsogo guy has tricked you. He stared with comparing India and China but after getting debunked he said he was comparing USA and India. That is the facility of having two flags .

 

[Martian2]

The most important reason that India cannot rise in manufacturing is the existence of China. For example, there can only be one Wall Street, Hollywood, etc.

China has already sucked out all of the oxygen in the room by being the world's largest manufacturer and exporter. It is impossible to displace China. China ascended and became a superpowerful industrial economic power, because the American government foolishly placed military considerations above economics.

Take machine tools for example. The United States restricted the exports of machine tools to everyone in the non-Western world. The United States did not want non-Western countries to industrialize. This left the machine-tool market wide open for China to fill the space. Hence, China has become the world's largest machine-tool manufacturer and a growing exporter.

Another example is the LED market. China has the financial resources to build billion-dollar plants and the customers to justify it.

Unfortunately for India, it is stuck in a perennial chicken-and-egg problem. India lacks the money to build billion-dollar semiconductor or LED plants, because it lacks customers. Also, since India has no customers for LEDs or semiconductors, India does not have the scientific and engineering expertise to build LED and semiconductor plants.

Finally, India can never compete on price (and quality) against the scale of entrenched Chinese manufacturers in LEDs, semiconductors, electronics, machine tools, large earth-moving construction equipment, ship building, electrical equipment, etc.

Look at this key excerpt: "DMTG, China's largest producer of machine tools, exports products to more than 100 countries." How is India going to get its foot in the door? China already has a commanding presence in more than 100 countries.

I have no idea how India can realistically solve this problem. When you are this far behind the market leader, you're doomed. India cannot grow prosperous through manufacturing. China already occupies the top rung in manufacturing and it will not move an inch. I am sorry, but 2012 India is not 1992 China.

----------

Chinese dominance continues in machine tools

China is both the world's largest machine tool manufacturer and consumer. "By value, four out of every ten machine tools produced anywhere in the world last year went into a Chinese factory."

World ranks of machine tool manufacturers:

1. China -- "30% of total world production"
2. Japan
3. Germany
4. Italy
5. South Korea
6. Taiwan
7. Switzerland
8. United States

----------

2011 World Machine Tool Output & Consumption Survey

THE WORLD SURVEY AT A GLANCE​

Machine-tool builders around the world generally started emerging from the recession, as 2010 total output by the 28 principal producing countries grows to $66.3-billion. That represents a 21% gain from 2009’s $54.7-billion, which had been a drop of one-third from 2008.

Chinese dominance continues. China for years has been the largest consumer of machine tools, and in 2009 it became number-one producer, as well. For 2010 that leadership continues as the country makes substantial gains in shipments and increases its share to 30% of total world production. With a huge internal appetite, however, China keeps much of its output at home, and its machines are seen little in Western markets.

Japan’s machine-tool-producing industry bounces back smartly after suffering a crippling 2009 decline of 59% (measured in yen). It regains number-two spot among producing countries. The German sector, which had not been hit as hard the previous year, shows a continuing drop of 5% and comes in third. The U.S. also suffers an ongoing slump and slips to eighth place, after Italy, South Korea, Taiwan and Switzerland.

On the consumption side of the equation, China is estimated to have made further gains, via boosts in both imports and domestic production, and thus is far and away the world’s largest consumer of machine tools, installing $27.3-billion. By value, four out of every ten machine tools produced anywhere in the world last year went into a Chinese factory. Germany is next with $5-billion; the U.S. buys $2.7-billion.

----------

China and Taiwan have caught up with U.S. advanced five-axis machine tools

Advanced high-precision five-axis machine tool fabricating an engine block

"Foreign companies in China and Taiwan have caught up with U.S. technical capabilities, rendering stringent U.S. export controls moot." (see first paragraph in news article)

Let's do the math. From the seventh paragraph, 45 foreign companies produce advanced five-axis machine tools in the BRIC+Taiwan countries. "China has 20 indigenous five-axis machine tool companies; Taiwan has 22." 45 - 20 (in China) - 22 (in Taiwan) = 3 left in Brazil, Russia, and India combined.

