Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

[muse]

a few days back i happened to be in a major city, during traweh i was out to get something from the market when i heard the local molvi praying after traweeh, hey Allah, save us from the consirpisies of goras, hamain yahodion k shar say bacha and that Pakistanis should stand up against these yankees and go out for jihad with everything that they have. And i was like, acha he howa i didnt go for traweeh here. So, muse sire, what do you have to say about this?

Indeed some in the army should feel much pride in the promotion of their ideology and people have bought into the whole world being against them mentality.

It is interesting that from one angle the Pakistan armed forces seek particularly American military equipment and especially dollars and from another angle promote the idea that the Americans and everybody else are the enemies of Pakistan - when the dollars stop the propaganda against the world seems to ratchet up a notion or two.

 

[Rafi]

I refer you to the Motto of the Pakistan army and the glorification of Jihad as an obligation - and of course your own post is most telling - religious slogans to "sooth nerves" and of course the propagation of the cult of death, that death need not be feared.

Armies train recruits to make fear an ally, Jihadi armies train death as a consequence of service and of course for the fearless but with bad nerves, even more religious soothing.

Nuclear, Armed forces job is to protect the citizen and their property and to protect the state - their job is not to become Mullahs

Your clear phobia against Islamic thought is coming out again and again. Read about the definition of "Jihad" from an arbi dictionary or are you only referring to armed struggle.

 

[Jango]

I refer you to the Motto of the Pakistan army and the glorification of Jihad as an obligation - and of course your own post is most telling - religious slogans to "sooth nerves" and of course the propagation of the cult of death, that death need not be feared.

Armies train recruits to make fear an ally, Jihadi armies train death as a consequence of service and of course for the fearless but with bad nerves, even more religious soothing.

Nuclear, Armed forces job is to protect the citizen and their property and to protect the state - their job is not to become Mullahs

And nobody is pretending to be a mullah Mr. Muse. The slogans is to calm a man and get his phobia of death out of himself, so that the soldier does his duties of protecting the state effectively. He should not fear death, and that is accomplished here by teachings of Islam, that are that a shaheed is granted jannah.

And Xeric, i know what you are saying, there is a mosque right next to my house in Islamabad and that guy said after the friday prayers that these people who pretend to be the protectors of pakistan are taking orders from yahudis and Americans and are killing muslims in the FATA region. He said, kill of one muslim is kkilling of whole mankind. Did he prefer that those terrorists should rather come and blow his arse to kingdom come??. He also prayed after eid namaz, my father was still in the army then, and he said that may Allah damn these infidels of the army. Now, who is propogatnig hatred through Islam Mr. Muse, and who is using Islam for proving his point?

 

[Rafi]

The change has already taken place, only that the your likes dont want to know of it. Most importantly, there's no need of us to make your kind aware of such changes primarily because it wont change anything in you as you have gone so deep inside this hole that you cant find the end with light, even though some of you want to come out of this abyss.

Despite everything, this Nation today still looks towards the military with high hopes, because they know that with all its shortcomings and bugs, the military still is better then the political class, civil society and non resident Pakistanis who either flee the country, are in the process of fleeing or know nothing of the ground realities other than what their universities and bosses at work feed them.

Also, i get paid for my services which i had rendered, continue to render and would do so in future by serving at Siachen, FATA, Balochistan and Kashmir. i dont get paid for posting at PDF to the accusitiin of those who get paid to write here behind the confines of their keyboards.

BTW, a few days back i happened to be in a major city, during traweh i was out to get something from the market when i heard the local molvi praying after traweeh, hey Allah, save us from the consirpisies of goras, hamain yahodion k shar say bacha and that Pakistanis should stand up against these yankees and go out for jihad with everything that they have. And i was like, acha he howa i didnt go for traweeh here. So, muse sire, what do you have to say about this?

What do you have to say about my question on another thread what if these talibans were non Muslims, would the military have supported them as they did because according to you they have the 'common' Islam with them, but the supporting non Muslim talibans would have been in Pakistan's interest as they woyld fight the expantionist communism?

