Can Muslims sing "Vande_Mataram"?

[EjazR]

You can't just make up stuff, Tasleem means acceptance.

Change it to Tasleem Mataram then

Or wait wait, I can do Hindi too: Sweekaar Mataram? Or can you make it like Sweekar Bharatum? Perfect hojaye ga.

See we can all make up stuff.

No tasleemat is also a poetic way of saying salam.

Ever heard of the greetings during sher shayar sessions?

Yaarane Bazm, Aadab o tasleemat !

I do know a little bit Urdu as well you know

 

[graphican]

@ EjazR,

Translation of Vande Mataram in Urdu
Tasleemat, maan tasleemat

This is the only part that is part of theVande Mataram song. Ofcourse, even those who don't sing it, respect the song. Just like as a muslim you should respect other people's place of worship or beliefs. Not singing it does not mean that you don't have to respect it.

Sure, we respect believes of others and give them freedom to perform whatever they want, as long as it remains un-hostile to the Muslims.

I think Tasleemat, bow and Vand are not giving any different meaning but what they are intend to mean. Tasleemat also means bowing your head down. Now I wonder if bowing head down to Bharat Devi "okay" for you? for Muslims it is not.. For Jameat-Ulema-e-Hind it is not.

Its not a new issue I guess, even at the time of Partition this issue was there and Muslims never surrendered their belief system at any time for the appeasement of others. Hope this holds true even after 63 and 630 years. What was not right then, is not right now either.

Plus don't mix it with anything that gives -ve impression about Muslims of India as against India. NO Sir, Muslims who are born in India are Indians and we respect their sentiments and patriotism for their country. I also expect this from Non-Muslims in India to give Muslims the same honor as they give to anybody else in India. Indian Muslims are Indians, no doubt about it but by being Indian, they do not become non-Muslims.. let that aspect also be clear.

Have a good day.

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

This issue is for Indian Muslims to ponder over. Apparently they have no problems singing it. So why we stuck our noses in such matters? Let them sing what they want, Islam doesn't allow many things like terrorism or killing innocents but we have the best of Muslims doing that daily.

 

[Awesome]

No tasleemat is also a poetic way of saying salam.

Ever heard of the greetings during sher shayar sessions?

Yaarane Bazm, Aadab o tasleemat !

I do know a little bit Urdu as well you know

Adaab o Tasleemat means, accept my adaab! Or more precisely "Appreciation and acceptance".

Obviously knowing a little bit of Urdu in this case, its akin to the "neem hakeem" mahavara.

 

[Awesome]

What are people talking of here!

Didn't all Muslims bow in front of their kings and Sultans?

Why is bowing to your motherland a problem then?

Not out of freewill, it was more of a threat - are you a King ordering the Muslims to bow down?

More importantly I'm pretty sure no one bowed to the Prophet nor the original 4 Khalifa's. I repeat this is basic, not a strict version of Islam.

Strict version of Islam states that you shouldn't even stand up in respect for people of high status, you can stand up if you truly respect them for their deeds. Lots of nitty gritty there, but the fact that we don't bow to anyone but Allah, that's basic.

 

[Awesome]

This issue is for Indian Muslims to ponder over. Apparently they have no problems singing it. So why we stuck our noses in such matters? Let them sing what they want, Islam doesn't allow many things like terrorism or killing innocents but we have the best of Muslims doing that daily.

It's an interesting thing to ponder over since it was one of the issues that contributed to the Tehreek-e-Pakistan and it apparently still exists in India.

 

[Vinod2070]

lovely to see such statements in every thread. We should not target Hindus as there are 10 million in Pakistan but India has more than 200 million Muslims so its okay.

It was in poor taste but it was not directed towards Indian Muslims or even Muslims in general, only towards a couple of fools who provoke such stuff.

They perhaps don't realize (or may be they do) that they are provoking retaliation against what they claim to revere. They just seem to be hate filled zombies.

 

[somya]

Adaab o Tasleemat means, accept my adaab! Or more precisely "Appreciation and acceptance".

Obviously knowing a little bit of Urdu in this case, its akin to the "neem hakeem" mahavara.

You have never lived your religion. For me you are below Kafir.
The religion is another name of Love. If Loving your Mother is sin then your life is sh i t.
These words 'Adab' 'tasleemat' are useless words used by Maulvis to fool common people.
A common man will bow to anyone who will give him Love and respect.
I love Pakistanis and you are not one of them you are a blind man taking opium of religion.

 

[Awesome]

You have never lived your religion. For me you are below Kafir.
The religion is another name of Love. If Loving your Mother is sin then your life is sh i t.
These words 'Adab' 'tasleemat' are useless words used by Maulvis to fool common people.
A common man will bow to anyone who will give him Love and respect.
I love Pakistanis and you are not one of them you are a blind man taking opium of religion.

You can have a nice life...

 

[Vinod2070]

Not out of freewill, it was more of a threat - are you a King ordering the Muslims to bow down?

More importantly I'm pretty sure no one bowed to the Prophet nor the original 4 Khalifa's. I repeat this is basic, not a strict version of Islam.