For comparison, "there are six American companies dedicated to producing five-axis machine tools." (see fourth paragraph in news article)

U.S. Precision Machine Tool Industry Is No Longer A Global Competetitive Force

"U.S. Precision Machine Tool Industry Is No Longer A Global Competitive Force

March 5, 2010 Volume 17, No. 4
By Richard A. McCormack
richard@manufacturingnews.com

U.S. producers of some of the most technologically advanced machine tools are in trouble, according to an assessment by the Department of Commerce. Sales of high-precision five-axis machine tools are declining. U.S. share of global exports is in a free fall. Foreign companies in China and Taiwan have caught up with U.S. technical capabilities, rendering stringent U.S. export controls moot. U.S. companies are being purchased by foreign rivals. A lack of training programs has created a shortage of skilled workers able to use the complex machinery. Commercial and U.S. government customers prefer foreign machine tools. Export controls are hampering foreign sales. The entire U.S. machine tool industry spends only $1 million a year on research on five-axis machine tools.

These are some of the findings from a "Critical Technology Assessment" conducted by the Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry and Security.

U.S. producers of five-axis machine tools had sales of $253 million in 2008, down 11 percent from 2005 sales of $284 million. That was before the U.S. machine tool industry suffered a meltdown in 2009, when domestic consumption tumbled by 60.4 percent, according to the Association of Manufacturing Technology.

Sales of five-axis machines to domestic customers from U.S. producers declined by 19 percent from 2005 to 2008, from $242 million in 2005 to only $195 million in 2008. There are six American companies dedicated to producing five-axis machine tools, and at least 20 in China. Five-axis tools are used for the production of precision components in the aerospace industry, in making gas and diesel engines, automobile parts, and throughout the medical, textile, oil, glass, heavy industrial equipment and tool industries. "Many other industries are discovering the advantages of these machines," says the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS).

Yet "only a handful of U.S. producers actually manufacture five-axis machine tools in high volume and most generate less than 10 percent of their annual net finished machine tools sales from five-axis machine tool business lines," according to the market and technology research report from BIS.

U.S. producers of five-axis machine tools exported only $58 million worth of equipment in 2008. In a tally of global exports of all machine tools, the United States -- with exports of $740 million -- accounted for only 4.3 percent of global exports in 2007.
...
BIS also assessed foreign producers of five-axis machines. It found that not one of the 45 companies that are indigenous to Brazil, China, India, Russia and Taiwan use U.S. technology, parts, components or materials. China has 20 indigenous five-axis machine tool companies; Taiwan has 22. None of these companies have to deal with the types of export restrictions facing American firms. As a result, these companies are able to produce all the machine tools that are in demand in China and Taiwan, plus they are "able to produce in sufficient quantity to export to other LRCs," says BIS.

One of China's five-axis machine tool makers has 24 distinct models. China now has 28 companies capable of building more than 1,000 CNC machine tools. There are 130 Chinese companies with annual capacity of more than 100 machine tools. The country is now supplying most all of its own demand, with only 10 percent of the market being supplied through imports. "In 2005, approximately 59,600 units of CNC machine tools were produced in China," according to the BIS report. In 2007, the combined amount of CNC metal-cutting and forming tools produced in China was 126,268, more than double the amount produced in 2005. China is now supplying its own demand for five-axis machine tools used throughout its military.

The BIS quotes the Export Compliance Working Group of the American Chamber of Commerce in the People's Republic of China as saying: "Given the existing domestic and joint venture development and the foreign availability of high-level machine tools, U.S. companies could not make a material contribution to China's military development. China's military demands are already satisfied by domestic and foreign supply."

The United States exported 515 five-axis machine tools between 2005-2007, and only 12 of these went to China. DMTG, China's largest producer of machine tools, exports products to more than 100 countries.
...
The report is located at U. S. Bureau of Industry and Security defenseindustrialbaseprograms/osies/defmarket researchrpts/final_machine_ tool_report.pdf."

----------

Taiwan remains world's biggest in LED-industry scale

Taiwan Boasts World's Largest LED Capacity in 2011; 27 New LED Fabs Going Up In Asia This Year | SEMI.ORG

2011 LED Capacity by Region (Source: SEMI Opto/LED Fab Forecast May 2011)

"Taiwan Boasts World's Largest LED Capacity in 2011; 27 New LED Fabs Going Up In Asia This Year
June 8, 2011

Demand for Equipment Rising: Heavyweights Converge on LED Manufacturing Section at SEMICON Taiwan

LED application products -- tablet computers, LED TVs and smartphones -- are all the rage, fueling the rapid rise and proliferation of Taiwan-based LED businesses. Corporations such as AU Optronics (AUO), TSMC and CHIMEI have all crossed over into the LED industry, forging yet another trillion-[New Taiwan] dollar industry in Taiwan. SEMI Opto/LED Fab Forecast has projected 27 new LED fabs starting operation in the Asia region (excluding Japan) this year. Of these, 17 will be built in China and 7 in Taiwan."

