Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

[SQ8]

Islamist ethic..
Throw religion onto the back seat...
its everywhere..
Islam .. Islam.. must remove all signs of it..

 

[muse]

Xeric, You really need to learn consistency in your position - first you argue that articles by Brigadiers of the Pakistan army, seeking an end to Jihadist radicalization in the armed forces are not representative of the opinion in the army, and having failed to present any kind of work by serving or former officers arguing for an even more radical Jihadist indoctrination in the armed forces, you now resort to suggesting that the military is composed of what you call "doucebags".

Xeric, Jihadist ideas and slogans, such as the motto of the Pakistan army, imposed by the Arabized Jamaati, Zia, can have no place in the armed forces. I hope you will take this to heart and if you cannot support the armed forces, even though they pay you to do it, you should at least have the decency to disassociate yourself from the armed forces.

Change is coming, Xeric, you must not stand in it's way, it will sweep you away, even if you hide, it will sweep you away.

 

[VCheng]

Islamist ethic..
Throw religion onto the back seat...
its everywhere..
Islam .. Islam.. must remove all signs of it..

No, that would be wrong, not to mention unachievable.

Islam, like all religions, has a greatly important role to play in the lives of untold millions. However, its use to manipulate a whole society and thereby perpetuating the hold on power of a select few has been a problem throughout history, and present times are no different.

It just so happens that at the present crossroads of history, Pakistan faces an existential threat if this state and military infatuation with religiosity is not stopped.

That is all, no more, and no less.

 

[muse]

Islamist ethic..
Throw religion onto the back seat...
its everywhere..
Islam .. Islam.. must remove all signs of it..

You confuse Islamist with Islam - again, that's your privilege - reality is that Pakistan are consumed by Islam-ism - Those who are faithful, do not need to wear their religion on their sleeves, they do not need to indoctrinate recruits in Jihad as a military ideology.

Before Zia, we were Muslims, now we must have Islamist ideology forced upon us, we must agree to surrender our conscience to the state, and the State is the arbiter of the content of that conscience and what is religiosity - if you murder for your convictions you are a real Muslim and if you are a soldier, it is not patriotism, but Jihad as a pillar of a new and improved Islam in which there not just more than 5 pillars, but any number the state decides - this is a desecration of the faith, it must end, and the first place it must end is the first place in which it started, the armed forces.

 

[Rafi]

^^^^^
Musey allusions of grandeur - What is it with you??? Arab's - the military - go out have a cup of coffee, and chill out.

 

[Jango]

What is wrong with the motto?, the state of pakistan was made on demands for a MUSLIM state no?

 

[muse]

What is wrong with the motto?, the state of pakistan was made on demands for a MUSLIM state no?

A muslim state yes, an islamist Jihadist state, no,

Pakistan is a multi-religious multiethnic polity - the armed forces have a professional responsibility and a patriotic responsibility, not a religious responsibility. No one is arguing that a Muslim need not practice their faith, but the armed forces with the promotion of a jihadist ethic create not only needless division in society, but put at risk the professionalism of the armed forces.

 

[Rafi]

A muslim state yes, an islamist Jihadist state, no,

Pakistan is a multi-religious multiethnic polity - the armed forces have a professional responsibility and a patriotic responsibility, not a religious responsibility. No one is arguing that a Muslim need not practice their faith, but the armed forces with the promotion of a jihadist ethic create not only needless division in society, but put at risk the professionalism of the armed forces.

Why don't you move back home, and make a change rather than rant and rave on a website.

 

[muse]

Why don't you move back home, and make a change rather than rant and rave on a website.

Worry about what you can do - if you can't be supportive of either reform nor of the status quo - try keeping quiet and learn

 

[VCheng]

Why don't you move back home, and make a change rather than rant and rave on a website.

... so that a "true" muslim can go all "Salman Taseer" on Muse?

No thanks!

 

[Jango]

A muslim state yes, an islamist Jihadist state, no,

Pakistan is a multi-religious multiethnic polity - the armed forces have a professional responsibility and a patriotic responsibility, not a religious responsibility. No one is arguing that a Muslim need not practice their faith, but the armed forces with the promotion of a jihadist ethic create not only needless division in society, but put at risk the professionalism of the armed forces.

True, there does not need to be a Jihadist army or a Jihadist state mentality. But who is propogating the jihadist mentality, the army, no?. The officers, most of them, are anything but Jihadi islamists. The slogan of Allah o Akbar and the Allah Hu of the SSG on the parade is for the soothing and calming of the nerves , to get a kind of assurance that through Islam, death needs not be feared.

Jihadi elements may exist, they do exist rather, but in a army with manpower of 700,000, you can afford to have 50 people like that.

 

[Xeric]

The change has already taken place, only that the your likes dont want to know of it. Most importantly, there's no need of us to make your kind aware of such changes primarily because it wont change anything in you as you have gone so deep inside this hole that you cant find the end with light, even though some of you want to come out of this abyss.

Despite everything, this Nation today still looks towards the military with high hopes, because they know that with all its shortcomings and bugs, the military still is better then the political class, civil society and non resident Pakistanis who either flee the country, are in the process of fleeing or know nothing of the ground realities other than what their universities and bosses at work feed them.

Also, i get paid for my services which i had rendered, continue to render and would do so in future by serving at Siachen, FATA, Balochistan and Kashmir. i dont get paid for posting at PDF to the accusitiin of those who get paid to write here behind the confines of their keyboards.

BTW, a few days back i happened to be in a major city, during traweh i was out to get something from the market when i heard the local molvi praying after traweeh, hey Allah, save us from the consirpisies of goras, hamain yahodion k shar say bacha and that Pakistanis should stand up against these yankees and go out for jihad with everything that they have. And i was like, acha he howa i didnt go for traweeh here. So, muse sire, what do you have to say about this?

What do you have to say about my question on another thread what if these talibans were non Muslims, would the military have supported them as they did because according to you they have the 'common' Islam with them, but the supporting non Muslim talibans would have been in Pakistan's interest as they woyld fight the expantionist communism?

And what do you say about the firm that forces its employees to say Namaz in Karachi? Even the DIRECTOR of that company is helpless infront of that peon because he can report him and make h

 

[muse]

who is propogating the jihadist mentality, the army, no?. The officers, most of them, are anything but Jihadi islamists. The slogan of Allah o Akbar and the Allah Hu of the SSG on the parade is for the soothing and calming of the nerves , to get a kind of assurance that through Islam, death needs not be feared.

Jihadi elements may exist, they do exist rather, but in a army with manpower of 700,000, you can afford to have 50 people like that.

I refer you to the Motto of the Pakistan army and the glorification of Jihad as an obligation - and of course your own post is most telling - religious slogans to "sooth nerves" and of course the propagation of the cult of death, that death need not be feared.

Armies train recruits to make fear an ally, Jihadi armies train death as a consequence of service and of course for the fearless but with bad nerves, even more religious soothing.

Nuclear, Armed forces job is to protect the citizen and their property and to protect the state - their job is not to become Mullahs

 

[VCheng]

The change has already taken place......................

LOL! First, deny that there is any change needed. When cornered, claim the change that was needed has already happened!

Still following the company recipe book, eh?

 

[Rafi]

... so that a "true" muslim can go all "Salman Taseer" on Muse?

No thanks!

Eureka!!! so if you are not willing to put, all your chips on the line, and are happy living in a foreign country - then you do not have much moral authority to rant about Pakistan do you.

---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------

Worry about what you can do - if you can't be supportive of either reform nor of the status quo - try keeping quiet and learn

Why don't you take that advice for yourself, you lost heavily in the other thread, on your "arbi" phobia.