Strict version of Islam states that you shouldn't even stand up in respect for people of high status, you can stand up if you truly respect them for their deeds. Lots of nitty gritty there, but the fact that we don't bow to anyone but Allah, that's basic.

I am not a king or anything. I am not asking anyone to bow down.

Just asking a basic question since bowing seems to be such a big issue here.

Why did Islamic kings enforce something so anti-Islamic?

 

[Al-zakir]

I did a little research on it later on and found two views which I explained in my previous post. I have not delved further but I can confirm that the Sanskrit meaning of Vande is has multiple meanings and one is also Salam or Salute.

Meaning can be derived to accommodate understanding but I am sure you would rather use Salam instead of Vande even though meaning may be the same. You and my name is in Arabic because we are Muslim but if we translate our name to Sanskrit then it would not sound Islamic.

Translation of Vande Mataram in Urdu
Tasleemat, maan tasleemat
tu bhari hai meethe pani se
phal phoolon ki shadabi se
dakkin ki thandi hawaon se
faslon ki suhani fizaaon se
tasleemat, maan tasleemat
teri raaten roshan chand se
teri raunaq sabze faam se
teri pyar bhari muskan hai
teri meethi bahut zuban hai
teri banhon mein meri rahat hai
tere qadmon mein meri jannat hai
tasleemat, maan tasleemat

I bow to thee, Mother,
richly-watered, richly-fruited,
cool with the winds of the south,
dark with the crops of the harvests,
the Mother!


Her nights rejoicing
in the glory of the moonlight,
her lands clothed beautifully
with her trees in flowering bloom,
sweet of laughter,
sweet of speech,
The Mother,
giver of boons, giver of bliss!

This may not be right translation of vandre matram. Tasleem in Urdu is equivalent of Mubarak or congratulation in English whereas vandre matram mean I bow to thee, Mother. You and I both know that we can not bow none other than Allah. Hence it's shirk if you sing vandre matram in original form. Urdu version entirely different. He may have done it save the Muslim from shirk.

 

[Awesome]

I am not a king or anything. I am not asking anyone to bow down.

Just asking a basic question since bowing seems to be such a big issue here.

Why did Islamic kings enforce something so anti-Islamic?

Kingship itself is un-Islamic . Food for thought.

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

It's an interesting thing to ponder over since it was one of the issues that contributed to the Tehreek-e-Pakistan and it apparently still exists in India.

I do see your point but the wounds of partition have pretty much healed up (except in Kashmir) and Muslims living under the auspices of Indian government should have made a decision by now...

"Hmm do I want to keep singing this song or flee to Pakistan?"

The choice is apparent, presently speaking.

 

[EjazR]

Adaab o Tasleemat means, accept my adaab! Or more precisely "Appreciation and acceptance".

Obviously knowing a little bit of Urdu in this case, its akin to the "neem hakeem" mahavara.

From an online dictionary Urdu to English Dictionary | English to Urdu Dictionary | ????? ??????? ????

TO MAKE A CURTSY تسلیمات کہنا

Curtsy is another word for greetings salutations.

Acceptance is tasleem as in tasleem shuda.

 

[Fighter488]

Personally I do not even know all the words so I have not sung it. We use to have functions around it ofcourse but not forces you to sing it. Except ofcourse the AR Rahman version Maa Tujhe Salam. In school it was Jana Gana Mana that was sung on occasions and I sing that and I do remember all the words to that.

I did a little research on it later on and found two views which I explained in my previous post. I have not delved further but I can confirm that the Sanskrit meaning of Vande is has multiple meanings and one is also Salam or Salute.

It was after Mohammed Arif Khan's translation that I had second thoughts and I think that if the ulema along with Sanskrit scholars can confirm this is an accurate translation. I don't see any objection. Read the translation and tell me where is the shirk?

Translation of Vande Mataram in Urdu
Tasleemat, maan tasleemat
tu bhari hai meethe pani se
phal phoolon ki shadabi se
dakkin ki thandi hawaon se
faslon ki suhani fizaaon se
tasleemat, maan tasleemat
teri raaten roshan chand se
teri raunaq sabze faam se
teri pyar bhari muskan hai
teri meethi bahut zuban hai
teri banhon mein meri rahat hai
tere qadmon mein meri jannat hai
tasleemat, maan tasleemat -


This is the only part that is part of theVande Mataram song. Ofcourse, even those who don't sing it, respect the song. Just like as a muslim you should respect other people's place of worship or beliefs. Not singing it does not mean that you don't have to respect it.

Ejaz,

Untill unless thier is a FORM/BODY/STATUE is associated with word 'Maan', here in this translation, it will remain Un-ISLAMIC!

Arif Mohammad Khan is no SCHOLAR of Sanskrit, by any yardstick. His political views were always questioned by muslims many time before. His political career is still what is best summed up by urdu phrase 'THALI KA BAIGAN' in Indian political circus. His (mis)-adventures with Vande-Matram is nothing more than failed political f*rt, to be polite with him! Word 'Vande', till date, remain associated with Hindu diety. Respecting it as a religious symbol is one thing and PRACTICING it in the name of respect is quite different. Indian Muslims, or for that matter any muslim worldover, will always oppose to bow to other than ALLAH.