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Can Gripen E and LCA-Tejas Co-exist in Indian Air force ??

If the doctrine of Indian defence could have stated that

  • By year 2040 we require
    • 60 squadron in IAF
    • 20 sqd in IN
  • Then assuming light category to be 33% IAF and 25% in IN, we get
    • 20 squadrons IAF
    • 5 squadrons IN
  • In a rough estimate 20x20 = 400 and 5x15 =75 or total 475 jets for light category.
If IInstead of eextrapolation, assume a downsize view of 45 sqds in IAF and 10 squads in IN by say 2025-27 then light category is
  • 15 squads in IAF or 15x20 = 300 jets
  • 2.5 squads for IN or 2.5x15 = 38 jets (close to 40)
Now when you get such clarity then its clear that in a decade we need 340 odd jets of light category with almost 34 jets a year

This is where if LCA production becomes vital
  • If LCA prod is 16 jets a year balance becomes 18 jets which both F16 and Gripen E wishes to share at 10 jets a year minimum or single maker at 18 jets a year
  • If LCA production is 24 jets a year the balance becomes only one suitor either Gripen or F16 at 10 jets a year.
Logic says better try and hike LCA to minimum 16+8 + a new line of 16 making it 40 jets a year production rate using ppl whom we involve in MII.

IInpresent case when LCA prod is 16 per year any foreign maker gets a bigger pie and in later 24 per year the cost of investments and timeframe will drive up the perjet cost inspite of localisation. Of course capability absorption in a short time is a big question mark for our MIC.

I sincerely feel it's time to officially give one production line to L&T for LCA and make HAL and L&T push up the production rate to 24+16 format and take forward the LCA.

For others we can discuss in separate thread ( FGFA, Rafale,AMCA etc)
Excellent analysis mate. Your posts are always very informative to read.
But dont you think if LCA fails to meet the demand it will be viable to induct gripen then the f-16 given that the later is already the frontline fighter of the PAF and is a 80's fighter so less further development potential then the gripen. Offcourse if we keep aside the favours that comes with startigic involvement with the USA
 
If gripen has to make inrows they have to stop competing against Teja best scenario may be to let go Rafales all together and start assembly line for Gripen to 126 has Med tier platform
 
Swedish Saab Aerospace is making all out efforts to secure orders for 90 fighter jets which India is planning to acquire to fill the void left behind after India decided to downsize its initial plans to purchase 126 Dassault Rafale fighter jets from France to 36 and decided to acquire remainder of the jets under separate Government 2 Government deal .

LCA-Tejas lobby in India fears that India going for single engine, a light class fighter like Gripen E will certainly kill indigenously developed homegrown LCA-Tejas program and will cap further development of LCA Mark-II .

Chairman of Saab India, Lars-Olof Lindgren in a recent interview to India media tried to calm fears about Gripen killing LCA-Tejas and assured that both Gripen and LCA-Tejas can co-exist and can benefit by using the same pool of resources and benefit from using common equipment thus ensuring higher availability and reduced operational cost to the user . But the question still remains !! can Gripen and LCA-Tejas really co-exist ?

An Accurate answer to this question could have actually come from Indian Air force its self , since they have already placed orders for 100 Tejas MK-1A and MK-1 aircraft but the void left by retiring Mig-21s and Mig-27s could mean Indian Air force might require 200 more fighter jets to replace fighter jets but officially IAF previously in public domain had said that it plans to acquire 40 Tejas MK-1 and could like to place orders for 86 Mark-II when it is ready for production, which now due to HAL’s offer to develop MK-1A plans have been changed to 20 MK-1 and 100 MK-1A.

While IAF never clearly specified how many of light fighter jets like LCA-Tejas it wants to acquire for its light class of operational fleet but Previous Defence minister A.k Antony once in floor of Parliment had said that IAF eventually will acquire 290 indigenously developed LCA-Tejas which will replace bulk of Mig-21s but current Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has made it amply clear that LCA-Tejas is only fighter jet which will be replacing Mig-21s and MMRCA void will be replaced by another fighter jet which is much more economical than Dassault Rafale fighter jets .

So the Question remains can Defence ministry and air force will be ready to buy and accommodate 250+ LCA Tejas in form of MK-1/MK-1A/MK-II and can also buy Gripen E ??
Not even worth discussing, it will NEVER happen. The GoI and IAF are behind the LCA project fully.


End of story.

in short Tejas is the future light fighter of IAF and INAF and there is a big push under MII for the same to rope in couple of international palyers and almost all of the indian players in the field
The IN has no requirement for a single engines fighter.
 
IMHO LCA Tejas makes no sense. In hindsight India should have just bought the rights to make the Mirage-2000-5 MK II

they are basically the same in performance I would even say the Mirage-2000-5 is better.
 
