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Chief of Army Staff | General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

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We all knew "what" Zardari was from Day 1. But I certainly expected better from Kayani. I'm extremely disappointed by his behavior. While I still don't doubt his patriotism (the same can't be said of Zardari of course) I thought he held a lot of sway over Americans. But apparently, he doesn't. He's like a scared child in front of him. I think the Americans thought Pakistan were stalling the North Waziristan operation, & just completely lost their patience. However, for someone who so thoroughly think about their military strategies, don't realize that these drone attacks will destabilize Afghanistan & Pakistan even further, & that is a very risky proposition for both the US & Pakistan. You can't expect to kill everyone, it's not possible to do that. The US & Pakistan are about to face very dire consequences for these drone attacks, & it would be wise for Pakistan to order the US to stop the attacks (which they haven't done of course), instead of 'demanding apologies & condemning' the attacks.

Americans keep forgetting... what goes around comes around... It has been going around by the Americans for a long long time now... Its about time that it comes around for them also...

and the one who is on the side of the helpless and the poor is God Almighty Himself... If a man does not come to the aid of the poor and the mazloom on earth, then Allah swt Himself implements Justice for the mazloom... Americans keep forgetting what happened to the powers before them...
 
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Noone is blaming army. We know their services to our nation. People are angry about the mismanagement. Mismanagement of every institution, not just army.

Everyone is blaming the Army sister Mehru... Please Khuda kay liyay open your eyes and face reality... By God I fear the day when the common man in Pakistan decides to grab guns and attack cantonment areas across Pakistan... You are dragging Pakistan into a full blown civil war... For God sake people of Pakistan Army wake up from this nightmare...
 
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Please Khuda kay liyay open your eyes and face reality... By God I fear the day when the common man in Pakistan decides to grab guns and attack cantonment areas across Pakistan... You are dragging Pakistan into a full blown civil war... For God sake people of Pakistan Army wake up from this nightmare.
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The time for being reasonable is over
 
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Everyone is blaming the Army sister Mehru... Please Khuda kay liyay open your eyes and face reality... By God I fear the day when the common man in Pakistan decides to grab guns and attack cantonment areas across Pakistan... You are dragging Pakistan into a full blown civil war... For God sake people of Pakistan Army wake up from this nightmare...

what army is doing its bring civil war sooner or latter. tell me today who is thing abut our nukes?hamy nhi chayee nukes hamary kis kam ke hai? mery liye sary amreeca le jay jesy RD ko le gya.army ne apni izaat ka janaza khud nikala hai.
 
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these ventures are tax-paying organisations and they pay for building schools, hospitals and welfare of the retired and their kin. whats wrong with that?

Firstly, welfare is the duty of the government, not the military.

Secondly, large portions of these commercial ventures are tax exempt, or their finances are not open to public audits.

Thirdly, this creates a conflict of interest as the military is directly competing with civil ventures, and with unfair advantages.

Fourthly, it exposes serving personnel to undue influences not only in their inevitable dealings with the public sector, but also within the armed forces as political jockeying for "lucrative" positions.
 
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Firstly, welfare is the duty of the government, not the military.

which govt? - this or all the ones in the past? - since when they have been interested in the welfare of anyone? except themselves!

its good to make 'text-book' arguments but the reality is way different!
 
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Firstly, welfare is the duty of the government, not the military.

which govt? - this or all the ones in the past? - since when they have been interested in the welfare of anyone? except themselves!

its good to make 'text-book' arguments but the reality is way different!

I mean no disrespect, but is that all you have for a counter-argument?
 
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Sorry to burst your little bubble, but..
Firstly, welfare is the duty of the government, not the military.
It becomes the military's duty when the govt fails to do it. It also becomes military's duty when people like you expect the Army to be compatible with the contemporary armies and also be as professional as those armies whose budget for uniform allowance alone is 10 times our entire defence budget, BUT at the same time your likes, yikes on paying for the defence expenditures!! If we had been just managing our affairs through what you pay us through your TAXES we would have been screwed since long now. How? i can list down atleast 5-10 combat items which are not provided by the mighty GoP for the troops fighting in FATA since the past 3 years, instead these items were made guud through either the pockets/pays of Officers and Men or through the the funds generated by the same projects you feel so bad about.

Secondly, large portions of these commercial ventures are tax exempt, or their finances are not open to public audits.
No they are not.

The commercial ventures of the army are simply treated as any other commercial projects in this country. By this definition it would mean something like that if the army is running a gas station, it's getting the fuel from contractors at lower rates, or the land procured for the constructing of Askari Bank was subsidized etc, but guess what, it didnt! Moreover, a huge amount of revenue is generated for the govt through these projects in the garb of the taxes these projects deposit. So yes, all of these projects are taxed in the normal manner:
Same 'ol tale of myths - some more insight:

Armed Forces contribute nothing towards National economy.


Armed Forces contribute an average 60-70% of the allocated budget annually, towards National economy by way of taxes and foreign remittances. Army contributed Rs 146.8 Bn against budget allocation of Rs 146 Bn for year 2009/10.