Taiwan remains world's biggest in LED industry scale - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

"Taiwan remains world's biggest in LED-industry scale
by Jeffrey Wu
2011/12/25 14:21:41

Taipei, Dec. 25 (CNA) The output value of Taiwan's LED industry remained the world's biggest in 2011, despite lower-than-expected market growth, according to a local industry association.

As the eurozone's debt problems dragged down demand, the output value of the global LED market grew by only 2.6 percent to US$16.6 billion (NT$502.48 billion) this year from US$16.1 billion in 2010, the Photonics Industry and Technology Development Association (PIDA) said in a recent report.

The PIDA is an organization jointly set up by the government and Taiwan's business and academic circles with the aim of promoting the local photonics industry.

In terms of regional performance, Taiwan still topped the market with a total output value of US$4.54 billion in 2011 -- including those of the upstream epitaxial wafers -- although the figure declined 0.4 percent from last year's US$4.56 billion, the PIDA said.

South Korea, which has run its LED sector aggressively in the past few years, ranked third behind Taiwan and Japan with output values of US$3.35 billion this year, representing an increase of nearly 5 percent from last year, the association said.

Some South Korean companies have launched low-priced products to tap into the lighting market but they still need to purchase LED components from Taiwan to save costs because of their limited scale of production, the PIDA said.

The association added that LED output value in Europe plunged 7.3 percent from US$1.74 billion in 2010 to US$1.61 in 2011 due to the impact of the European debt crisis and fierce competition.

On the contrary to Europe's decline, China's LED output value surged 26 percent year-on-year from 2010 thanks to local government support, the highest growth among all regions, the PIDA said."

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The most important reason that India cannot rise in manufacturing is the existence of China. For example, there can only be one Wall Street, Hollywood, etc.

China has already sucked out all of the oxygen in the room by being the world's largest manufacturer and exporter. It is impossible to displace China. China ascended and became a superpowerful industrial economic power, because the American government foolishly placed military considerations above economics.

Take machine tools for example. The United States restricted the exports of machine tools to everyone in the non-Western world. The United States did not want non-Western countries to industrialize. This left the machine-tool market wide open for China to fill the space. Hence, China has become the world's largest machine-tool manufacturer and a growing exporter.

Another example is the LED market. China has the financial resources to build billion-dollar plants and the customers to justify it.

Unfortunately for India, it is stuck in a perennial chicken-and-egg problem. India lacks the money to build billion-dollar semiconductor or LED plants, because it lacks customers. Also, since India has no customers for LEDs or semiconductors, India does not have the scientific and engineering expertise to build LED and semiconductor plants.

Finally, India can never compete on price (and quality) against the scale of entrenched Chinese manufacturers in LEDs, semiconductors, electronics, machine tools, large earth-moving construction equipment, ship building, electrical equipment, etc.

Look at this key excerpt: "DMTG, China's largest producer of machine tools, exports products to more than 100 countries." How is India going to get its foot in the door? China already has a commanding presence in more than 100 countries.

I have no idea how India can realistically solve this problem. When you are this far behind the market leader, you're doomed. I am sorry, but 2012 India is not 1992 China.

----------

Chinese dominance continues in machine tools

China is both the world's largest machine tool manufacturer and consumer. "By value, four out of every ten machine tools produced anywhere in the world last year went into a Chinese factory."

World ranks of machine tool manufacturers:

1. China -- "30% of total world production"
2. Japan
3. Germany
4. Italy
5. South Korea
6. Taiwan
7. Switzerland
8. United States

----------

2011 World Machine Tool Output & Consumption Survey

THE WORLD SURVEY AT A GLANCE​

Machine-tool builders around the world generally started emerging from the recession, as 2010 total output by the 28 principal producing countries grows to $66.3-billion. That represents a 21% gain from 2009’s $54.7-billion, which had been a drop of one-third from 2008.

