Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[That Guy]

Based on knowledge for what? he has a eye catching assessment with no base, he is no technical background, the biggest reason is that all Chinese senior members telling indigenous engine is install on J-20 @Deino can't agree with other Chinese senior members and Call its a home made AL-31M2 with no Prove if China make AL-31M2 it call reverse engineered not indigenous engine thats why i can't agree with him

And you do? How do we know those Chinese senior members have a technical background?

We're all military enthusiasts, nothing more. Some of us just happen to be professionals, or more knowledgeable than others.

Disagreement is a part of discussion, and considering that every single member on here is basing their opinions on guess work, there is no reason to start insulting other people's intelligence.

 

[Asoka]

Based on knowledge for what? he has a eye catching assessment with no base, he is no technical background, the biggest reason is that all Chinese senior members telling indigenous engine is install on J-20 @Deino can't agree with other Chinese senior members and Call its a home made AL-31M2 with no Prove if China make AL-31M2 it call reverse engineered not indigenous engine thats why i can't agree with him


Based on knowledge for what? he has a eye catching assessment with no base, he is no technical background, the biggest reason is that all Chinese senior members telling indigenous engine is install on J-20 @Deino can't agree with other Chinese senior members and Call its a home made AL-31M2 with no Prove if China make AL-31M2 it call reverse engineered not indigenous engine thats why i can't agree with him

Thanks for telling the obvious truth, bro. Mr. Deino don't have the decency to admit he was wrong, and don't have the sense of honor to keep his promise and resign as Moderator.

Mr. Deino is just playing with words, right now. He got nothing else to say. He got no technical background. In fact, he is technically illiterate. He can't read or write one word of Chinese, yet acts as he is a "Chinese Combat Aircrafts" expert.

So pathetic.

 

[Tiqiu]

@wanglaokan @Asok @j20blackdragon @grey boy 2 @pakistanipower @Tiqiu @ChineseTiger1986

I have had great experience working together with fellow mod - Deino - he is a fair man, critical to details, dedicated to his work, and just as emotional as any normal man like all of us. Let us all have a friendly and peaceful coexistence aka all sides stop with their name-calling, personal attacks against nationality or profession (and these include certain smileys that's sometimes perceived as provocation, use some manner please). I suggest everyone only argue on technical matters, if anything is not confirmed it is admitted as such (until the true facts are confirmed, with data from credible sources). Personal opinions are allowed, personal analysis/investigations are encouraged (putting bits and pieces together, and reach one's own conclusion or assumption), so feel free to express, and do respect others' rights to do the same. Thanks and best regards, Shotgunner51

I pretty much said the similar words half a year ago about Deino on this very thread and wonder why i am on your tagging now? You made me feel i am part of something against Deino, which i am not to be official. Anyway it is nice to talk you again.

 

[grey boy 2]

 

[Ultima Thule]

And you do? How do we know those Chinese senior members have a technical background?

We're all military enthusiasts, nothing more. Some of us just happen to be professionals, or more knowledgeable than others.

Disagreement is a part of discussion, and considering that every single member on here is basing their opinions on guess work, there is no reason to start insulting other people's intelligence.

But is @Deino has a better sources than our Chinese friends, and I am not insulting deino but just asking him to clear his opinion

 

[That Guy]

But is @Deino has a better sources than our Chinese friends, and I am not insulting deino but just asking him to clear his opinion

How do you know those chinese members have contacts at all?

 

[Beast]

How do you know those chinese members have contacts at all?

Becos we speak Chinese, all important documentary interview with chief designer, vice or president of AVIC, give interview in Chinese. If you want the best source of Chinese military news. These documentary, report and interview are the best source to know the latest upcoming of Chinese development. Far more better than and English military expert who know nothing about Chinese. You don't know Chinese, you don't know what PLA try to disclose to the world. That is Chinese way and no other way unless you change CPC. Don't tell me those chief designer and engineer know nothing, only western one is authentic. I am sick of this kind of stereotypes BS.

Do not use western method to gauge China. If so, it will be same like saying western democracy government system is equal to communist socialist system of China. You method of looking at China military using western view will never work.

Bear in mind, many of those Chinese chief designer in fact are very humble. They will not claim their product is world class or leading without substantial proof. They will not make tall claim which can never materialize. Because they need to be answerable to their superior if tall claim
Is not achievable. Unlike many fabricated are lies by the western media about Chinese making unsubstantial claim.

 

[Asoka]

And you do? How do we know those Chinese senior members have a technical background?

We're all military enthusiasts, nothing more. Some of us just happen to be professionals, or more knowledgeable than others.

Disagreement is a part of discussion, and considering that every single member on here is basing their opinions on guess work, there is no reason to start insulting other people's intelligence.

"considering that every single member on here is basing their opinions on guess work"

Really, every one is here basing their opinions on guess work?

Is the opinion of CCTV-4, which claims "“歼20隐身战机发动机零部件的加工和最终装配都是在中国航发黎明公司工装制造厂进行的”

"The J-20 stealth fighter's engine part, tooling and final assembly were all completed in the assembly factory of AECC Shenyang Liming Group Co. Ltd."

also based on guess work, not authoritative insider knowledge?

Thanks for this spacious and vacuous claim to white wash Mr. Deino's groundless and insistent trolling that J-20 is flying with a Russian made AL-31-FN-M2 engine, not indigenous Chinese made engine.

He has offered not one thread of evidence to back up his claims other than pictures of the exhaust nozzles.

