Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

[Bratva]

And for the holy love of God, please dont quote the motto on this, because the laughs that we already have had on this, had this motto been such a force, everybody in this country would be a moochless, beardo with unchi shalwars and kurtas wielding an AK and green turban because the 'motto' is embded with the name of this country read Islamic Republic, everyday every school of this country begins its proceeding with Ayats from Quran, almost every sarkari building of this country has verses from the Holy Book, every book of ours begins with a Bismillah and every TV program here opens with Aslam o Alikum! And oh yes, before i miss, every Pakistani shouts Ya Ali or Ya Madad when he faces challanges and every public transport bus have that glowing light with Ya Allah khair printed on it which glows everytime the drive hits the brake paddel!!

How would he know all this since he is living in england for too long and his only sources are his relatives, westernized newspapers who like to paint a rosy picture every now and then and of course TV channels, which are busy in talk shows now a days

 

[Xeric]

Indeed some in the army should feel much pride in the promotion of their ideology and people have bought into the whole world being against them mentality.

It is interesting that from one angle the Pakistan armed forces seek particularly American military equipment and especially dollars and from another angle promote the idea that the Americans and everybody else are the enemies of Pakistan - when the dollars stop the propaganda against the world seems to ratchet up a notion or two.

WTF?
i amnarrating you an instance of degradation of our society and instead of expressing of views you are telling me that how the army on one side purchase american equipment and on the other tell this mullah to teach others to hate amreeka? Musey, when did your brain cells suffer retardation lately?

By this definition you on one side propgate the gora school of thought and on the other feel concerned and want to serve care for a scoeity full of fundamentalists? Hypocrisy?

See, anybody can samrtazz by mincing the words. If you anything to prove, say it or else quit acting like a phapay kutni...

 

[VCheng]

There are a multitude of existing threads for discussing something 'substantive' ....

This thread was started with a particular purpose, and whatever your view of that purpose, leave it to its original purpose given the existence of other avenues to engage in discourse.

Yessir!

 

[Xeric]

And nobody is pretending to be a mullah Mr. Muse. The slogans is to calm a man and get his phobia of death out of himself, so that the soldier does his duties of protecting the state effectively. He should not fear death, and that is accomplished here by teachings of Islam, that are that a shaheed is granted jannah.

And Xeric, i know what you are saying, there is a mosque right next to my house in Islamabad and that guy said after the friday prayers that these people who pretend to be the protectors of pakistan are taking orders from yahudis and Americans and are killing muslims in the FATA region. He said, kill of one muslim is kkilling of whole mankind. Did he prefer that those terrorists should rather come and blow his arse to kingdom come??. He also prayed after eid namaz, my father was still in the army then, and he said that may Allah damn these infidels of the army. Now, who is propogatnig hatred through Islam Mr. Muse, and who is using Islam for proving his point?

Your clear phobia against Islamic thought is coming out again and again. Read about the definition of "Jihad" from an arbi dictionary or are you only referring to armed struggle.

These guys are in the habit of cherry picking things to their benefits. See how easily they choose army's moto and skip everything in between, they see a soldier praying which is his obligation as prevelance of estrimism but they skip those who are calling for death of marvi after her duel with hamid khan saab.

Surprisingly they are somehow obsessed with the jihad, the armed struggle one, espacially the FAKE jihad that has no place in Islam which these terrorist use as a tool to kill others. Even more surprisingly, people like Muse who i think is sane and educated enough differentiate between the two, also (deliberately) confuse these two opposing phenomenons of the word Jihad.

They probably know that if someone didnt masturbate today, infact had done a jihad against his nafas (i,ll leave my personal t

 

[Xeric]

Ok guys, i think my finger tips are done with this mobile keypad, enough of being a lazy bum, back to my babay Dell stay tuned for more fireworks

 

[Jango]

Well Xeric, some people just eat what the media feeds to them, and not think that whether the fodder for them is holding any weight or not. and Mr. muse, you did not answer my questions i asked.

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Ok guys, i think my finger tips are done with this mobile keypad, enough of being a lazy bum, back to my babay Dell stay tuned for more fireworks

yah, mobile net can be a pain on the fingertips!!!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

ya especially pdf on mobile...my fingers are too wide for my crackberry

im unsure how a topic on the Army Chief turned into one in which we discuss mottos and jihad and all these other things. As for the Army, i'll state the obvious again. It's a product, it is comprised of the people who make up the country from all and every end of the country. People seem to have this habit of either viewing them with such awe --as if they could make miracles happen overnight; and on the other hand people seem to think that having cooperation with Americans and NATOs then suddenly makes it an infidel institution doing the devil's bidding.