Chinese dominance continues. China for years has been the largest consumer of machine tools, and in 2009 it became number-one producer, as well. For 2010 that leadership continues as the country makes substantial gains in shipments and increases its share to 30% of total world production. With a huge internal appetite, however, China keeps much of its output at home, and its machines are seen little in Western markets.

Japan’s machine-tool-producing industry bounces back smartly after suffering a crippling 2009 decline of 59% (measured in yen). It regains number-two spot among producing countries. The German sector, which had not been hit as hard the previous year, shows a continuing drop of 5% and comes in third. The U.S. also suffers an ongoing slump and slips to eighth place, after Italy, South Korea, Taiwan and Switzerland.

On the consumption side of the equation, China is estimated to have made further gains, via boosts in both imports and domestic production, and thus is far and away the world’s largest consumer of machine tools, installing $27.3-billion. By value, four out of every ten machine tools produced anywhere in the world last year went into a Chinese factory. Germany is next with $5-billion; the U.S. buys $2.7-billion.

----------

China and Taiwan have caught up with U.S. advanced five-axis machine tools

Advanced high-precision five-axis machine tool fabricating an engine block

"Foreign companies in China and Taiwan have caught up with U.S. technical capabilities, rendering stringent U.S. export controls moot." (see first paragraph in news article)

Let's do the math. From the seventh paragraph, 45 foreign companies produce advanced five-axis machine tools in the BRIC+Taiwan countries. "China has 20 indigenous five-axis machine tool companies; Taiwan has 22." 45 - 20 (in China) - 22 (in Taiwan) = 3 left in Brazil, Russia, and India combined.

For comparison, "there are six American companies dedicated to producing five-axis machine tools." (see fourth paragraph in news article)

U.S. Precision Machine Tool Industry Is No Longer A Global Competetitive Force

"U.S. Precision Machine Tool Industry Is No Longer A Global Competitive Force

March 5, 2010 Volume 17, No. 4
By Richard A. McCormack
richard@manufacturingnews.com

U.S. producers of some of the most technologically advanced machine tools are in trouble, according to an assessment by the Department of Commerce. Sales of high-precision five-axis machine tools are declining. U.S. share of global exports is in a free fall. Foreign companies in China and Taiwan have caught up with U.S. technical capabilities, rendering stringent U.S. export controls moot. U.S. companies are being purchased by foreign rivals. A lack of training programs has created a shortage of skilled workers able to use the complex machinery. Commercial and U.S. government customers prefer foreign machine tools. Export controls are hampering foreign sales. The entire U.S. machine tool industry spends only $1 million a year on research on five-axis machine tools.

These are some of the findings from a "Critical Technology Assessment" conducted by the Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry and Security.

U.S. producers of five-axis machine tools had sales of $253 million in 2008, down 11 percent from 2005 sales of $284 million. That was before the U.S. machine tool industry suffered a meltdown in 2009, when domestic consumption tumbled by 60.4 percent, according to the Association of Manufacturing Technology.

Sales of five-axis machines to domestic customers from U.S. producers declined by 19 percent from 2005 to 2008, from $242 million in 2005 to only $195 million in 2008. There are six American companies dedicated to producing five-axis machine tools, and at least 20 in China. Five-axis tools are used for the production of precision components in the aerospace industry, in making gas and diesel engines, automobile parts, and throughout the medical, textile, oil, glass, heavy industrial equipment and tool industries. "Many other industries are discovering the advantages of these machines," says the Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS).

Yet "only a handful of U.S. producers actually manufacture five-axis machine tools in high volume and most generate less than 10 percent of their annual net finished machine tools sales from five-axis machine tool business lines," according to the market and technology research report from BIS.

U.S. producers of five-axis machine tools exported only $58 million worth of equipment in 2008. In a tally of global exports of all machine tools, the United States -- with exports of $740 million -- accounted for only 4.3 percent of global exports in 2007.
...
BIS also assessed foreign producers of five-axis machines. It found that not one of the 45 companies that are indigenous to Brazil, China, India, Russia and Taiwan use U.S. technology, parts, components or materials. China has 20 indigenous five-axis machine tool companies; Taiwan has 22. None of these companies have to deal with the types of export restrictions facing American firms. As a result, these companies are able to produce all the machine tools that are in demand in China and Taiwan, plus they are "able to produce in sufficient quantity to export to other LRCs," says BIS.

