Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[That Guy]

what is you talking about? their country, their languages, they have better sources than@Deino, and Even @Deino can't read, speak and understand simple Chinese and you called it Chinese Militarty Expert, what a double standard you have

When did I say that anyone here is a military expert? Do you seriously not read anything that others say?

Your reasoning is dumb! You speak urdu, do you know what secret projects that Pakistan Army are conducting? Do you have contacts within the army? No, you don't.

@Deino @Shotgunner51 I seriously recommend banning this dude, his insulting manner is disgusting.

"considering that every single member on here is basing their opinions on guess work"

Really, every one is here basing their opinions on guess work?

Is the opinion of CCTV-4, which claims "“歼20隐身战机发动机零部件的加工和最终装配都是在中国航发黎明公司工装制造厂进行的”

"The J-20 stealth fighter's engine part, tooling and final assembly were all completed in the assembly factory of AECC Shenyang Liming Group Co. Ltd."

also based on guess work, not authoritative insider knowledge?

Thanks for this spacious and vacuous claim to white wash Mr. Deino's groundless and insistent trolling that J-20 is flying with a Russian made AL-31-FN-M2 engine, not indigenous Chinese made engine.

He has offered not one thread of evidence to back up his claims other than pictures of the exhaust nozzles.

That doesn't mean you have insider knowledge, that just means you either read a fucking article, or watched news. YOU do not have insider knowledge.

Also, just because the J-20 has indigenous engines being developed, it does not mean that the J-20 is currently using indigenous engines.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Way to jump the shark.

Becos we speak Chinese, all important documentary interview with chief designer, vice or president of AVIC, give interview in Chinese. If you want the best source of Chinese military news. These documentary, report and interview are the best source to know the latest upcoming of Chinese development. Far more better than and English military expert who know nothing about Chinese. You don't know Chinese, you don't know what PLA try to disclose to the world. That is Chinese way and no other way unless you change CPC. Don't tell me those chief designer and engineer know nothing, only western one is authentic. I am sick of this kind of stereotypes BS.

Do not use western method to gauge China. If so, it will be same like saying western democracy government system is equal to communist socialist system of China. You method of looking at China military using western view will never work.

Bear in mind, many of those Chinese chief designer in fact are very humble. They will not claim their product is world class or leading without substantial proof. They will not make tall claim which can never materialize. Because they need to be answerable to their superior if tall claim
Is not achievable. Unlike many fabricated are lies by the western media about Chinese making unsubstantial claim.

While I appreciate your detailed reply, I would ask that you not assume things about my views.

Anyway, in the end, my comments stand.

We do not know how accurate the information we get is, because so much info is classified, and numbers given tend to never be truly accurate (this is true for every military in the world, including China). It is NOT because the Chinese engineers and designers are lying, but rather requirements change and issue crop up that end up changing the initial plan.

Until the fighter is fully operational and deployed, and not still in development, take everything with a grain of salt.

As for @Deino my issue isn't if he's right or wrong, but rather my message to @pakistanipower was not to simply insult him, just because he happened to disagree.

Just like you and @Asok are sick and tired of foreigners dismissing China's achievements, I'm sick of some Chinese and Pakistani members dismissing foreign opinions because they're "western" or "bias".

 

[Asoka]

When did I say that anyone here is a military expert? Do you seriously not read anything that others say?

Your reasoning is dumb! You speak urdu, do you know what secret projects that Pakistan Army are conducting? Do you have contacts within the army? No, you don't.

@Deino @Shotgunner51 I seriously recommend banning this dude, his insulting manner is disgusting.


That doesn't mean you have insider knowledge, that just means you either read a fucking article, or watched news. YOU do not have insider knowledge.

Also, just because the J-20 has indigenous engines being developed, it does not mean that the J-20 is currently using indigenous engines.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Way to jump the shark.



While I appreciate your detailed reply, I would ask that you not assume things about my views.

Anyway, in the end, my comments stand.

We do not know how accurate the information we get is, because so much info is classified, and numbers given tend to never be truly accurate (this is true for every military in the world, including China). It is NOT because the Chinese engineers and designers are lying, but rather requirements change and issue crop up that end up changing the initial plan.

Until the fighter is fully operational and deployed, and not still in development, take everything with a grain of salt.

As for @Deino my issue isn't if he's right or wrong, but rather my message to @pakistanipower was not to simply insult him, just because he happened to disagree.

Just like you and @Asok are sick and tired of foreigners dismissing China's achievements, I'm sick of some Chinese and Pakistani members dismissing foreign opinions because they're "western" or "bias".

Since You cannot stick to a moderator's friendly call (@Shotgunner51), since You cannot keep calm even after two warnings and keep continuing insulting other members I give You a two-week "time-out" in this topic. Either calm down and tame Your tone or go to the next level.