so on one hand, you have the mullah brigades and their terrorist-apologetic nature. How many times have they condemned 15 year old brainwashed f*ck-tards blowing up Mosques, tribal elders, public places causing loss of life and damaging public and private property and belongings (forget targetting the military, since that is at least more fair than soft targets ---though these terrorist only know how to fight dirty using hit & run away tactic)

on the other hand you have the ''liberal'' media, the ''enlightened'' lot and their sympathisers at New York Slimes and Daily Telegraph --but even closer to home, like Kamran Shafi, A. Siddiqui and people like that who are more than happy to create some artificial connection between the khakis and the 'jihadi' types.....as if to attribute every social or other ill in Pakistan to the army.


as for american dollars --- well we've discussed it many times. It's surprising that people have short memory spans; wasn't it just 2 months back that COAS re-ROUTED military-designated funds for civilian purposes? And that, despite the fact that we are pocketing a lot of costs to provide support and re-equipping our troops in the insurgency-hit areas in the north (proof in itself that this is indeed OUR war)


and the next time ''maulvi sahib'' in Islamabad or anywhere else claims that fauj is taking orders from yahudi/americans -- well, i would agree with one notion.....this war was enthrusted upon us, the conditions for this war were created by our short-sightedness but has been made more severe due to NATOs own mistakes (from a position of strength to a position of total weakness due to errors made post 2004-05)

we can talk about who is responsible for what; but most important ---the mullah brigades and their apologists should look into the eye of the mother who lost her child when suicide bomber attacked Islamic University some years back; or the 5 fatherless children who lost their father who happened to be blown up because he was at a jirga; or the 2 sisters who were thrashed and humiliated and threatened because they wanted to go to school. As long as these apologists are around, the fight will continue to be tricky and they will continue to try to poison people with their lies and hypocrisy.

no soldier in uniform will ever be at peace with him/herself if they were to kill their own countrymen.......but when fired upon by the same terrorists who will happily kill and threaten civilians and the same ones who attack fellow comrades --then it's the right thing to do. Those that can be rehabilitated and would drop their weapons for a greater cause, they would be embraced. Those who live by the gun will likely die by the gun too.

when you believe you are doing the right thing and your moral cause is right, you are less likely to abandon a frame of thought......these paid thugs --quite frankly, its very hard to see how they think they are doing the right thing. They are just confused, brain-washed, illiterate minority of people. It's a dangerous minority which government needs to do more to address. Them and their backers/supporters/providers. Now please don't tell me that the Army supports or feels any sympathy for these people, because that is disgusting and its a myth that needs to be squashed. The latter arent fighting jihad, they are just murderers. Simple as that. We will deal with them, regardless of the propaganda or beyond-blind criticism for an Army that is doing much more to solve the problem than the criminally incompetent, inefficient, undisciplined local or federal governments



time to time i feel compelled to state the obvious.......

 

[Xeric]

Just saw that my post # 1444 was incompletely written. Some portion was 'cut' while copied it through my cell in a bid to save the post if connection is lost. So here's the full reply:

And nobody is pretending to be a mullah Mr. Muse. The slogans is to calm a man and get his phobia of death out of himself, so that the soldier does his duties of protecting the state effectively. He should not fear death, and that is accomplished here by teachings of Islam, that are that a shaheed is granted jannah.And Xeric, i know what you are saying, there is a mosque right next to my house in Islamabad and that guy said after the friday prayers that these people who pretend to be the protectors of pakistan are taking orders from yahudis and Americans and are killing muslims in the FATA region. He said, kill of one muslim is kkilling of whole mankind. Did he prefer that those terrorists should rather come and blow his arse to kingdom come??. He also prayed after eid namaz, my father was still in the army then, and he said that may Allah damn these infidels of the army. Now, who is propogatnig hatred through Islam Mr. Muse, and who is using Islam for proving his point?

Your clear phobia against Islamic thought is coming out again and again. Read about the definition of "Jihad" from an arbi dictionary or are you only referring to armed struggle.

These guys are in the habit of cherry picking things to their benefits. See how easily they choose army's moto and skip everything in between, they see a soldier praying which is his obligation as prevelance of estrimism but they skip those who are calling for death of marvi after her duel with hamid khan saab.

Surprisingly they are somehow obsessed with the jihad, the armed struggle one, espacially the FAKE jihad that has no place in Islam and which these terrorist use as a tool to kill others. Even more surprisingly, people like Muse who i think is sane and educated enough to differentiate between the two, also (deliberately) confuse these two opposing phenomenons of the word Jihad.

They probably know that if someone didnt masturbate today, infact had done a jihad against his nafas (i,ll leave my personal thoughts about masturbation for later), but then they still want to smell the same azzhole as i have already pointed out and still beleive what is fed to them.

