Can Muslims sing "Vande_Mataram"?

[Awesome]

Absolute true.. here what we are discussing which my government approved as "National Song".. what I sing at my home including or excluding those parts is none of other's business.. right?

But still your government hasn't removed the bowing part. The problem is not with the rest of it, its with the words Vande Mataram. Change that too.

 

[saurabh]

In 1937 AIML gave its danda to the congress and they had to agree to it.

Why they did is not the point of discussion here. You said its a prayer for devi "Durga". But it is not. About meaning of Vande, it may have several meaning, one of them is salute, which is acceptable is Islam.

 

[Awesome]

Request you to read full post and then reply.. No bow discussion was there.. What I was mentioning whether you accept Aadab or not. It also exist same as many muslims say Khuda Hafiz in place of Allah Hafiz.

I have never used Adaab, also note you're getting into the technical religious practices here, while we as a forum don't dictate nor discuss the rights and wrongs of a religious practice, however the argument is simply, that if Muslims say its against their religion they should have the freedom to profess their religion and reject the Vande Mataram.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

Why they did is not the point of discussion here. You said its a prayer for devi "Durga". But it is not. About meaning of Vande, it may have several meaning, one of them is salute, which is acceptable is Islam.

You say its not, I say it is. It is something religious and open to interpretation.

 

[Pride]

But still your government hasn't removed the bowing part. The problem is not with the rest of it, its with the words Vande Mataram. Change that too.

I dont think there is a change required as
1) This is poet's imagination and creative work which need not to be touched, while it can be used partially in different aspect.
2) "Vande Mataram" is "Pray to Mother" in english (I referred earlier that was another poet's choice of words) or "Sajda-e-Maa" in Urdu. The literal meaning does not hold when you are following poetic means of symbolism. Remember again where you said Hindustaan's symbolic meaning.

 

[Pride]

I have never used Adaab, also note you're getting into the technical religious practices here, while we as a forum don't dictate nor discuss the rights and wrongs of a religious practice, however the argument is simply, that if Muslims say its against their religion they should have the freedom to profess their religion and reject the Vande Mataram.

I am replying here only my part. What we are here discussing technicalities which changes as per choice and then someone declare it non-islamic. Deoband declared it Non-Islamic you are supporting it when same Deoband discarded demand of Pakistan saying it non-islamic then you have no problem.

Neither I nor my constitution impose "Vande Mataram" on Muslims those who dont want to recite. This is "National Song" and not "National Anthem". Government and us pay respect to the song hence it is got such a higher position.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------


You say its not, I say it is. It is something religious and open to interpretation.

 

[Spring Onion]

One more analogy I want to point here.. Before partition, Allama Iqbal sang "Sare Jahan se acchha Hindusitaan hamara"..its literal meaning is that "The best place in the world is Hindu's place".. right? Do you consider him Muslim or not?

Lolzzz so we are right when we say Indians think Hindustan is Hindus' place. right ??

secondly we can praise Hindus and other non-Muslims there is no ban on praising someone in Islam neither Islam forbids you to praise non-Muslims.


Please do see the difference between doing shirk and praising someone.

 

[Pride]

Lolzzz so we are right when we say Indians think Hindustan is Hindus' place. right ??

You jumped very lately ma'm. I was just devil's advocating for a literal and poetic meaning. I was not the one who wrote that. Hindustaan has literal meaning as "Hindu's place" which our constitution never used. Our constitution says "India that is Bharat".

secondly we can praise Hindus and other non-Muslims there is no ban on praising someone in Islam neither Islam forbids you to praise non-Muslims.

So praising your mother land is forbidden in Islam?

Please do see the difference between doing shirk and praising someone.

I am not going into the technicality of the same. The point is, If poetic meaning of this song is to praise the nation then No need of bringing literal meaning on this.