Arguments are allowed, but no longer any personnel insults.

Deino

 

[grey boy 2]

@Deino, see, you've shown everyone right as you've started to oppress those who doesn't agreed with your "my way or highway" acts, nothing surprising but as predicted what a narrow minded person you actually are
People are not blind here to witness how you've been pin pointed 1st target @Beast and now 2nd @Asok that has refused to give up their believe and despised you for denying your lost with the bet regarding the engine argument, you're a man with no honor with your promise
The worst of all is that you're using @Shotgunner51 as excuses to taking your revenge with those that has been embarrassing you for eating your own promise after losing your "bet"
You may win with your revenge by abusing your moderation power however you've lost all your respect from most of the Chinese members here
Now please negative rating and ban me for calling you out, thankyou

 

[UKBengali]

I agree that the current J-20 engine is TOTALLY Chinese.

This theory of a Chinese-built AL-31FN is simply ridiculous and laughable.

 

[grey boy 2]

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I agree that the current J-20 engine is TOTALLY Chinese.

This theory of a Chinese-built AL-31FN is simply ridiculous and laughable.

The WS-10B now looks like a code name for the most primitive version of the WS-15, it is by far superior to any other WS-10 variants, although not as perfect as the definitive version of the WS-15.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Whowhazwswen did I say that anyone here is a military expert? Do you seriously not read anything that others say?

Your reasoning is dumb! You speak urdu, do you know what secret projects that Pakistan Army are conducting? Do you have contacts within the army? No, you don't.

@Deino @Shotgunner51 I seriously recommend banning this dude, his insulting manner is disgusting.


That doesn't mean you have insider knowledge, that just means you either read a fucking article, or watched news. YOU do not have insider knowledge.

Also, just because the J-20 has indigenous engines being developed, it does not mean that the J-20 is currently using indigenous engines.

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Way to jump the shark.



While I appreciate your detailed reply, I would ask that you not assume things about my views.

Anyway, in the end, my comments stand.

We do not know how accurate the information we get is, because so much info is classified, and numbers given tend to never be truly accurate (this is true for every military in the world, including China). It is NOT because the Chinese engineers and designers are lying, but rather requirements change and issue crop up that end up changing the initial plan.

Until the fighter is fully operational and deployed, and not still in development, take everything with a grain of salt.

As for @Deino my issue isn't if he's right or wrong, but rather my message to @pakistanipower was not to simply insult him, just because he happened to disagree.

Just like you and @Asok are sick and tired of foreigners dismissing China's achievements, I'm sick of some Chinese and Pakistani members dismissing foreign opinions because they're "western" or "bias".

If your theory applied then @Deino like peoples doesn't know inside news on chinese military except news channel and internet we are just asking that on what basis he thinks that "this indeginous engine" is based on AL--31M2 and thats all but he didn't anwer our questions and why you think that i insulted @Deino there other members in the thread behaving same manner like @Asok, @Beast , @Chinese Tiger 1986

 

[Tiqiu]

The WS-10B now looks like a code name for the most primitive version of the WS-15, it is by far superior to any other WS-10 variants, although not as perfect as the definitive version of the WS-15.

Haha, what about WS-15? It becomes the code name for Chinese 5th generation engine for spaceplane also.

A WS-15 or derivative is also going to be tested in first free jet test of the China-developed prototype combined-cycle hypersonic engine later this year. If sucessful, it will lead to the first demonstration flight of a full-scale propulsion system by 2025.

On the 21st AIAA Inaternatiohnal Spaceplane and Hypersonics Systems and Technologies Conference in Xiamen
in March this year, China, in a manner descibed as "a shot fired across the bow of the West" by the AviatonWeek, revealed for the first time on public this "the turbo-aided rocket-augmented ram/scramjet engine" (TRRE) is to be closest to becoming the first practical combined-cycle propulsion system to power horizontal-takeoff-and-landing hypersonic “near-space reconnaissance-and-strike” vehicles, two-stage-to-orbit and even the single-stage-to-orbit vehicles.

The Chinese reserchers also claimed the Chinese TRRE is one generation ahead of the current early combined-cycle concepts/models of the US, including the Trijet of SR72 proposed by Aerojet Rocketdyne in 2008.
晨枫：中美高超音速飞行器 谁离星辰大海更近
http://www.guancha.cn/ChenFeng3/2017_05_29_410651.shtml


Chinese TRRE
(Credit to Beijing Power Machinery Research Institute)

 

[Tiqiu]

Judging by its coulour, IMO the J-20 nozzle flap and seal in the picutres is made of ceranmic matrix composite materials not the metal alloy used on all known russian engines nozzles.

