Can India do what Russia did in Ukraine? -Gen. Tariq

[Meengla]

The General's assertions are correct. The military disparity between Pakistan and India is not as wide as between Ukraine and Russia, and Pakistan is more evenly matched with India on the IB (India has to commit resources elsewhere too). Conventionally, Pakistan has shorter and more sustainable supply lines, a battle hardened army, an evenly matched air force and generally sharper 'Tip of the Spear' military technology.

I don't think India would be able to do a Russia in Pakistan even just in conventional terms. They would not be able to ground the Pakistani airforce or establish air superiority, and because of India's size, as we saw in the early 2000s, they are slow to mobilise which gives Pakistan a headstart and the opportunity for a preemptive first strike (in line with our doctrine).

In terms of China, no country is going to fight another's wars. War is ultimately a destructive force and something China knows keenly (hence its approach being pushing and prodding instead of open conflict). Pakistan didn't go to war over Afghanistan in 2001 even though we were close allies, and we have stayed out of Yemen as well. What Pakistan will benefit from China though is non-kinetic support, similar to the support NATO is giving to Ukraine at the moment in the form of signit intel and supplies. Pakistan's military integration with China makes it easier for China to resupply us, especially in the air. I think the furthest China would go would be in terms of assisting us in cyber war against the Indians. As Gwadar develops as well, I think Pakistan can rely on China keeping Pakistan's sea lanes open, something which Pakistan has struggled with in past wars - Indian attempts to close or blockade Gwadar could be seen as a casus belli for China and something they will likely want to stay away from.

Essentially, Pakistan would not have the naval and supply side issues it has had in previous wars, and would be (we hope) be able to rely on superiority in the cyber dimension. What extent that superiority is in cyber we don't know - the Indians may get better at it with Western help, and the Chinese may want to limit the extent of their assistance in that domain to prevent dragging themselves into the conflict as a direct party. But I would say something similar to February 27th 2019 would be on the cards.

And also - can we please put a lid on the IEA hero worship. They are great at guerilla warfare but things only picked up for them from 2008 when Pakistan started increasing its support and they relied on safe havens in FATA. They cannot fight a conventional war. This was a mistake Hamid Gul made in Jalalabad in 1989 and a mistake the IEA made in Chaman where they were rebuffed across the border with 9-13 casualties. The Indian Army isn't the ANA and the IEA aren't some superheroes. Pakistan's army jawans are far more capable than IEA footsoldiers and by placing the latter on a pedestal we are doing our brave men a disservice.

Sums up well.
I believe China will provide significant support--material support and intelligence sharing. The recent clashes between India and China have made the Chinese support to Pakistan much more likely unlike in the past where the Chinese would basically say something like 'you all should get along'. Also you will find a lot of talk on the internet about China's concerns about vulnerability of the sea routes and the need to have alternate access for resources via land--and that's where Pakistan, though not as important as the 'Stans and Russia is--but is still significant for China.
I tend to agree with others here that nukes will not get involved but the level of belligerence on both sides is so strong that who knows?? Otherwise, conventionally Pakistan is more than enough especially in a defensive war. Ukraine-Russia problems are barely a decade old, so not enough time for Ukraine to prepare for Russia. Pakistan India issues are over 7 decades old! Pakistan has been laser focused on India; there was never room for complacency.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course you can't because it's probably not true. Like all indians, you are prone to disinformation, manipulation and severe propaganda. There is a reason why the indian media is the BIGGEST FAKE NEWS factory in the world. You just confirmed it.

PS I'm looking for facts and evidence. Not yours or anyone else's opinions.

LOL.

These are established authorities for the period. You can't live through those events, so you need to read about them in books. One of the books is actually the one written by the PA officer who led the raiders. Another is by the British Major who led the mutiny against the state, and got decorated for his treachery. NONE of them are Indian media, not one.

You really need to get yourself an education.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

LOL.

These are established authorities for the period. You can't live through those events, so you need to read about them in books. One of the books is actually the one written by the PA officer who led the raiders. Another is by the British Major who led the mutiny against the state, and got decorated for his treachery. NONE of them are Indian media, not one.

You really need to get yourself an education.

Which established facts? Which PA officer? Which British Major? Again, IF you are not lying and making it all up then post the links to the evidence here. All you are doing is showing that you havn't got a clue what you are talking about. Are you implying that we should believe you because you said so? That is extremely childish and juvenile...............

 

[.King.]

Which established facts? Which PA officer? Which British Major? Again, IF you are not lying and making it all up then post the links to the evidence here. All you are doing is showing that you havn't got a clue what you are talking about. Are you implying that we should believe you because you said so? That is extremely childish and juvenile...............