Exactly my thoughts. Gripen is an excellent and mature platform but LCA project as a whole is too important to drop for India and Its aviation industry.
India should give more push to LCA project. Its not just about having an indigenous fighter jet. It is about having experienced indigenous workforce.

BTW, why don't India try to locate Indian Engineers working for Boeing, Airbus etc and offer employment on its own projects?

Lastly, sorry for spelling error in the post you quoted.
 
BTW, why don't India try to locate Indian Engineers working for Boeing, Airbus etc and offer employment on its own projects?

For that to happen, they need to give up the citizenship of their adopted countries, live in India for at least 5 years before they get their Indian citizenship and then join DPSU. And they need to do this before they are 32.
 
IMHO LCA Tejas makes no sense. In hindsight India should have just bought the rights to make the Mirage-2000-5 MK II

they are basically the same in performance I would even say the Mirage-2000-5 is better.

Doesn't even have an AESA, and MICA can't compete with Python/Derby missile combo both of which will be present on Tejas Mk1A. Recent comments by IAF suggest performance is no longer their primary concern, but project management and timely procurement of the fighter.

That being said Mirage-2000 line was strongly considered, but Mig-29s were procured over them after Russia called in all their favors. Arguably one of the worst procurement decisions made in IAF history. Added another unnecessary fighter line without MII, causing the present disaster.
 
India should give more push to LCA project. Its not just about having an indigenous fighter jet. It is about having experienced indigenous workforce.

BTW, why don't India try to locate Indian Engineers working for Boeing, Airbus etc and offer employment on its own projects?

Lastly, sorry for spelling error in the post you quoted.


The private firms that are coming in the sector will do that. That'll even hire out non-Indians to the work force.
 
Doesn't even have an AESA, and MICA can't compete with Python/Derby missile combo both of which will be present on Tejas Mk1A. Recent comments by IAF suggest performance is no longer their primary concern, but project management and timely procurement of the fighter.

That being said Mirage-2000 line was strongly considered, but Mig-29s were procured over them after Russia called in all their favors. Arguably one of the worst procurement decisions made in IAF history. Added another unnecessary fighter line without MII, causing the present disaster.


not hard to put an AESA on a plane.


and MICA IR/RF are world class.
 
IMHO LCA Tejas makes no sense. In hindsight India should have just bought the rights to make the Mirage-2000-5 MK II

they are basically the same in performance I would even say the Mirage-2000-5 is better.
As a replacement to the Mig21 the LCA makes perfect sense. The LCA is not meant to be anything "super duper", it is meant to be the IAF's workhorse in the air policing/point defence role and during times of war will be the rear guard holding Indian skies whilst the "heavies" (Rafale, MKI, FGFA etc) take the fight to the enemy in their skies/soil. If the LCA makes no sense the F-16 makes no sense.


Furthermore, the experience and know how the LCA will provide is simply immeasurable. Every country has to start somewhere and India is starting with the LCA. the LCA has effectively created the entire Indian military aerospace industry single handily and it is only up and up from here. If it was easy everyone would do it.
 
BTW, why don't India try to locate Indian Engineers working for Boeing, Airbus etc and offer employment on its own projects?
The private firms that are coming in the sector will do that. That'll even hire out non-Indians to the work force.
Exactly thats the idea. More the number of companies coming in then with hiring of locals, it will increase the expertise in aviation sector. Its more like automobile sector, get more companies in and let them subcontract the less sophisticated work to local vendors. Over a period of time they will absorb basic technology and start expanding the charter .Then these local vendors can be hired by desi companies like tata's,mahendras..etc.
 
Who will fly LCA if you have Gripen? If Gripen inducted, Death sentence for LCA.

LCA MK2 was always supposed to be a new plane. SAAB would be entering into India through a JV for this new plane which would include the requirements of LCA MK2 and technologies of Gripen.
 
Not even worth discussing, it will NEVER happen. The GoI and IAF are behind the LCA project fully.


End of story.


The IN has no requirement for a single engines fighter.
then why is indian navy investing in NLCA MK1 & MK2 ?

not hard to put an AESA on a plane.


and MICA IR/RF are world class.
well LCAS MK1a with GaN based EL2052 AESA and DASH HMDS with Python5+Derby+I Derby ER combo is far far leathel than M2K and Mica combo as M2K is basically a ground attack fighter bomber and MICA is way too expensive but less in range than say I Derby ER while Python5 is the most leathel HOBS missile

LCA MK2 was always supposed to be a new plane. SAAB would be entering into India through a JV for this new plane which would include the requirements of LCA MK2 and technologies of Gripen.
so its gonna be like LCA MK1a +LCAMK2/grippen NG +rafale +MKi+PAKFA/FGFA for the Indian airforce and Mig29K+NLCA MK2 for INAF :azn:
 
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