Can India do what Russia did in Ukraine? -Gen. Tariq

[Passionaire]

India will loose out to Pakistan, just like Russia is loosing out to Ukraine

 

[Indian Libertarian]

What the Ukraine war has shown is that the defending nation has significant morale advantages. India should put more money into MANPADS and ATGMs. No point in making an offensive.

 

[.King.]

No,China will never accept India's annexation of Pakistan.It's not only about the friendship but also strategic red line,just like we sended troops to kick the US army out of North Korea in 1950.
And in fact Indians know that too，so it's hardly to have a totally war between India and Pakistan.

India doesnt actually want an occupation of whole pak (a few "akhand bharat" memes notwithstanding), just Pakistan occupied Kashmir

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

No,China will never accept India's annexation of Pakistan.It's not only about the friendship but also strategic red line,just like we sended troops to kick the US army out of North Korea in 1950.
And in fact Indians know that too，so it's hardly to have a totally war between India and Pakistan.

The point is, india can NEVER annex Pakistan. It is impossible for them to do so. That window of opportunity is long gone now.

 

[.King.]

The books aside, do you have ACTUAL CREDIBLE & GENUINE evidence that the indian army captured 45% of Kashmir from Pakistan in 1947? Secondary sources, opinions and conjectures are not facts. No point of squirming if you don't. Just provide the evidence to your so called "established facts".

No, not 45%. About two thirds. (over 60%).

At that time, India had aksai chin. LOC hasnt changed much since after 47 war.You can do the math yourself.

The point is, india can NEVER annex Pakistan. It is impossible for them to do so. That window of opportunity is long gone now.

India doesnt actually want an occupation of whole pak (a few "akhand bharat" memes notwithstanding), just Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

No, not 45%. About two thirds. (over 60%).

At that time, India had aksai chin. LOC hasnt changed much since after 47 war.You can do the math yourself.

Any evidence to back up those above claims? If you are not making it up then remember to post the links here.

PS india occupies 45% of Kashmir. Not 60% as you are claiming............:

Majority in Kashmir Valley want independence: poll

Nearly 90 percent of people living in Indian Kashmir's summer capital want their troubled and divided state to become an independent country, according to a poll in an Indian newspaper on Monday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. THE DATES:
   On 26th October 1947, Maharaja Hari Singh finally made an accession - to India. Ostensibly, he was compelled to accede to India in order to receive Indian military assistance to defend J&K from an invasion by Muslim Pukhtoon tribesmen from Pakistan that began on 22 October 1947. However, by then, J&K was already physically divided by internal fighting, chiefly in Jammu Province, to such an extent that it was actually undeliverable in its entirety to India (or, indeed, to Pakistan, had Hari Singh acceded to it).
   