And what do you say about the firm that forces its employees to say Namaz in Karachi? Even the DIRECTOR of that company is helpless infront of that peon because he can report him and make h

X bro - he can't be reasoned with, he is convinced of his "Messiah" status.

---------- Post added at 02:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 AM ----------

LOL! First, deny that there is any change needed. When cornered, claim the change that was needed has already happened!

Still following the company recipe book, eh?

Worry about your "real" country. I heard their is a hurricane coming.

 

[muse]

Now, who is propogatnig hatred through Islam Mr. Muse, and who is using Islam for proving his point?

Nuclear, the pakistani army's islamization has caught up with it -- the army especially is reaping what it has sowed for so many years - So long as "jihad" was focused on the Indian and the Afghan, you were all for it, heck I was all for it - but now that we see, and I hope you can see, that this jihadist ethic is burning Pakistan itself, then perhaps it's time for a rethink

 

[Rafi]

Nuclear, the pakistani army's islamization has caught up with it -- the army especially is reaping what it has sowed for so many years - So long as "jihad" was focused on the Indian and the Afghan, you were all for it, heck I was all for it - but now that we see, and I hope you can see, that this jihadist ethic is burning Pakistan itself, then perhaps it's time for a rethink

The Armed Forces are on the right path - that is why a recent poll - has given them an approval rating of over 80%

 

[Xeric]

Come on Musey, let's get this straight, though you are poor and weak at answering quries, but for the sake of our affilition here on PDF, tell me this,

Enumerate the points, actions, steps ect the military takes to indoctrinate its men?

Let's see how many tableegi jammats this military is running which we know not of. Please tell us about the sylabus this military teaches its officer and men that they turn out to be fundamentlists by the end of the day.

And for the holy love of God, please dont quote the motto on this, because the laughs that we already have had on this, had this motto been such a force, everybody in this country would be a moochless, beardo with unchi shalwars and kurtas wielding an AK and green turban because the 'motto' is embded with the name of this country read Islamic Republic, everyday every school of this country begins its proceeding with Ayats from Quran, almost every sarkari building of this country has verses from the Holy Book, every book of ours begins with a Bismillah and every TV program here opens with Aslam o Alikum! And oh yes, before i miss, every Pakistani shouts Ya Ali or Ya Madad when he faces challanges and every public transport bus have that glowing light with Ya Allah khair printed on it which glows everytime the drive hits the brake paddel!!

 

[Rafi]

Come on Musey, let's get this straight, though you are poor and weak at answering quries, but for the sake of our affilition here on PDF, tell me this,

Enumerate the points, actions, steps ect the military takes to indoctrinate its men?

Let's see how many tableegi jammats this military is running which we know not of. Please tell us about the sylabus this military teaches its officer and men that they turn out to be fundamentlists by the end of the day.

And for the holy love of God, please dont quote the motto on this, because the laughs that we already have had on this, had this motto been such a force, everybody in this country would be a moochless, beardo with unchi shalwars and kurtas wielding an AK and green turban because the 'motto' is embded with the name of this country read Islamic Republic, everyday every school of this country begins its proceeding with Ayats from Quran, almost every sarkari building of this country has verses from the Holy Book, every book of ours begins with a Bismillah and every TV program here opens with Aslam o Alikum! And oh yes, before i miss, every Pakistani shouts Ya Ali or Ya Madad when he faces challanges and every public transport bus have that glowing light with Ya Allah khair printed on it which glows everytime the drive hits the brake paddel!!

I think he want's a totally atheistic nation, then I am afraid he is going to be disappointed, even Turkey is returning to it's Islamic roots - we should all be pulling for a pluralistic nation - where all people of whatever religion have full equal legal and civil right's.That is achievable, and the Armed Forces is leading the way, which other institution has Muslims of all sect's, Christians, Hindu's and Sikh's all serving together for the defense of the realm.

 

[Xeric]

Sir Fat is going get angry, very angry, for ruining this thread!

 

[Rafi]

Sir Fat is going get angry, very angry, for ruining this thread!

I think we all can say "not me Guv" and point at musey.

