What's new

Çay Bahçesi

The piece explains the flow of air over an object e.g. wing and how the airstream behaves afterwards by using POD method.
Nope, in the article "plane" means "düzlem" or we can say "kesit", it's not aeroplane.

Think like; they are crossing (kesiştirme) two jet streams and analysing it's behavior.
 
.
Fluid Dynamic is not my strong point but, i remember these kind of flow analysis made by programs like CFDesign.

They are presenting an alternate method to be more time efficient?
Actually POD is used to interpret experimental data;
Based on energy considerations, the POD captures the most energetic and hence largest structures of the flow in the first modes. Thus, if the dynamics of the flow is dominated by a few large flow structures the data can often be represented satisfactorily using only a few of the first modes
It relies on Eigen analysis of space or/and time grid to determine flow modes. Thus flow can be reconstructed from 2-D snapshots of measurement devices (PID)
Recently it is also used for post processing and storage of result files as simulations become more intense (finer resolution in time and space , in sum).
 
.
Actually POD is used to interpret experimental data;

It relies on Eigen analysis of space or/and time grid to determine flow modes. Thus flow can be reconstructed from 2-D snapshots of measurement devices (PID)
Recently it is also used for post processing and storage of result files as simulations become more intense (finer resolution in time and space , in sum).
It won't be experimental but can't you do the same thing with CFD ? That said why would we need "Rüzgar Tüneli tests" if we could do the same thing with CFD.

So, this analysis being used for validating your design/calculations?
 
.
I'm not a mechanical engineer, but from what I can understand. The piece explains the flow of air over an object e.g. wing and how the airstream behaves afterwards by using POD method.

In either case would I be wrong if I said understanding this topic/piece would be an important step in developing UAV, and perhaps an engine as well.

I haven't read the whole piece (it's pretty complicated for a non engineers), but wouldn't air currents behavior change depending on the altitude.

Would the air current from an engine effect the UAV ? where should the engine be placed to create least effect on a UAV.
the POD is used for examining 2-D snapshots of measurement device to derive characteristics of the flow, for better evaluation of results instead of staring at instantaneously taken 2-D images.
Somehow like generating a GIF from images, but using velocity (or other flow fields) instead of RGB.
It other way it can be compared to compression of audio files, from raw-flac to mp3.

So, this analysis being used for validating your design/calculations?
What i actually wanted to point out, the POD has emerged in earlier times when simulations was rather weak, with low resolution. In the article it was also applied for experimental study.
You can validate your simulations without POD as well comparing pressure-velocity field but this rather becomes harder when we get to compare turbulent flows with strong fluctuations such as the one in the article. Also uncertainties may arise in experiments and it is not easy to compare in head to head style. POD rather eases the comparison by decomposing flow field into what they called "mode" can be implemented in both.
We used POD to compress result files, i heard some people adopted it for post-processing of large chunky CFD data which was not possible to process (a few dozens of TB if i remember right).
Actually, it is similar with mode superposition method applied in vibration. A flow mode is analogical to vibrational mode.
We need both experiments and simulations. It is another level of discussion that even profs in conferences cynically judges each other over this :).

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but from what I can understand. The piece explains the flow of air over an object e.g. wing and how the airstream behaves afterwards by using POD method.

In either case would I be wrong if I said understanding this topic/piece would be an important step in developing UAV, and perhaps an engine as well.

I haven't read the whole piece (it's pretty complicated for a non engineers), but wouldn't air currents behavior change depending on the altitude.

Would the air current from an engine effect the UAV ? where should the engine be placed to create least effect on a UAV.
I think these questions can be answered better by aeronautical engineers.
 
.

Thanks for the answers though, I understand a bit better now.

I think the video illustrates this.
 
. .
We used POD to compress result files, i heard some people adopted it for post-processing of large chunky CFD data which was not possible to process (a few dozens of TB if i remember right).
Actually, it is similar with mode superposition method applied in vibration. A flow mode is analogical to vibrational mode.
We need both experiments and simulations. It is another level of discussion that even profs in conferences cynically judges each other over this :).

Excellent summary. We have employed some of this in current projects I am working on.