Cope

Source for pakistani mujahid murdering innocent kashmiris in 1947- Iqbal, Khuram, The Making of Pakistani Human Bombs

Source for treason- Brown, William (2014). Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India.

Name of officer-Major W. A. Brown

His confession that it amounted to treason-Victoria Schofield, Kashmir in Conflict: India, Pakistan and the Unending War, I.B.Tauris, 2003

What other sources you need? Will be happy to provide you with them.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Cope

Source for pakistani mujahid murdering innocent kashmiris in 1947- Iqbal, Khuram, The Making of Pakistani Human Bombs

Source for treason- Brown, William (2014). Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India.

Name of officer-Major W. A. Brown

His confession that it amounted to treason-Victoria Schofield, Kashmir in Conflict: India, Pakistan and the Unending War, I.B.Tauris, 2003

What other sources you need? Will be happy to provide you with them.

Provide a link to the source that confirms the above. You have given references WITHOUT citations and confirmations of those citations. Also, there NEEDS to be INDEPENDENT, CREDIBLE, GENUINE and IRREFUTABLE evidence that confirms ANY claims in the citations stated. Without all the above, the claims will remain just that. Just claims.

 

[.King.]

Provide a link to the source that confirms the above. You have given references WITHOUT citations and confirmations of those citations. Also, there NEEDS to be INDEPENDENT, CREDIBLE, GENUINE and IRREFUTABLE evidence that confirms ANY claims in the citations stated. Without all the above, the claims will remain just that. Just claims.

Dude not gonna comb these books for the lines, do your own homework. You are old enough to feed yourself, others cant babysit you beyond a point.

State your counter publications if any, else you are like the flat earthers singing "earth is flat because I see it as flat, not a ball".

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Dude not gonna comb these books for the lines, do your own homework. You are old enough to feed yourself, others cant babysit you beyond a point.

State your counter publications if any, else you are like the flat earthers singing "earth is flat because I see it as flat, not a ball".

So in other words you are expecting others to believe in things that you cannot prove yourselves just because you and your kind stay so?.............You have just proven why the indian media is the BIGGEST FAKE NEWS factory in the world............:

EU NGO report uncovers Indian disinformation campaign

EU DisinfoLab’s report a ‘deep dive into a 15-year operation targeting the EU and UN to serve Indian interests’.

www.aljazeera.com

Pro-Indian 'fake websites targeted decision makers in Europe'

Fake sites and groups lobbying for India influenced decision makers in Europe, researchers say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[baqai]

No they cannot do it, they have "enemies" on two front, I wouldn't count China to come directly for our help but i will never rule out China taking advantage of the situation and opening another front for India and get more land, it would be a catch 22 situation for India. However I don't rule out sheer stupidity and machoism of Indian leadership to start such adventures.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course you can't because it's probably not true. Like all indians, you are prone to disinformation, manipulation and severe propaganda. There is a reason why the indian media is the BIGGEST FAKE NEWS factory in the world. You just confirmed it.

PS I'm looking for facts and evidence. Not yours or anyone else's opinions.

LOL.

These are established authorities for the period. You can't live through those events, so you need to read about them in books. One of the books is actually the one written by the PA officer who led the raiders. Another is by the British Major who led the mutiny against the state, and got decorated for his treachery. NONE of them are Indian media, not one.

You really need to get yourself an education.

Which established facts? Which PA officer? Which British Major? Again, IF you are not lying and making it all up then post the links to the evidence here. All you are doing is showing that you havn't got a clue what you are talking about. Are you implying that we should believe you because you said so? That is extremely childish and juvenile...............

It's up there, right there, in my original post. I repeat, for your faltering memory to catch up.

1. Established facts within the authoritative books quoted.
2. Major General Akbar Khan, DSO, British Indian Army, then Pakistan Army.
3. Major William Alexander Brown, OBE, Sitara-i-Imtiaz

If you want to know if I know anything about these or about Kashmir, ask @M. Sarmad . We don't agree, but he is the most knowledgeable about this matter.

 

[luciferdd]

No they cannot do it, they have "enemies" on two front, I wouldn't count China to come directly for our help but i will never rule out China taking advantage of the situation and opening another front for India and get more land, it would be a catch 22 situation for India. However I don't rule out sheer stupidity and machoism of Indian leadership to start such adventures.

No,China will never accept India's annexation of Pakistan.It's not only about the friendship but also strategic red line,just like we sended troops to kick the US army out of North Korea in 1950.
And in fact Indians know that too，so it's hardly to have a totally war between India and Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Provide a link to the source that confirms the above. You have given references WITHOUT citations and confirmations of those citations. Also, there NEEDS to be INDEPENDENT, CREDIBLE, GENUINE and IRREFUTABLE evidence that confirms ANY claims in the citations stated. Without all the above, the claims will remain just that. Just claims.