 

[yusheng]

If your theory applied then @Deino like peoples doesn't know inside news on chinese military except news channel and internet we are just asking that on what basis he thinks that "this indeginous engine" is based on AL--31M2 and thats all but he didn't anwer our questions and why you think that i insulted @Deino there other members in the thread behaving same manner like @Asok, @Beast , @Chinese Tiger 1986

in fact, i have never ever seen any information, that Deino offered, deeper than Chinese PDF member offered here.

 

[Han Patriot]

I get goosebumps just by looking at these pics. If these were Indian J-20s, our bharatis would have ejaculated in their pants. LOL

 

[帅的一匹]

Judging by its coulour, IMO the J-20 nozzle flap and seal in the picutres is made of ceranmic matrix composite materials not the metal alloy used on all known russian engines nozzles.

I think the nozzle is made of ceramic matrix composite material.

I get goosebumps just by looking at these pics. If these were Indian J-20s, our bharatis would have ejaculated in their pants. LOL

They ejacuate too much so that their brain got empty.

 

[That Guy]

If your theory applied then @Deino like peoples doesn't know inside news on chinese military except news channel and internet we are just asking that on what basis he thinks that "this indeginous engine" is based on AL--31M2 and thats all but he didn't anwer our questions and why you think that i insulted @Deino there other members in the thread behaving same manner like @Asok, @Beast , @Chinese Tiger 1986

Your insulting his intelligence, by saying he knows nothing, while presenting nothing yourself.

The others have been warned, and atleast @Beast has tried to explain his position in detail, even if I disagree. You've done nothing but cheer lead, and boo.

@Deino, see, you've shown everyone right as you've started to oppress those who doesn't agreed with your "my way or highway" acts, nothing surprising but as predicted what a narrow minded person you actually are
People are not blind here to witness how you've been pin pointed 1st target @Beast and now 2nd @Asok that has refused to give up their believe and despised you for denying your lost with the bet regarding the engine argument, you're a man with no honor with your promise
The worst of all is that you're using @Shotgunner51 as excuses to taking your revenge with those that has been embarrassing you for eating your own promise after losing your "bet"
You may win with your revenge by abusing your moderation power however you've lost all your respect from most of the Chinese members here
Now please negative rating and ban me for calling you out, thankyou

@Asok was rude towards me, that's why he got a time out. @Deino has surprisingly been tolerant towards people targeting him. Stop playing the victim card here.

This is an internet forum, what does honor matter in an internet argument? Stop being over dramatic.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Your insulting his intelligence, by saying he knows nothing, while presenting nothing yourself.

The others have been warned, and atleast @Beast has tried to explain his position in detail, even if I disagree. You've done nothing but cheer lead, and boo.

give me my any previous posts that i am saying that @Deino knows nothing btw he is not trying to understand others opinions insisted his opinion and not to give appropriate reasons for his opinion and i am also warned by @Deino sir

 

[samsara]

Your insulting his intelligence, by saying he knows nothing, while presenting nothing yourself.

The others have been warned, and atleast @Beast has tried to explain his position in detail, even if I disagree. You've done nothing but cheer lead, and boo.


@Asok was rude towards me, that's why he got a time out. @Deino has surprisingly been tolerant towards people targeting him. Stop playing the victim card here.

This is an internet forum, what does honor matter in an internet argument? Stop being over dramatic.

"...This is an internet forum, what does HONOR matter in an internet argument? Stop being over dramatic."

BUT IF one does seriously take your last statement (I put it in RED BOLD), this very forum, PDF, a moderated forum with some particular topic of interests, mainly military related, WON'T EVEN EXIST.... or this forum will just function like the YAHOO BOARD LOL

and you just belittle this very forum, PDF... for IF it behaves or is operated like the wild wild west forum, or acts like the fake news den such as Yahoo board, I for sure won't ever waste my time here... from the very beginning!!

Honestly, I don't find any of your contribution in this very thread about J-20, so why play so harsh with your words, and what do you think that gives you so much authority to "speak" or write so boldly here, in this very thread of J-20??? At least I still read the many lengthy, detailed, time-consuming posts to construct by the knowledgeable members like @Asok and many others, even though readers, mods, may not agree with his ideas/opinions etc, but that's just fine.

Mind you members like Asok and many others in this particular thread are NOT those one-liner, two-liner or those short, substance-empty diligent, cheerleading posters chasing the post-count contribute nothing or just a little at PDF!! A frequent member here should be able to differentiate those kinds of insignificant posters from the serious contributors!

It's weird you know, just like having some passer-by to drop by in some corner then act as if the big-guy-in-power scolding many others on how to behave themselves in that locality!


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Well, it's for all to have some self reflections and self-refrain, last things to see here, a messy state here in a MAIN THREAD about one of the most advanced jet fighter in the world, the J-20!!

I wish all to put the focuses back on things regarding the J-20 itself instead all other things, esp. the messy personal things.