Can Muslims sing "Vande_Mataram"?

[Pride]

Sorry for being offtopic here but I want to Thank Asim Aquil for a wonderful job to bring the topic back on track..

 

[Iggy]

Seiko, please check your facts at ALL INDIA level. Do not qoute examples from ILLITRATE remote muslim village BACHCHA'S as an example! The ALL INDIA opposition to singing Vande-Matram from Indian Muslims is LOUD and CLEAR!

Fighter is AR Rehman is an illitrate??what about the guys used to sing it when it was popular among Indians at that time/??..here we go

`Vande mataram` not un-Islamic: MP Muslim groups

so much for All India opposition loud and clear


Vande Mataram' not un-Islamic: Muslim groups
Bhopal: It is not un-Islamic to sing "Vande Mataram", two prominent Muslim groups in Madhya Pradesh said Thursday, two days after the clerics' body Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind approved an earlier fatwa against the national song.

Claiming to have translated the song into Urdu, the All India Muslim Tehwar Committee (AIMTC) and the National Secularism Front of India (NSFI) say it is simply a prayer to keep the nation safe.

"It is not against Islam or un-Islamic. This is the reason why several Muslim freedom fighters chose to lay down their lives singing 'Vande Mataram'," claimed AIMTC chairman Osaf Shahmeeri Khurram.

Khurram said "Vande mataram" is not a prayer to a mother goddess. "It is a prayer to the almighty to keep the nation safe and thus there should be no problem in singing or reciting it," he said.

"Even Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind chief Mehmood Madani's grandfather Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani and his father Asad Madani who was also a Congress MP had sung 'Vande mataram' on various occasions," he claimed.

"Had 'Vande Mataram' been un-Islamic then Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani, Maulana Hasrat Mohani, Maulana Obeidullah Sindhi or martyr Ashfaqullah would not have laid down their lives singing 'Vande Mataram'."

Khurram, who claims that his organisation has 350,000 members in the country and has branches in 610 districts, asserted that the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind and Darul-ul-Uloom in Deoband - which had issued the original fatwa - were ignorant of the facts.

NSFI president Irshad Ali Khan Afridi also said "Vande Mataram" was not un-islamic. "The controversies arise only because people who issue such diktats have failed to understand it. They are, it seems, not aware of the facts," Afridi said.

"Why did no cleric oppose music director AR Rahman when he sang the song which not only became quite popular but also took him to new heights of his career?" he asked.

 

[Pride]

Fighter is AR Rehman is an illitrate??what about the guys used to sing it when it was popular among Indians at that time/??..here we go

`Vande mataram` not un-Islamic: MP Muslim groups

so much for All India opposition loud and clear


Vande Mataram' not un-Islamic: Muslim groups
Bhopal: It is not un-Islamic to sing "Vande Mataram", two prominent Muslim groups in Madhya Pradesh said Thursday, two days after the clerics' body Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind approved an earlier fatwa against the national song.

Claiming to have translated the song into Urdu, the All India Muslim Tehwar Committee (AIMTC) and the National Secularism Front of India (NSFI) say it is simply a prayer to keep the nation safe.

"It is not against Islam or un-Islamic. This is the reason why several Muslim freedom fighters chose to lay down their lives singing 'Vande Mataram'," claimed AIMTC chairman Osaf Shahmeeri Khurram.

Khurram said "Vande mataram" is not a prayer to a mother goddess. "It is a prayer to the almighty to keep the nation safe and thus there should be no problem in singing or reciting it," he said.

"Even Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind chief Mehmood Madani's grandfather Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani and his father Asad Madani who was also a Congress MP had sung 'Vande mataram' on various occasions," he claimed.

"Had 'Vande Mataram' been un-Islamic then Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani, Maulana Hasrat Mohani, Maulana Obeidullah Sindhi or martyr Ashfaqullah would not have laid down their lives singing 'Vande Mataram'."

Khurram, who claims that his organisation has 350,000 members in the country and has branches in 610 districts, asserted that the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind and Darul-ul-Uloom in Deoband - which had issued the original fatwa - were ignorant of the facts.

NSFI president Irshad Ali Khan Afridi also said "Vande Mataram" was not un-islamic. "The controversies arise only because people who issue such diktats have failed to understand it. They are, it seems, not aware of the facts," Afridi said.
"Why did no cleric oppose music director AR Rahman when he sang the song which not only became quite popular but also took him to new heights of his career?" he asked.

This what I am saying from the brgining, The point is if you are going to take any poem's literal meaning you are not going to reach its main feeling. If its portic meaning is to glorify the nation then you have to look for that otherwise there are thousands of practices which will have one or another discussion.