   Christopher Snedden
   Page 12, Chapter 1, Kashmir: the Unwritten History
   C. Hurst & Co. (Publishers Ltd.) 2012
   ISBN: 978-93-5029-897-8
2. THE SETTING UP OF AZAD KASHMIR BEFORE ACCESSION:
   The fact that J&K Muslims were not united allowed him to consider accession to India. We can determine the predilections of some J&K Muslims by their actions before and after Hari Singh's accession to India on 26 October 1947. Many Muslims in the jagir of Poonch and Mirpur district, both of which were located in western Jammu Province, were clearly anti- Maharaja and pro-Pakistan. These Muslims shared close geographical, historical, economic and cultural links with areas of western (Pakistani) Punjab and NWFP. Led by some pro-Pakistan Muslim Conference politicians, they engaged in some significant actions in September-October 1947 to ensure that J&K joined Pakistan. These actions included instigating an anti-Maharaja uprising in Poonch and starting the Azad (Free) Kashmir movement.
   Page 16, Ibid.
3. THE MUTINY IN GILGIT:
   Similarly, early in November, Gilgit Muslims in J&K's Frontier Districts Province revolted, imprisoned the Maharaja's governor, who had recently arrived, and opted to join Pakistan.
   Page 16. Ibid.
4. ARMING FOR SEPARATION:
   After Muslims in western Jammu rearmed in August, they initially fought the Maharaja's forces locally until some leading Poonchis organised them into an 'army'. Poonchis had begun preparing to retaliate after the ruler's brutal suppression of their 'no tax' campaign. They started to rearm themselves in August, chiefly by purchasing weapons from NWFP arms bazaars. Thereafter, 'some sectors were organised for fighting the Dogras', but mostly the anti-maharaja struggle 'consisted of the uncoordinated efforts of each village, with its own band of guerrillas, taking care of the immediate military requirements.'
   These small, distant and often disparate 'village bands' were frequently commanded by all-powerful, self-promoting local leaders who, in some cases, promoted themselves up to the rank of field-marshal. In early September Sardar Ibrahim and others began to form a unified command post in Murree to direct these various irregular people's forces. This nearby hill station was strategically, and safely, located in Pakistani Punjab on the main Rawalpindi-Srinagar road, part of which bordered Poonch. Ibrahim and his organisers received help from a number of sources including sympathetic Muslim soldiers in the J&K Army , ex-Indian National Army officers; ex-Indian Army officers; and, as the Maharaja had long suspected, members of Pakistan's army and its bureaucracy and other Pakistani volunteers. It is uncertain if the Pakistanis' assistance was sanctioned at senior levels. Once fully organised, this motivated military force would pose the Maharaja, then India, significant problems.
   Page 44, Ibid.
5. THE SITUATION IN GILGIT:
   Initially confined to Jammu Province, the Azad Army's area of operation expanded into Kashmir Province. The Frontier Districts Province was omitted because 'the Gilgit organisation was separate', with the Gilgit Scouts already including pro-Pakistan dissidents. Following their uprising, Pakistan sent a 'Political Agent' to the Gilgit area on 16 November 1947.
   Page 45, Ibid.
6. GENERAL TARIK APPEARS
   After about three months, the Azad Army was united under the leadership of 'General Tarik'.....Tarik subsequently was identified as Col. Akbar Khan, a Pakistan Army regular determined to deliver J&K to Pakistan
   Page 45, Ibid.
7. THE PUKHTOONS ENTER THE BATTLE
   The Azad Army's success was significant: when Pukhtoon tribesmen entered Kashmir Province on 22 October 1947, most of western Jammu Province had already been 'liberated' from the Maharaja's forces. Two days after the Pukhtoon incasion - as India correctly called it - and possibly prompted by it, some anti-Maharaja elements in Poonch and Mirpur managed to form a government in the area outside the Maharaja's (...) control. On 24 October 1947, they formed the Provisional Azad Government. This followed an unsuccessful attempt to form a similar body earlier that month (...). This 'government' came into being two days before Maharaja Hari Singh's accession to India on 26 October 1947.
   Page 45, Ibid.
   
   

I hope this will whet your appetite to read. Try it some time; it is less painful than it might seem to one unused to it!

Any evidence to back up those above claims? If you are not making it up then remember to post the links here.

PS india occupies 45% of Kashmir. Not 60% as you are claiming............:

Majority in Kashmir Valley want independence: poll

Nearly 90 percent of people living in Indian Kashmir's summer capital want their troubled and divided state to become an independent country, according to a poll in an Indian newspaper on Monday.

www.reuters.com

What evidence are you expecting? A cadastral survey?

By the way, your own reference is to a news magazine.

Do you have any REAL, FACTUAL CREDIBLE EVIDENCE to back your claim?

 

[GumNaam]

My sincere advice: please get under the bed and stay there. @Flash_Ninja is likely to assault you.


Their pajama strings?

If you are talking about what we have to lose, it might be inhibitions.

if you don't have anything of substance to share them remain silent lest you become one of those poor pajeets that have been victimized by my bitchslaps on their brown behind much like your @Flash_Ninja .

 

[Joe Shearer]

The books aside, do you have ACTUAL CREDIBLE & GENUINE evidence that the indian army captured 45% of Kashmir from Pakistan in 1947? Secondary sources, opinions and conjectures are not facts. No point of squirming if you don't. Just provide the evidence to your so called "established facts".

What, in YOUR opinion, is a PRIMARY source? Do you even know what these mean?

Is he really? He makes a lot of claims without any evidence like all other indians but he is probably not as foul-mouthed as the rest of his kind. Is he knowledgeable? Not really. Does he have basic reasoning skills? Yes, somewhat.

Every claim has been backed by documentary references. Unless you expect to be taken on a walking tour of the entire state, while you measure every square mile (you are familiar with the use of surveying instruments, I hope!), what else do you want?

I am genuinely curious to know, because I think you don't yourself have a clue.

if you don't have anything of substance to share them remain silent lest you become one of those poor pajeets that have been victimized by my bitchslaps on their brown behind much like your @Flash_Ninja .

So THAT'S what you do with your free time - bitch slaps on brown behinds!

Oh you naughty boy!