 

[Jango]

Nuclear, the pakistani army's islamization has caught up with it -- the army especially is reaping what it has sowed for so many years - So long as "jihad" was focused on the Indian and the Afghan, you were all for it, heck I was all for it - but now that we see, and I hope you can see, that this jihadist ethic is burning Pakistan itself, then perhaps it's time for a rethink

But how is the Jihadist ethic of specifically the army is burning Pakistan? If it is indeed burning through Pakistan , it is somethig that needs to be worried about? If it needs to be worried about, does it do more damage than the politicians, civil society and the other components of the state?.

P.S: give your own views on the questions put forward, and not of any author or of some journalist.

 

[Jango]

Come on Musey, let's get this straight, though you are poor and weak at answering quries, but for the sake of our affilition here on PDF, tell me this,

Enumerate the points, actions, steps ect the military takes to indoctrinate its men?

Let's see how many tableegi jammats this military is running which we know not of. Please tell us about the sylabus this military teaches its officer and men that they turn out to be fundamentlists by the end of the day.

And for the holy love of God, please dont quote the motto on this, because the laughs that we already have had on this, had this motto been such a force, everybody in this country would be a moochless, beardo with unchi shalwars and kurtas wielding an AK and green turban because the 'motto' is embded with the name of this country read Islamic Republic, everyday every school of this country begins its proceeding with Ayats from Quran, almost every sarkari building of this country has verses from the Holy Book, every book of ours begins with a Bismillah and every TV program here opens with Aslam o Alikum! And oh yes, before i miss, every Pakistani shouts Ya Ali or Ya Madad when he faces challanges and every public transport bus have that glowing light with Ya Allah khair printed on it which glows everytime the drive hits the brake paddel!!

Add to that everybody says Allah o Akbar when sitting or standing or when facing tough times. Even my relatives say that, but they are no mullahs or extreme islamists. They are plastic surgeons!!!, in a reputed lahore hospital. The point is muse, that the motto is not a need for worry. A soldier hardly ever thinks of it when he is in an exercise in the field. Islam is embedded all over our country, from the north to the south. It is displayed everywhere, from vans and busses, to schools and newspapers, to government building and maybe your very own drawing room. But are you a islamist? But is the governemtn islamist? but is the bus driver or van driver islamist?

 

[Xeric]

I think he want's a totally atheistic nation, then I am afraid he is going to be disappointed, even Turkey is returning to it's Islamic roots - we should all be pulling for a pluralistic nation - where all people of whatever religion have full equal legal and civil right's.That is achievable, and the Armed Forces is leading the way, which other institution has Muslims of all sect's, Christians, Hindu's and Sikh's all serving together for the defense of the realm.

This people are confused, too confused to even realise that they themselves dont know of what they want to say. On one hand they dont support the mullah baradari because doing so might get them kicked out their land of abode and they dont even dare propose a fully secular system because they fear some qadri guy might get 'em. There condition is like that dhobhi ka kutt@@, please take it as it is, jo na ghar ka ha na ghaat ka. They are way behind the likes of us who want a thriving Islamic State that embracess the modern changes enforced upon this religion by time, where non Muslims are considered equal in every aspect, where marriages and votes are not given on bradari and caste system, where Islamism and Islamicians, as Musye puts it, are ruthlessly countered and anyone redefining this religion of peace is taken to task on merit, where religion and state are on a parrallel track and where mottos and salogans dont matter as the common lot is educated enough to find out themselves what is best for them! Unfortunately this confused lot is also unable to come at terms with this arrangment!

 

[VCheng]

.................
Worry about your "real" country. I heard their is a hurricane coming.

It came, it went, life goes on. What's your point?

Sir Fat is going get angry, very angry, for ruining this thread!

Oh sure, rather than discussing anything substantive, let's hear about about yet another canned speech at a pre-arranged dog-and-pony show-and-tell, plus a photo-op or two!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh sure, rather than discussing anything substantive, let's hear about about yet another canned speech at a pre-arranged dog-and-pony show-and-tell, plus a photo-op or two!

There are a multitude of existing threads for discussing something 'substantive' ....

This thread was started with a particular purpose, and whatever your view of that purpose, leave it to its original purpose given the existence of other avenues to engage in discourse.