You are indeed correct we use POD and DMD in post-processing in a few specialised ways, given sampling rates of CFD w.r.t assumptions that may not hold (and limit further useful use) if you take discrete snapshot directly.

In either case would I be wrong if I said understanding this topic/piece would be an important step in developing UAV, and perhaps an engine as well.

Yes, but not directly applicable (more a mid or late stream concept for specific application to a particular system).

You would have to treat/isolate a feature/problem etc of an existing base design. How to make a broader module (with well understood limitations) thats adaptable to whole range/class of systems will need research and development too.

i.e you would have to start from first principles way back, and at some point in design refinement you see the advantage to isolating a particular feature/environment interaction for the system for further resolution.

As just one example, one of my doctoral advisors was heavily involved in a specific (but pretty serious) LERX buffeting mode that diminished the performance of the early F-18 (back when it was being heavily tested) in a particular regime of flight (that didnt show up in the modelling earlier during those days...and even today).

They basically took approach something like this paper to gain the proper resolution of the issue and implement a patch fix for it (after considering all the tradeoffs w.r.t changing the design fundamentally versus "patching") that still works to this day (carried over to SH even) and is near forgotten about basically. I could talk at some length on the matter, but it will be boring.

Its actually a more relevant (in somewhat earlier iterative step in development) process for Engines like you said. Thats my line of work...using a range of tools and research methods (some macro, but mostly micro analysis using good resolution discipline and stochastic control) to improve jet engine combustion stability and performance....because the flows inside can get quite complex (they are still not understood that well esp when you increase resolution) and there is lot of room for continual improvement given nature and legacy of iterative small % improvements in this field.

But it is really mid and final tier stuff, most of the early development for engines for any country/company is more geared towards setting the scope for materials research, thermodynamics/turbomachinery research and fluids research.

I haven't read the whole piece (it's pretty complicated for a non engineers), but wouldn't air currents behavior change depending on the altitude.

Broadly yes...but there are lot more air current features (of early basic relevance to UAV performance) to incorporate than this specific one done in this paper. This is more if you want to keep improving a UAV for example because you found a specific regime of aerodynamics it faces of relevance past the initial scope.

Would the air current from an engine effect the UAV ? where should the engine be placed to create least effect on a UAV.

Depends on number of design tradeoffs. Ideally you want engine as far away from lifting/aerodynamic surfaces as possible and simply interacting only with propulsion realm (why its there for). But there are several design considerations (weight distribution, basic geometry, orientation etc) that come into play that counter-influence and the engineers thus need to come to a compromise. These would all have far much more play in the early basic design of aircraft compared to a refined iterative improvement later. Its somewhat rare you would have POD or DMD process setting an early or even mid design envelope for example.
 
.
images


Interesting book from Osprey Publishing is coming in September 2020.
 
.
images


Interesting book from Osprey Publishing is coming in September 2020.
Nothing new, but why are they publishing a new book. Is it because there is a market for it now, or could someone have an interest in digging up old story to cause a rift ?
 
.
Nothing new, but why are they publishing a new book. Is it because there is a market for it now, or could someone have an interest in digging up old story to cause a rift ?

Osprey publishing never published a Italian-Turkish war in Libya.

Due to the Libyan issue of today I think readers might be interested in reading it. To be honest Im gonna read it too I like the illustration of uniforms from Osprey it looks cool and nice.
 
.
Guys who live in Turkey , why do u think interior ministry imposed lockdown on weekend and then Erdogan cancelled it.?
 
.
Becausr they don’t coordinate anymore and RTE trying to look good by overruling his own ministers.

RTE has flaunted his dislike for authority many times through his career. But apprently he doesn’t like having his own authority flaunted.

I truly fear YAS this year. At the hands of politicians who have no honor or grasp of TSK values, we’ll see resignations.
 
.
Dumb people are ruling a great country. We're all responsible of this. Next election we should vote for the right person but unfortunately no one has balls or a good plan to vote for him.
 
.
DEVA and GP may have something to offer, but I am leaning on IYI party. I just need to know the political parties clear stance on TSK and our endeavors such as Libya, Mavi Vatan and fight against PKK.

If they say operations will continue just like now, they got my vote.
 
. .
Back
Top Bottom