Becos we speak Chinese, all important documentary interview with chief designer, vice or president of AVIC, give interview in Chinese. If you want the best source of Chinese military news. These documentary, report and interview are the best source to know the latest upcoming of Chinese development. Far more better than and English military expert who know nothing about Chinese. You don't know Chinese, you don't know what PLA try to disclose to the world. That is Chinese way and no other way unless you change CPC. Don't tell me those chief designer and engineer know nothing, only western one is authentic. I am sick of this kind of stereotypes BS.

Do not use western method to gauge China. If so, it will be same like saying western democracy government system is equal to communist socialist system of China. You method of looking at China military using western view will never work.

Bear in mind, many of those Chinese chief designer in fact are very humble. They will not claim their product is world class or leading without substantial proof. They will not make tall claim which can never materialize. Because they need to be answerable to their superior if tall claim
Is not achievable. Unlike many fabricated are lies by the western media about Chinese making unsubstantial claim.

Bro, thanks for the writing out the simple and obvious truth. I am very tired of those western MSM B.S., myself.

 

[samsara]

Becos we speak Chinese, all important documentary interview with chief designer, vice or president of AVIC, give interview in Chinese. If you want the best source of Chinese military news. These documentary, report and interview are the best source to know the latest upcoming of Chinese development. Far more better than and English military expert who know nothing about Chinese. You don't know Chinese, you don't know what PLA try to disclose to the world. That is Chinese way and no other way unless you change CPC. Don't tell me those chief designer and engineer know nothing, only western one is authentic. I am sick of this kind of stereotypes BS.

Do not use western method to gauge China. If so, it will be same like saying western democracy government system is equal to communist socialist system of China. You method of looking at China military using western view will never work.

Bear in mind, many of those Chinese chief designer in fact are very humble. They will not claim their product is world class or leading without substantial proof. They will not make tall claim which can never materialize. Because they need to be answerable to their superior if tall claim
Is not achievable. Unlike many fabricated are lies by the western media about Chinese making unsubstantial claim.

But Prof. ANDREW, Prof. LYLE at the Naval War College do understand "what PLA try to disclose to the world" they hire a bunch of Chinese language specialists in their team to decipher the PLA development, piece by piece!!

 

[Shotgunner51]

But why deino said that China can't install WS series of engine and insisting this indeginous engine is AL-31 M2

I have no idea bro, I have little info about WS or AL-31, no comment on the subject. Just relax, debate on technical, you're a senior member let's not do name-calling.

Mr. Deino is just playing with words, right now.

No more name-calling, let's talk about the subject, not the poster.

 

[Ultima Thule]

How do you know those chinese members have contacts at all?

what is you talking about? their country, their languages, they have better sources than@Deino, and Even @Deino can't read, speak and understand simple Chinese and you called it Chinese Militarty Expert, what a double standard you have

 

[Beast]

what is you talking about? their country, their languages, they have better sources than@Deino, and Even @Deino can't read, speak and understand simple Chinese and you called it Chinese Militarty Expert, what a double standard you have

I have no doubt Deino will beat us hands down on what type of Chinese combat aircraft and estimate how many aircraft station at which Chinese airbases. Which serial number of the Chinese aircraft represent which zone regiment.

But don't be fool thinking such knowledge equal to know the future development or latest development of Chinese aviation. They are very likely unrelated.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I have no idea bro, I have little info about WS or AL-31, no comment on the subject. Just relax, debate on technical, you're a senior member let's not do name-calling.

If most of Chinese senior members on PDF saying that indigenous engine install on J-20 doesn't mean that home made AL-31M2 is called "indigenous engine" its called "reversed engineered" engine because he believe his eye cathcing assessment

 

[Asoka]

But Prof. ANDREW, Prof. LYLE at the Naval War College do understand "what PLA try to disclose to the world" they hire a bunch of Chinese language specialists in their team to decipher the PLA development, piece by piece!!

The Requirements for a good competent intelligence specialists are three fold.

1.) He must have good language skills of that target country.
2.) He must be educated in the field that he is trying to decipher.
3.) He must willing to work for the "modest" salary of being an intelligence analyst, instead of the field he was educated, which often pays a lot more than a government intelligence agency salary.

So, for US to get good intelligence on Chinese aeronautical development, those analysts must able to read and write Chinese, must have a degree or substantial background in aeronautical, and willing to get pay $60k-80k a year.

Unfortunately, the first part of hiring a Chinese speaker to work in CIA is a big problem. This candidate must pass a through security ground check. That he has no family connections in China, that he has no regular contacts with Chinese nationals, that he can not make undeclared private trips to China. . .etc.

This is practically eliminated a native Chinese speaker.

And what you got is someone who is born in the US, with no family in China and probably barely know any Chinese language.

As for a aeronautical engineer, $60-$80k per year is the starting salary for a new grad.

So who with a aeronautical degree and can speaks and write Chinese, wants to work in CIA, for $60-80k per year?

What's that mean?

It means CIA is getting B.S. from "journalists" who don't know Chinese, who don't know aeronautics as intelligences.

Those "journalists/analysts" can't read Chinese, and they can't read technical papers, even in English.

The secret is there are vast amount of aeronautics technical papers, in Chinese language, on the Internet, for anyone to read.

The Chinese state/military secrets, are open to anyone, who wants to learn them.

 

[Shotgunner51]

If most of Chinese senior members on PDF saying that indigenous engine install on J-20 doesn't mean that home made AL-31M2 is called "indigenous engine" its called "reversed engineered" engine because he believe his eye cathcing assessment

Well bro let's agree to disagree and move on, let's continue to post on technical matters, I have zero knowledge on this subject so I would like to know more. Thanks!