 

[Fighter488]

Fighter, that is all debateable.. personally I have no opinion on vande matram... because love for country is one thing, and love for god is another.. even if i sing it as a Muslim, I don't think it is shirk at all, because everything depends on a person's niyat.. again, everyone is different.. to me country is not above god because countries are merely a human creation.. and rely on patriotic egoitism.. but ofcourse if you truly believe that if you sing vande matram you will equate your country with god.. than you shouldn't sing.. it matters individual to individual.. i don't care what a bunch of no-work mullah's say.. they have tendency to lead people like sheep.. and that is also what majority of Indians are.. sheep... regardless of religion.. Worship depends on your niyat not just by saying something.. heck, being a muslim you should know that even if you pray but niyat is not there.. your prayer will not be accepted.. so please tell me how can vande matram be shirk when your niyat is not to equate it with god?? its just a stupid issue.. another chance to get people to flock like sheep.. the rich-poor divide.. dats all..

-Javed

Thanks for your contribution here.
Reffering to the bold part in your post here.

You call followers as sheep but you started your argument with as much naivity as a sheep. ' personally I have no opinion on vande matram', you wrote, meaning then, that, you are a follower, a SHEEP ( to qoute you)! Either you follow who oppose it or you follow who support it, BEACUSE you do not have a personal opinion to it! If you are NOT a SHEEP then your ACTIONS MUST be followed by reasoning firmly and logically. You have to be on either side, when there come a question to your very basic reason of existence. This can only be done with a solid opinion.

Niyat come only after a certain standard of faith is confirmed! "Qulo Wal-Laho Ahad" is that STANDARD! Niyat follows it much later. If a muslim that qoute from so called MULLAH faith, in your opinion is from a HERD OF SHEEP follower, then what you call yourself giving, supporting and practicing blindly to SHIRK propaganda! A HYPOCRITE, if not a sheep? There were similer reasons hypocrites used to justify thier actions in prophet (PBUH) time as well. You seem to miss here!

Countries are as such, as you said. If countries are human creations, then they MUST be treated like wise. They are FINITE. History is witness to the fact that empires follow a definite cycle of LIFE AND DEATH. Boundries are created, redifined, recreated, decay and destroyed. Nothing is permanent except ALLAH.

Worship come ONLY after the acknowldgment that ALLAH IS WAHID. This is FAITH and a major part of Islam! If a muslim do not believe in it then he / she is a mushrik, not a muslim. There are a lot of videos on this subject on internet, particularly from (Late) Dr. Israr Ahmed (rh) that you can refer to, if you can put aside your aversion to MULLAH for some time; all to your benefit !

 

[Bang Galore]

@Zaki
This song is not the national song .

PS: Thats not a national song of India right?

It is the national song, different from being the national anthem.

 

[justanobserver]

@Fighter

Calm down dude, religion is after all a human creation too

 

[Fighter488]

Fighter is AR Rehman is an illitrate??

A R Rehman is a PROFESSIONAL composer. He is PAID for it! Bollywood has these examples in quite abundence seiko. Money is the religion there!

two prominent Muslim groups in Madhya Pradesh said Thursday, two days after the clerics' body Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind approved an earlier fatwa against the national song.

And you are equating two (Zee News called) prominent ROOTLESS muslim groups to JAMAIT-E-ISLAMI-HIND! Wow ... New lows of reasoning and equality, seiko!

Claiming to have translated the song into Urdu, the All India Muslim Tehwar Committee (AIMTC) and the National Secularism Front of India (NSFI) say it is simply a prayer to keep the nation safe.

That is a claim. UNSUBSTANTIATED AND UN-APPROVEDtill date, my dear. And you are qouting SECULAR fronts in purely religious affairs!

Khurram said "Vande mataram" is not a prayer to a mother goddess. "It is a prayer to the almighty to keep the nation safe and thus there should be no problem in singing or reciting it," he said.

Almighty ! A Godess!

"Even Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind chief Mehmood Madani's grandfather Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani and his father Asad Madani who was also a Congress MP had sung 'Vande mataram' on various occasions," he claimed.


"Had 'Vande Mataram' been un-Islamic then Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani, Maulana Hasrat Mohani, Maulana Obeidullah Sindhi or martyr Ashfaqullah would not have laid down their lives singing 'Vande Mataram'."

I felt a big surprise on these WHITE LIES for these revelations. But then what can be expected from hypocrites, except pure lie and deciet to justify their Ill-Logic!

Khurram, who claims that his organisation has 350,000 members in the country and has branches in 610 districts, asserted that the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind and Darul-ul-Uloom in Deoband - which had issued the original fatwa - were ignorant of the facts.

What a fun !

 

[gubbi]

I felt a big surprise on these WHITE LIES for these revelations. But then what can be expected from hypocrites, except pure lie and deciet to justify their Ill-Logic!
What a fun !