One of China's five-axis machine tool makers has 24 distinct models. China now has 28 companies capable of building more than 1,000 CNC machine tools. There are 130 Chinese companies with annual capacity of more than 100 machine tools. The country is now supplying most all of its own demand, with only 10 percent of the market being supplied through imports. "In 2005, approximately 59,600 units of CNC machine tools were produced in China," according to the BIS report. In 2007, the combined amount of CNC metal-cutting and forming tools produced in China was 126,268, more than double the amount produced in 2005. China is now supplying its own demand for five-axis machine tools used throughout its military.

The BIS quotes the Export Compliance Working Group of the American Chamber of Commerce in the People's Republic of China as saying: "Given the existing domestic and joint venture development and the foreign availability of high-level machine tools, U.S. companies could not make a material contribution to China's military development. China's military demands are already satisfied by domestic and foreign supply."

The United States exported 515 five-axis machine tools between 2005-2007, and only 12 of these went to China. DMTG, China's largest producer of machine tools, exports products to more than 100 countries.
...
The report is located at U. S. Bureau of Industry and Security defenseindustrialbaseprograms/osies/defmarket researchrpts/final_machine_ tool_report.pdf."

----------

Taiwan remains world's biggest in LED-industry scale

Taiwan Boasts World's Largest LED Capacity in 2011; 27 New LED Fabs Going Up In Asia This Year | SEMI.ORG

2011 LED Capacity by Region (Source: SEMI Opto/LED Fab Forecast May 2011)

"Taiwan Boasts World's Largest LED Capacity in 2011; 27 New LED Fabs Going Up In Asia This Year
June 8, 2011

Demand for Equipment Rising: Heavyweights Converge on LED Manufacturing Section at SEMICON Taiwan

LED application products -- tablet computers, LED TVs and smartphones -- are all the rage, fueling the rapid rise and proliferation of Taiwan-based LED businesses. Corporations such as AU Optronics (AUO), TSMC and CHIMEI have all crossed over into the LED industry, forging yet another trillion-[New Taiwan] dollar industry in Taiwan. SEMI Opto/LED Fab Forecast has projected 27 new LED fabs starting operation in the Asia region (excluding Japan) this year. Of these, 17 will be built in China and 7 in Taiwan."

Taiwan remains world's biggest in LED industry scale - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

"Taiwan remains world's biggest in LED-industry scale
by Jeffrey Wu
2011/12/25 14:21:41

Taipei, Dec. 25 (CNA) The output value of Taiwan's LED industry remained the world's biggest in 2011, despite lower-than-expected market growth, according to a local industry association.

As the eurozone's debt problems dragged down demand, the output value of the global LED market grew by only 2.6 percent to US$16.6 billion (NT$502.48 billion) this year from US$16.1 billion in 2010, the Photonics Industry and Technology Development Association (PIDA) said in a recent report.

The PIDA is an organization jointly set up by the government and Taiwan's business and academic circles with the aim of promoting the local photonics industry.

In terms of regional performance, Taiwan still topped the market with a total output value of US$4.54 billion in 2011 -- including those of the upstream epitaxial wafers -- although the figure declined 0.4 percent from last year's US$4.56 billion, the PIDA said.

South Korea, which has run its LED sector aggressively in the past few years, ranked third behind Taiwan and Japan with output values of US$3.35 billion this year, representing an increase of nearly 5 percent from last year, the association said.

Some South Korean companies have launched low-priced products to tap into the lighting market but they still need to purchase LED components from Taiwan to save costs because of their limited scale of production, the PIDA said.

The association added that LED output value in Europe plunged 7.3 percent from US$1.74 billion in 2010 to US$1.61 in 2011 due to the impact of the European debt crisis and fierce competition.

On the contrary to Europe's decline, China's LED output value surged 26 percent year-on-year from 2010 thanks to local government support, the highest growth among all regions, the PIDA said."

Well, this is a harsh reality for India, but even India can't match China's grandeur in the future, it doesn't mean they are doomed.

India can rise and become a regional power, but not superpower, that's it.

 

[below_freezing]

I also want to point out that citation rates are different for every field.

The highest citation rates are in clinical medicine, biochemistry and theoretical astrophysics.