Army is involved in commercial/ business activities.

All commercial/ business activities undertaken by Armed Forces are approved by the Government, essentially aimed at welfare of serving/ retired personnel of the Armed Forces. These projects hardly compensate for allocated deficiency and furthermore, substantially contribute towards National exchequer in shape of taxes. (AWT alone pays billions of Rs in taxes each years).
As for the 'public audit', well FYKI, all these projects are audited in the similar manner as any other (govt) institution (like the Army or the civilian bureaucracy/DMGs/District govts) or the business corporations are audited. If you still doubt it, may be you can visit your nearest Askari Bank branch.



Thirdly, this creates a conflict of interest as the military is directly competing with civil ventures, and with unfair advantages.
Isnt it always guud to have competitions and resist monopolies? Hadnt it been for DHA, Bahria would have been a lame consortium for you people to enjoy. Oh BTW, if you didnt know, DHA and Bahria are already undertaking a joint venture ;)

Also how would you define 'conflict of interest'?
BTW, when i was selected for a foreign course, i was categorically ORDERED that i should get my tickets through Askari Travels who in turn would ensure that i fly PIA. And the reason was that the sarkari paisa should go back to the sarkar - by flying the national airliner. Had this not been told to me, i was already saved money to fly Emirates.

And what's with the 'unfair advantages' thingy? Do you know how difficult it was for the DHA to procure land for Askari 11 or whatever dont remember now (the one that's plus of the new Lahore airport towards the indian border)? The locals resisted, as usual, the land prices increased manifold when it was known that DHA would be venturing here, a few people even went to the court and the DHA guys had to wait and pay whatever the land owners demanded. i didnt see any 'unfair disadvantage' in this, did you? Yeah..., now i know where the problem lies....

Fourthly, it exposes serving personnel to undue influences not only in their inevitable dealings with the public sector, but also within the armed forces as political jockeying for "lucrative" positions.

That's lame! Seriously, it seems as if in an attempt to add just one more point to your list you simply lost it and came up with this babble.

Anywaz, every commercial projects is run either by CIVILIANS or RETIRED MEN! This in turn ensure post retirement utilization of militarymen (this includes the tri services retirees) and increased employment rates for the civilians. BTW, how many times did you see a uniformed guy sitting as the branch manager in Askari Bank? Or a serving fauji running some outlet of Askari Travels? Except NLC (which the COAS has already shunted: Kayani tells NLC to stop posing as defence agency | Latest-News | DAWN.COM) and the FWO (which indeed is primarily for fulfilling the military's requirement of road/route construction), you wont see a serving fauji managing the commercial ventures. The number of serving guys involved in all this can be counted on your finger tips, and if that bothers you, may you continue being bother in future also. Only the AG's branch at GHQ make sure that the civilian running the projects behave as the army wants them too.
 
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I stand by my post and its contents as it is not my problem frankly.

However "justified" the commercial ventures of the armed forces may be to some rushing to defend them, the bottom line remains that the armed forces usurp more than their fair share of the resources that Pakistan can provide, and the harmful results are before all the world to see.

Having said that, if the nation is okay with living in the servant's quarters while the chowkidar lives in the main house, I have no problem with it personally. :D
 
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And my beef is not thatthey usurp, because Xeric does have a point, my beef is that they are so incompetent at the stuff they take on -- the world has moved on and does buiness in trillions, these people you can buy for a 20
 
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I stand by my post and its contents as it is not my problem frankly.

However "justified" the commercial ventures of the armed forces may be to some rushing to defend them, the bottom line remains that the armed forces usurp more than their fair share of the resources that Pakistan can provide, and the harmful results are before all the world to see.

Having said that, if the nation is okay with living in the servant's quarters while the chowkidar lives in the main house, I have no problem with it personally. :D
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I mean no disrespect, but is that all you have for a counter-argument?

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What happens in Pakistan over the next few years will be more than enough counter-arguments I will need, SADLY, with the results for all the world to see. Recent events are just a prelude I am afraid.
 
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What happens in Pakistan over the next few years will be more than enough counter-arguments I will need, SADLY, with the results for all the world to see. Recent events are just a prelude I am afraid.

It totally confuses me why this is such a challenge to some - now when we have a chance to set things right, we have people upset and unsure as why we would even think we can set things right - really, friend or foe, it really is not just the US who can't tell friend from foe. Kistarah Majal kuhi...
 
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It totally confuses me why this is such a challenge to some - now when we have a chance to set things right, we have people upset and unsure as why we would even think we can set things right - really, friend or foe, it really is not just the US who can't tell friend from foe. Kistarah Majal kuhi...

Muse: I agree with you that Pakistan has a golden opportunity to set things right, and hoping against evidence, I pray that the nation succeeds. I REALLY DO!

However, the long history of missed opportunities is what scares me, that is all.
 
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That man ( COAS ) has not just Broken my trust But entire nation's. We always thought he could be the savior but he did the opposite ..........

Agreed Brother,
broken my heart too.
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