Can you post sources to support your claim? Or is it that you are so blinded by something, don't want to see the truth.

Btw, tell me something, does a devout Muslim who fulfills all the requirements of Islam will cease to be a true Muslim if he/she utters those verses in honor of our country? A country gives you everything and yet it comes second to religion, which in fact gives you nothing!

What does religion give you that it surpasses your country in terms of respect it really deserves. And what is with all those terminologies being floated around to 'describe' anyone who deviates from the path of 'righteousness'. Whoever gave you the right to judge others? Isnt it written in every religious book that judging another person is wrong. And yet there are these hyperbolized terminologies to judge and describe people for their actions! Wow!

Anywho, Vande Maataram is a National Song. It is NOT compulsory to sing it, but if you feel patriotic enough, you are free to sing it. Period.

 

[Fighter488]

Can you post sources to support your claim? Or is it that you are so blinded by something, don't want to see the truth.

Btw, tell me something, does a devout Muslim who fulfills all the requirements of Islam will cease to be a true Muslim if he/she utters those verses in honor of our country? A country gives you everything and yet it comes second to religion, which in fact gives you nothing!

What does religion give you that it surpasses your country in terms of respect it really deserves. And what is with all those terminologies being floated around to 'describe' anyone who deviates from the path of 'righteousness'. Whoever gave you the right to judge others? Isnt it written in every religious book that judging another person is wrong. And yet there are these hyperbolized terminologies to judge and describe people for their actions! Wow!

Anywho, Vande Maataram is a National Song. It is NOT compulsory to sing it, but if you feel patriotic enough, you are free to sing it. Period.

Cool Boy ... cool!
These are not my claims, but majority muslim belive and practice.

The reasons and proofs to safegaurd the argument lies on OTHER PARTY. They have to prove that they are right, if they claim something other than the KNOWN AND ACKNOWLDGED facts!

 

[gubbi]

Cool Boy ... cool!
These are not my claims, but majority muslim belive and practice.

The reasons and proofs to safegaurd the argument lies on OTHER PARTY. They have to prove that they are right, if they claim something other than the KNOWN AND ACKNOWLDGED facts!

I dont fracking care what beliefs are. Show me facts and I will be your slave.

The onus is on you for you were the one who claimed "White Lies". Show the proof on which you claimed those to be white lies. Reread that part of our history and then claim otherwise. Btw, just so that you know and understand, Seiko's claim is to be taken in context of the freedom struggle and not literally.

Btw, would you care to show what those KNOWN and ACKNOWLEDGED facts are? I am waiting.

 

[d14gtc]

Well singing "Vande Matram" is not a compultion to neone here in india nomatter which religion he/she preches or belong to.Its our Tradition coming from ages : We always Bow in respect of our Mother first who is feeding us than even who has given birth to us:

Thats the diffenrence that our Mother Country is always n Ever comes first after that our religion.As our First Religion is Being INDIAN.

There is never been written newhere about its compultions to sing for all.Its only The Respect and feeling for The Mother which grows inthe hearts of millions and comes out in words.But cant be forced to grow in neone's who doesnt want to.

 

[Fighter488]

I dont fracking care what beliefs are. Show me facts and I will be your slave.

The onus is on you for you were the one who claimed "White Lies". Show the proof on which you claimed those to be white lies. Reread that part of our history and then claim otherwise. Btw, just so that you know and understand, Seiko's claim is to be taken in context of the freedom struggle and not literally.

Btw, would you care to show what those KNOWN and ACKNOWLEDGED facts are? I am waiting.

If you do not know what I am reffering to, then you are not in debate! CLAIMS by these secular muslim fronts, as mentioned by seiko, must be substantiated with proof from them. That is what I was reffering to. I am NOT going to prove them right! They have to prove themselves!

By the way it is enough for me on this thread This is my last post here.

 

[Nav]

How idiotic can posts be?

I mean are you logically handicapped or mentaly not well -do you understand the meaning of the song - it equates one's motherland to god and thats it - I believe the muslims in India are educated enough to understand that and sing the song anyways. You can feel free to change the thought to Ullah if you may and then sing the song.

And we are not like pakistan where minority is not allowed to raise a voice. Muslims in India have a stong representation and if any of this had any merit based on any Islamic laws then i am sure India would have accommodated and allowed the Muslims to not sing this song.

Snap out of your hatred towards India and move on! There is no Hindu terror group on the streets of any city in India that targets any muslims. of course there are incidents but then do you not have them in Pakistan.

So please refrain from talking nonsense and come up with something more convinving yeah?

bajrang Dil, Vishwa Hind prashed, Shiv sena , R.s.s , these All are extremist and Terrorist Organizations.
These All above organizations involved in Muslim Geocide. In Gujrat..
They Also killed many christians.