Materials science, computer science and mathematics have very low citation rates.

 

[buddyboyyash]

LOL, you are not behind anyone in terms of your space program?

China sent a human being into space in 2003.

India will only begin to start the selection of astronauts for their space program in 2020, and even that is optimistic, considering the poor organizational skills of India (Commonwealth Games). And that is just for "selection", it will likely take several more years for them to actually get into space.

As for innovation, please refer to both of the Global Innovation Indexes.

Global Innovation Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the record, both these indexes place China at a significantly higher level than India, and we are moving upwards too. While India is in fact falling downwards in the ranks.

just for the space program stuff...it was INDIA's first and the CHEAPEST of all moon missions which discovered (confirmed) water on moon...

when was the last time china sent more than 4 satellites in one launch...not sure if it ever did

ISRO functions in a budget thats 3% of NASA's budget...within that budget, coming so far is a big achievement.....when u compare...compare everything...have a good life

 

[t_for_talli]

Maybe the "superpower Indians" lol can reply to this post?

Its simple you introduced reforms in 1970s and we did it in 90s so the growth phase which you got into in 90s we achieeved the same in 2000s. So in the long run if we are able to maintain current rate then its not a problem

1990 Netherlands GDP : India GDP 1:1
2010 Netherlands GDP : India GDP 1:2

You seem to be proud of the fact the your country sustained a double digit growth rate but on the cost of what ??
Here are some examples
Avg salary of Indian teacher 700$ in China its between 400-600$
Similarly and avg Indian engineer is paid twice the amount as compared to a Chinese one

So as far as my views are concerned a country's assets are its people and they should be catered well rather than dictating them to work harder and harder for penny so as to generate 'NUMBERS/growth figures' for nation.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Its simple you introduced reforms in 1970s and we did it in 90s so the growth phase which you got into in 90s we achieeved the same in 2000s. So in the long run if we are able to maintain current rate then its not a problem

That myth has already been debunked.

China had no real headstart, our earlier reforms were only limited to small regions and were mostly about reversing earlier policies. The reform process only really kicked off nation-wide in the 1990's.

And as you can see, China and India had the same GDP in 1990. The reason China is miles ahead today, is due to growth rates. That is, China was able to sustain double-digit growth rates for over thirty years, while India has not managed to sustain double-digit growth rates at all.

You can check the numbers for yourself.

 

[Roybot]

I also want to point out that citation rates are different for every field.

The highest citation rates are in clinical medicine, biochemistry and theoretical astrophysics.

Materials science, computer science and mathematics have very low citation rates.

Funny you say that cause India has either better or similar citiation rate than China in all those fields

 

[Martian2]

just for the space program stuff...it was INDIA's first and the CHEAPEST of all moon missions which discovered (confirmed) water on moon...

when was the last time china sent more than 4 satellites in one launch...not sure if it ever did

ISRO functions in a budget thats 3% of NASA's budget...within that budget, coming so far is a big achievement.....when u compare...compare everything...have a good life

You do not understand satellite technology. During a launch, there should only be one or two satellites on board. Modern satellites weigh 5,000kg or 10,000 pounds and operate for 15 years. Launching four satellites or more during a single launch means that Indian satellite technology is far below the world standard.

I will illustrate my point by contrasting a Chinese launch with a modern satellite and the launch of inferior multiple Indian satellites.

China launches 5,000kg modern DFH-4 satellites.

India launches high-school projects with 83kg to 630kg satellites (see third citation below). All ten Indian satellites combined weighed a mere 824kg. This is a far cry from a modern 5,000kg Chinese satellite.

----------

China's DFH-4 matches Western standards for modern communication satellites

The characteristics of a modern communications satellite are:

1. It is the size of a city bus and weighs about 10,000 pounds.

2. It lasts for 15 years.

3. It has approximately 32 transponders.

China's DFH-4 satellite bus (or platform) designed and built by CGWIC (i.e. China Great Wall Industrial Corporation)

DFH-4 satellite technical specifications

"A typical satellite has 32 transponders. Transponders each work on a specific radio frequency wavelength, or “band.” Satellite communications work on three primary bands: C, Ku and Ka. C was the first band used and, as a longer wavelength, requires a larger antenna. Ku is the band used by most current VSAT systems. Ka is a new band allocation that isn’t yet in wide use. Of the three, it has the smallest wavelength and can use the smallest antenna." (Source: Beyond line of sight communications)

Western satellite specifications look identical to China's DFH-4 satellite. (Source: User:Bhamer/sandbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


China's DFH-4 is comparable to Western satellites. Its 30 transponders (or perhaps the Pakistanis weren't willing to buy more than 30 transponders) are very close to the average of 32 transponders on a modern satellite. At 5,200 kg or 11,440 pounds, it is approximately the same weight as Western satellites in the 10,000-pound class. The DFH-4 uses the "three primary bands: C, Ku, Ka," and L bands. Its solar panels generate the standard 8 kW of power.