As for the army 'glorifying' jihad, well these non resident so called Pakistanis are mistaken. The army glorify war no more than any other what other militaries dose. Once someone during this class about attack operations said; 'yaar, ismay tu getting the enemy into pre designated killing zones, attriting the enemy fromm the very start, enegaging the enemy defences with heavy weapons k baray mai aisy likha hoa hai jaisay mazak hai. - he was worried about the gory details regarding the military tactics entailing destroying an enemy during Attack. But to his surprise, a gora classmate of ours replied; 'dude, if the military will not to learn how to fight, kill or defend, the Pope is not going to do it for us.' In our case, WAPDA is not going to do this for us. So yes, the army glorifies for what it is trained for; war, sacrfice and victory and preaches what it should; pain blood and sweat!!

You guys got problem with that? Feel free to shyt blood cells, who cares.

 

[Jango]

Did i tell you guys that the TT Chairman has powers to ban people? Banday bun jao hun.

And Abu, i totally agree with your niswar vs cig thingy.

Should have done that earlier, i thought only the mods have that privilege. Sorry Sir Fatman. Lets hope he is in a good mood.

BTW, does the COAS have enough power constitutionally to intervene in political scenario if asked by the SC to bring things in order?

If so, will he?

 

[VCheng]

Should have done that earlier, i thought only the mods have that privilege. Sorry Sir Fatman. Lets hope he is in a good mood.

BTW, does the COAS have enough power constitutionally to intervene in political scenario if asked by the SC to bring things in order?

If so, will he?

As if constitutionality of any COAS action ever stopped anybody previously!

Constitutionally, the answer is NO, but practically, given the history, it is another matter entirely.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

BTW, does the COAS have enough power constitutionally to intervene in political scenario if asked by the SC to bring things in order?

If so, will he?

its a very valid and good question......i think that any intervention would be the least desired option. The one where you have to punch thick glass and cut your hands in order to activate the final ''manual-over-ride switch'''

i really hope that the betterment of the country doesnt lie always in the Army being forced to go in and clean up the place and do the dirty civilian duties........people should value the power of their vote, and VOTE for the candidate whom they see as most fit.

of course at the same time, if situation domestically continues to deteriorate the way it has, if the Army is ordered to go in and assume power then they will take the order that is given to them.

Army would only have the heart for this job if the ''conditions'' call for it.....institutions being played around, molested and f*cked around with and systematically destroyed; economy in a state of collapse due to total corruption and mismanagement …self-serving policies by self-serving politicians rocking the foundations of the Federation of Pakistan. Total breakdown of law & order even in main cities etc.

to an extent, every one of these problems has taken place or is ongoing......so it's a big question mark.


I doubt the CJ will order such a move unless things get worse than what they already are (we can only hope that doesnt happen!)

 

[Jango]

As if constitutionality of any COAS action ever stopped anybody previously!

Constitutionally, the answer is NO, but practically, given the history, it is another matter entirely.

There was a TV show somedays back that the CJ can call in the army if things go pear shaped, and the orders of the supreme court are not complied to. But the Advocate, Athar Minallah denied it. So, could it be done, a emergency under the cover of SC?

 

[Jango]

its a very valid and good question......i think that any intervention would be the least desired option. The one where you have to punch thick glass and cut your hands in order to activate the final ''manual-over-ride switch'''

i really hope that the betterment of the country doesnt lie always in the Army being forced to go in and clean up the place and do the dirty civilian duties........people should value the power of their vote, and VOTE for the candidate whom they see as most fit.

of course at the same time, if situation domestically continues to deteriorate the way it has, if the Army is ordered to go in and assume power then they will take the order that is given to them.

Army would only have the heart for this job if the ''conditions'' call for it.....institutions being played around, molested and f*cked around with and systematically destroyed; economy in a state of collapse due to total corruption and mismanagement …self-serving policies by self-serving politicians rocking the foundations of the Federation of Pakistan. Total breakdown of law & order even in main cities etc.

to an extent, every one of these problems has taken place or is ongoing......so it's a big question mark.


I doubt the CJ will order such a move unless things get worse than what they already are (we can only hope that doesnt happen!)

Not saying that there should be martial law like before, but the role of the army should be to just ensure that the SC orders are being complied with, and currently it is not the case, although Gilani blabbers everyday that hum judiciary ka ehteram kartay hain.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not saying that there should be martial law like before, but the role of the army should be to just ensure that the SC orders are being complied with, and currently it is not the case, although Gilani blabbers everyday that hum judiciary ka ehteram kartay hain.

yaar.....we've screwed with our Constitution so many times; where does the line get drawn? Which constitution does CJ aim to enforce anyways.

Gilani can blabber whatever he wants. Our courts are fairly free, like our media. A bit too free at times (personaly opinion)

 

[Jango]

yup, the courts bauhaut zyada hi chaur ho gaye hain. But their orders are not being enforced. What needs to be done to ensure that?, and does kayani have any role in doing that?