Or have you come out?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What, in YOUR opinion, is a PRIMARY source? Do you even know what these mean?

Every claim has been backed by documentary references. Unless you expect to be taken on a walking tour of the entire state, while you measure every square mile (you are familiar with the use of surveying instruments, I hope!), what else do you want?

I am genuinely curious to know, because I think you don't yourself have a clue.


So THAT'S what you do with your free time - bitch slaps on brown behinds!

Oh you naughty boy!

Or have you come out?

For a start could you post AT LEAST one link that proves ANY of your claims?..........

 

[Reichsmarschall]

No. Upgrade yourself to 2022.

You will be surprised how closely India's Infosys, TCS work with their Pakistani Counterparts.

For an Indian :

Good : Roti, Kapda , Makkan aur Bandwidth (
Bad : Poverty, Terrorism and Corruption

And, get your facts corrected :

If Muslims were Bad, Kalam would not have been our President, ( he is the most loved man ever. A teacher, a Scientist a Patriot. )
A Muslim would not be our Spy Chief
A Muslim would not be one of the Richest in India ( Premji )

Plus,

This is what an Indian Muslim Thinks : ( Remember, This man, Publicly/Openly/Regulaly > Badmouths Modi, BJP and RSS ) :

You must, refer and Hear this Each time you DARE TO SPEAK about an Indian Muslim .
This was Spoken sitting in Pakistan.

Either you don't live in India or you're purposely feigning to be ignorant. But thankfully due to ubiquitousity of social media you can no longer fool the world.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1489914584119062530

Hostility towards Pakistan quickest route to national unity in India, says Obama

In his new book, the former US president describes Manmohan Singh as “a gentle, soft-spoken economist”.

www.dawn.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/n3vxoj

As for the token house negroes you guys keeps harping about for everyone everyone single one of them there are million other Muslims who are systemically being marginalized.
This was happening in India just a few days ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479391244983980032

 

[fitpOsitive]

enthusiasts are watching the Russo-Ukraine Conflict with interest and asking the question that would India be able to execute such a maneuver against Pakistan. Well, India is not Russia and Pakistan is not Ukraine, writes Gen Tariq Khan, who retired as head of Pakistan’s Central Command


Russia has invaded Ukraine as was expected. It was a spectacular display of military capability in the face of a total military imbalance. A full spectrum application of the military instrument by land, air and sea as well as ground and air coordinated operations. In shaping the battlefield environment, the Russians targeted the Ukrainian air defence and destroyed most of the Ukrainian air force on the ground. Then the Russians engaged the Ukrainians along the border regions by a multi-directional maneuver while airborne assets simultaneously engaged the middle spaces and the depths i.e. Russian gunships and air force engaged middle-based Ukrainian deployments while airborne divisions landed in-depth capturing airports and communication centers.

Every dimension of Ukrainian military resistance was engaged piecemeal through coordinated operations. This denied any synergy or cohesion for any meaningful Ukrainian resistance and collapse is now imminent. On the second day of the invasion, Russia can establish an air-land bridge, encircle Kyiv, liberate the Donbas region and possibly set into motion the series of actions to put up a Russian Friendly Government. It is unlikely that Russia would want to occupy Ukraine but would instead prefer it to be a buffer state between itself and NATO forces; as such it is expected that Russia has achieved its objectives: i.e. liberation of Donbas and installing a friendly government, would execute a phased withdrawal.

Ukraine’s predicament is mainly a consequence of its lack of capacity​

It is the only country to give up its nuclear weapons on a vague guarantee by the US and Europe that they would protect it against any aggression. The promise was never kept and Ukraine was left on its own. Also, the disputed question of the Minsk Agreement is being interpreted differently by every side to serve their own arguments. However, the fact remains, that it was never fully implemented despite many years have passed by. Lastly, NATO’s continual attempts at wooing Ukraine to join NATO was a direct threat to Russia and had Ukraine joined NATO at any stage, NATO forces would be sharing a border direct with Russia which was totally unacceptable to Russia.

Some enthusiasts are watching the Russo-Ukraine Conflict with interest and asking the question that would India be able to execute such a maneuver against Pakistan. Well, India is not Russia and Pakistan is not Ukraine. The military parity between Pakistan and India allows Pakistan a credible conventional defence of its own territories. The conclusion and effect of the so-called Indian calculated surgical intrusion in February 2019 is a good indicator as to how Pakistan can handle the Indians.