----------

http://www.spacenews.com/archive/archive06...nadfh_1016.html

"China Looks To Boost Satellite Manufacturing With DFH-4 Line
By PETER B. de SELDING
Space News Staff Writer
posted: 18 October 2006
03:30 pm ET
...
PARIS -- The first of a new line of high-power telecommunications satellites produced in China and already sold to two export customers is scheduled for launch in late October for China's Sinosat direct-broadcast television provider, Chinese space officials said.

The Sinosat-2 satellite, the first of the DFH-4 spacecraft built by the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST), has faced several delays but is now expected to be launched in the coming weeks by a Chinese Long March 3B rocket from China's Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwest China's Sichuan Province.

If it functions as planned, the DFH-4 satellite design will bring China's domestic satellite manufacturing industry closer to the level of its U.S., European and Japanese counterparts.

DFH-4 is the third generation of China-built telecommunications spacecraft and carries some 800 kilograms of payload -- four times the capacity of the previous Chinese product, the DFH-3. Weighing up to 5,300 kilograms at launch, the DFH-4 platform is built to operate for 15 years -- double the DFH-3's life expectancy -- and provide up to 10 kilowatts of power at the end of its service life.
...
Wang said CAST has tested the DFH-4 design to a maximum capacity of 54 transponders, 38 in Ku-band and 16 in C-band. The satellite's upper limit would be around 5,600 kilograms, he said in the presentation. (article continues)"

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http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...8_1_cartosat-2a-pslv-c9-sun-synchronous-orbit

"India sets world record, launches 10 satellites at one go
PTI Apr 28, 2008, 11.04am IST

PSLV-C9 blasts off from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota (AP Photo)SRIHARIKOTA: Setting a world record, India's Polar rocket on Monday successfully placed ten satellites, including the country's remote sensing satellite, into orbit in a single mission. ( Watch )

The ten pack launch of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) saw the 230-tonne Polar Satellite launch Vehicle (PSLV-C9) carry the heaviest luggage--824 kgs--and put into orbit an Indian Mini Satellite and eight foreign nano satellites besides the Cartosat-2A remote sensing satellite.

At the end of the 52-hour countdown, the PSLV-C9, with a lift-off mass of 230 tonne, blasted off from the launch pad at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre and soared into the clear sky in a textbook launch. (Watch)

Fourteen minutes after lift off, the fourth stage of the ISRO's workhorse launch vehicle, in its 13th flight, injected the ten satellites, into the 635 km polar Sun Synchronous Orbit (SSO).

This is for the first time that ISRO has put ten satellites in orbit in a single launch. This is also PSLV's twelfth successful flight.

It is for the first time in the world that ten satellites were launched in a single mission. Russia had earlier launched eight satellites together.

Besides the 690 kg Indian remote sensing satellite CARTOSAT-2A and the 83 kg Indian Mini Satellite (IMS-1), the rest eight Nano Satellites were from abroad.

This is the third time, the PSLV has been launched in the core alone version, without the six solid propellant first stage strap-on motors.

Terming the launch "satisfactory", ISRO Chairman G Madhavan Nair said "all parameters worked wonderfully well."

Congratulate ISRO for successfully placing ten satellites into orbit in a single mission."

 

[jbond197]

hahahaha.. Abay kitna likhta hai yeh.. Padne ka time kiske paas hai koyi isko bolo..

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

Best examples of chinese innovation are included in this thread.....

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/155899-bad-rip-offs-well-known-brands-28.html

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------

hahahaha.. Abay kitna likhta hai yeh.. Padne time kiske paas hai koyi isko bolo..

woh likta nahi hain, woh bus copy paste karta hai, thats a type of innovation