 

[eric_cartman]

If you like singing it sing it, if you don't like singing then don't. Plus I feel most us don't follow anything strictly so if you think you made mistake in past then don't do in future otherwise keep singing

 

[Tshering22]

True indeed! But then you stopped short on saying 'India IS NOT a Hindu Country as well and nor we intend it to be! ' Don't be so SELECTIVE man!

Indian muslims, to my knowldge, NEVER sing this song proudly! You are placing your assumptions as Fact here. Refrain from it please. Had it been the case there would have been no controversy!

Really? I guess then a small section of the people you know from Muslim community has some sort of identity crisis .

What do you mean India is not a mainstream Hindu country either? The religion originated here on these lands, the majority are mainstream Hindus.

As a Vajrayana Buddhist, I don't have any problem in accepting that because Hindu tolerance and openness is the result India exists as a democracy and not a theocratic insane state. Even His Holiness the Dalai Lama said that in front of the entire world despite not being Indian.

Why deny that? Turkey no matter whether it follows sharia is still inherently Muslim. So whether Indian consitution either defined by Gita or not is inherently Hindu with other sister faiths and non-Indian faiths living here in harmony.

The Muslims I have known, heard of and read about are really proud Indians and don't have any problems in singing Vande Mataram with patriotism.

 

[Iggy]

Indian muslims, to my knowldge, NEVER sing this song proudly! You are placing your assumptions as Fact here. Refrain from it please. Had it been the case there would have been no controversy!

Fighter it may be your knowledge but for me as far as i know Indian Muslims had no problem singing it..as soon as some fanatics gave religious angle to it,it become controversy..as many posters pointed out A.R Rehman composed the song Vandemathram and it was a huge success among Indians..everybody sung that song including Muslims..there were no problem at that time..it was a cheap attempt by some people to get name nothing else..

 

[Hyde]

Hey brother....Army men irrespective of nation salutes to their higher officers..rite???? pays homage to shahids also rite??? wat form of bowing is that one??

Its not bowing.............. its called Salute right?

 

[Shear Wave]

Its not bowing.............. its called Salute right?

Yes salutes...if i bow to some one its just mean that they deserve something....salute is just the military version of bowing

 

[Hyde]

Yes salutes...if i bow to some one its just mean that they deserve something....salute is just the military version of bowing

Well i don't find anything wrong it, Al-Zakir apparently does

Sorry @ Al-Zakir

 

[Al-zakir]

Yaar Zakir, even I don't believe bowing a bit in front of anybody lead you to shirk. The intentions are very important.... like Allah says in the Holy Qur'an "everything is based upon Intentions". It depends how you are bowing in front of somebody. If you are intending to worship...... It can be classed as "Shirk" but if you are doing this just for the sake of "respect". I don't see any harm in it.

Even the scholars does not agree that bowing in front of anybody lead you to Shirk. Some scholar says its "Shirk" while other says its "Haram" while the third party call it "Makrooh". I don't think its either of them as long as your intentions are OK. I will only object if somebody is prostrating anything but God but bowing down a bit can be classed as the sign of respect/gesture

I think its time when we come back to the topic

Hindu consider their mother a form of God and some even perform puja. Vande matram is just that because it was written by Hindu with intension of bow to mother just like bow to god.

So we agree that Muslim must not sing this song since it lead to shirk. NO.

 

[Hyde]

@Al-Zakir

Well I respect Dr Israr Ahmed and consider him to be one of the best scholars of recent times (May Allah bless him and grant him paradise) and you must have seen a lot of his lectures on Shirk. He too holds the similar opinion as you and agrees bowing in front anybody but god is Shirk. But he also mentioned in one of his lectures that bowing a bit as a respect is not Shirk. By bowing he always mean if you are bowing upto certain levels that the others find it prostrating and apparently reflects the worshipping of God. If you bow down a bit as a sign of respect less than to the allowed degree or something like that........ It should still be fine and there is no harm in it.

Thats an extract from one of his lectures