Yet the most pertinent point in any such argument is that Pakistan never gave up its nuclear capability and in fact, if there is any lesson in the Russo-Ukraine Conflict, it’s that Pakistan must never give up this capability. Yet, the military capability of both countries does not give any clear advantage to India to invade Pakistan and whatever minimum deterrence is in place for Pakistan, is more than sufficient to deny Indian adventurism.

Read more: Biden refuses to send US troops to fight in Ukraine

How the world will be affected by the Russo-Ukraine Conflict?​

The possible consequences of the Russo-Ukraine Conflict are global recession and collapse in oil, gas and wheat prices. Europe will suffer gas shortages, industrial closures and unemployment. Russia may experience a severe economic fallout affecting its banking, reserves and business. What’s important is that Pakistan will feel the heat with wheat shortages, high fuel and energy prices that will go way higher than what they are. Economic activity will slow down and political unrest may remain on the rise. Afghanistan will assert itself for some time by pacifying its people by embarrassing Pakistan along the Durand Line on every opportunity. Baluchistan separatist movement will accelerate because of TTP and Indian support. All these matters can be contained by a proper plan and way forward and it is hoped that the Government is thinking along these lines.

Pakistan has repeatedly said it does not want to belong to any block but is there a need to say such a thing and define a position? It is recommended that Pakistan must not offer any rhetoric or wisdom, especially if it cannot sustain its commitments. In the first place, the world is indifferent to what we have to say and in the second place, our credibility is on the line as always. It’s best to remain quiet and only contribute to any meaningful dialogue if and when invited to one. Pakistan must resolve its own political crisis one way or the other. Every matter is politicized and not dealt with from a national point of view but more from hurting the opposing party.

Read more: Middle Eastern states walk a tightrope that Ukraine spins ever tighter

The moment in history and the current global upheaval points to a unified approach based on national interests. Vague ideological references and historical examples will not do. The government needs to put together an All Parties Conference and search for a common approach to what seems to be a very difficult time staring us in the face. Party and personal differences must be put aside; our priorities must focus on the economy with emphasis on gas and energy, then on security on the Eastern, Western and Southern Borders. Our intelligence agencies must be able to offer predictive analysis into the future and develop KPIs leading to major conclusions.

Having validated these conclusions, a course of action must be mounted in a timely and cost-effective manner to contain or mitigate the effects of hostile activity. The need of the hour is central authority and a decentralized execution down to the tehsil level with a coordinated civil-military oversight. This is possible by establishing fusion cells that have plug-ins related to law and order, traffic, weather, hospitals and banking including any other event, etc.

The plug-in involves medical units, police, intelligence, civil administration and the Army. Local bodies must be empowered as soon as possible and allowed to exercise their popular mandate. Development funds must be made available to them on the basis of a staggered system based on progress. External audits systems need to be put into place immediately. Our systems must be set up to support the country and its people. Pakistan must gear up to weather the storm that is on the horizon and it does not look too good at the moment.

Can India do what Russia did in Ukraine? -Gen. Tariq Khan

Russia has invaded Ukraine as was expected. It was a spectacular display of military capability in the face of a total military imbalance.

www.globalvillagespace.com

India definitely can do it, because even roasted India is still India.
BTW, there are no parallels in Pakistan and Ukraine.

 

[Joe Shearer]

For a start could you post AT LEAST one link that proves ANY of your claims?..........

What kind of link? Give me an example. So far you managed one, Reuters. I managed three academic references and quoted extensively from one of them.

This confirms my suspicion that you have no idea of what a reference is.

You know, of course, that my last job was as a professor teaching students, of very average quality. I didn't realise that I would some day meet even more help-worthy people.

For a start could you post AT LEAST one link that proves ANY of your claims?..........

No links.

Once I realised your level of comprehension, I've posted the entire extract.

 

[.King.]

PS india occupies 45% of Kashmir. Not 60% as you are claiming............:

Im starting to think you are a genuine troll account.

India, in 48, had liberated close to 70% of the territory . In 62, china invaded by surprise and took 25% of it. That leaves the number you love so much, 45%. Now happy?

You could have read my previous comment, was entirely sufficient.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Im starting to think you are a genuine troll account.

India, in 48, had liberated close to 70% of the territory . In 62, china invaded by surprise and took 25% of it. That leaves the number you love so much, 45%. Now happy?

You could have read my previous comment, was entirely sufficient.

I'm actually curious to know what our genius means when he asks for evidence. My suspicion is that he has done a couple of O levels and is a little confused about academic work beyond that.