Sadly, you have to read. We still don't have knowledge injections!

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

LOL.

These are established authorities for the period. You can't live through those events, so you need to read about them in books. One of the books is actually the one written by the PA officer who led the raiders. Another is by the British Major who led the mutiny against the state, and got decorated for his treachery. NONE of them are Indian media, not one.

You really need to get yourself an education.

It's up there, right there, in my original post. I repeat, for your faltering memory to catch up.

1. Established facts within the authoritative books quoted.
2. Major General Akbar Khan, DSO, British Indian Army, then Pakistan Army.
3. Major William Alexander Brown, OBE, Sitara-i-Imtiaz

If you want to know if I know anything about these or about Kashmir, ask @M. Sarmad . We don't agree, but he is the most knowledgeable about this matter.

Again, you are just blowing hot air. You are claiming that they are "established facts" yet you have provided 0 evidence for those "established facts" let alone cross-referencing and source authentication.............................................you REALLY have no clue what you are talking about...............................................................................Listen kid, take a break..................

Sadly, you have to read. We still don't have knowledge injections!

Read something you have no evidence to prove?...................................Listen kid, you need to take a break or at least try to understand what you are talking about............................

 

[Joe Shearer]

Again, you are just blowing hot air. You are claiming that they are "established facts" yet you have provided 0 evidence for those "established facts" let alone cross-referencing and source authentication.............................................you REALLY have no clue what you are talking about...............................................................................Listen kid, take a break..................








Read something you have no evidence to prove?...................................Listen kid, you need to take a break or at least try to understand what you are talking about............................

Prove what?

The evidence is inside the books.

I am sorry but you are coming out as really dense.

And oh, by the way, I'm your grandfather's age.

Dude not gonna comb these books for the lines, do your own homework. You are old enough to feed yourself, others cant babysit you beyond a point.

State your counter publications if any, else you are like the flat earthers singing "earth is flat because I see it as flat, not a ball".

He's really comical.

Obviously very sparsely educated.

Cope

Source for pakistani mujahid murdering innocent kashmiris in 1947- Iqbal, Khuram, The Making of Pakistani Human Bombs

Source for treason- Brown, William (2014). Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India.

Name of officer-Major W. A. Brown

His confession that it amounted to treason-Victoria Schofield, Kashmir in Conflict: India, Pakistan and the Unending War, I.B.Tauris, 2003

What other sources you need? Will be happy to provide you with them.

Let me take him literally.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Source for pakistani mujahid murdering innocent kashmiris in 1947- Iqbal, Khuram, The Making of Pakistani Human Bombs

Source for treason- Brown, William (2014). Gilgit Rebelion: The Major Who Mutinied Over Partition of India.

Name of officer-Major W. A. Brown

Let's discuss your sources one by one

Khurram Iqbal's 2015 book on what happened back in 1947 is not a 'primary' source. Could you please post the exact quote from his book with reference to original source?

Again, you are just blowing hot air. You are claiming that they are "established facts" yet you have provided 0 evidence for those "established facts" let alone cross-referencing and source authentication.............................................you REALLY have no clue what you are talking about...............................................................................Listen kid, take a break..................








Read something you have no evidence to prove?...................................Listen kid, you need to take a break or at least try to understand what you are talking about............................

You are being unfair to Joe, bro.. We may disagree with him on many things but he, unlike other Indian posters here, is a very knowledgeable and well read member

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Prove what?

The evidence is inside the books.

I am sorry but you are coming out as really dense.

And oh, by the way, I'm your grandfather's age.


He's really comical.

Obviously very sparsely educated.


Let me take him literally.

The books aside, do you have ACTUAL CREDIBLE & GENUINE evidence that the indian army captured 45% of Kashmir from Pakistan in 1947? Secondary sources, opinions and conjectures are not facts. No point of squirming if you don't. Just provide the evidence to your so called "established facts".

Let's discuss your sources one by one

Khurram Iqbal's 2015 book on what happened back in 1947 is not a 'primary' source. Could you please post the exact quote from his book with reference to original source?



You are being unfair to Joe, bro.. We may disagree with him on many things but he, unlike other Indian posters here, is a very knowledgeable and well read member

Is he really? He makes a lot of claims without any evidence like all other indians but he is probably not as foul-mouthed as the rest of his kind. Is he knowledgeable? Not really. Does he have basic reasoning skills? Yes, somewhat.