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Can Gripen E and LCA-Tejas Co-exist in Indian Air force ??

then why is indian navy investing in NLCA MK1 & MK2 ?


well LCAS MK1a with GaN based EL2052 AESA and DASH HMDS with Python5+Derby+I Derby ER combo is far far leathel than M2K and Mica combo as M2K is basically a ground attack fighter bomber and MICA is way too expensive but less in range than say I Derby ER while Python5 is the most leathel HOBS missile


so its gonna be like LCA MK1a +LCAMK2/grippen NG +rafale +MKi+PAKFA/FGFA for the Indian airforce and Mig29K+NLCA MK2 for INAF :azn:

there is a lot of factors that will determine who wins the air to air fight not just the radar and A2A missile.


Mirage 2000-5 with RDY-3 and Mica IR/RF is no slouch either

my point is LCA Tejas has taken a lot longer to develop abd you only have 17 birds so far.


IF Indian would have chosen to go with the Mirage 2000 a proven platform and started building them back in 2005, I can only imagine how many birds you would have right now. considering you are facing a major shortfall in squadrons this is a major capability gap.
 
there is a lot of factors that will determine who wins the air to air fight not just the radar and A2A missile.


Mirage 2000-5 with RDY-3 and Mica IR/RF is no slouch either

my point is LCA Tejas has taken a lot longer to develop abd you only have 17 birds so far.


IF Indian would have chosen to go with the Mirage 2000 a proven platform and started building them back in 2005, I can only imagine how many birds you would have right now. considering you are facing a major shortfall in squadrons this is a major capability gap.
with all deu respect sir thing is no dought M2K is a great fighter and LCAMk1a even with EL2052+P5 & Derby-IderbyER combo still 30% cheaper than what IAF had paid for upgrade of M2K+with new engine and weapons pakage but booth are for diffrent rules but in an hypothetical combat LCA MK1a will win against upgraded M2K as IderbyER has 30% more range and faster than MICA + the fact LCA deu to its composite body and small RCS will see and fire its missile at M2K got it
 
with all deu respect sir thing is no dought M2K is a great fighter and LCAMk1a even with EL2052+P5 & Derby-IderbyER combo still 30% cheaper than what IAF had paid for upgrade of M2K+with new engine and weapons pakage but booth are for diffrent rules but in an hypothetical combat LCA MK1a will win against upgraded M2K as IderbyER has 30% more range and faster than MICA + the fact LCA deu to its composite body and small RCS will see and fire its missile at M2K got it


but like I said there is more to A2A combat than the range of the A2A missile


my whole point is you would have at least 100+ Mirage 2000 right now compared to the 17 LCA Tejas


you have a capability gap. let's say Pakistan and China attacked you right now!! you wouldn't have the amount of birds you need to effectively fight a two front war.


Mirage 2000-5 is just as good even better than the F-16 blk 50/52.. so it would be a good match up against Pakistan F-16s and JF-17s, and let your Su-30MKI focus on China.
 
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LCA and Gripen they both are the product of foreign parts assembly, however the biggest difference is that Sweden has the technological know-how and manufacturing capability to mend them into a potent fighter```whereas India cant, not even giving them another 10 years time and money
 
but like I said there is more to A2A combat than the range of the A2A missile


my whole point is you would have at least 100+ Mirage 2000 right now than the 17 LCA Tejas


you have a capability gap. let's say Pakistan and China attacked you right now!! you wouldn't have the amount of birds you need to effectively fight a two front war.


Mirage 2000-5 is just as good ever or better than the F-16 blk 50/52 so it would be a good match up against Pakistan F-16s and JF-17s, and let your Su-30MKI focus on China.
three things

1.M2K line is no longer running and we have only 53 of them so there is no question of M2K in IAF hitting the 100 mark while IAF has already orderred 20MK1 and 100Mk1A version of LCA to fill the gap of Mig21 & 27 (point defnce and limited strike)

2.as for comined PLAAF and PAF attck we already have upgraded Mig29 and MKI combo(rafale -PAKFA for future ) for that while Mig21/to replaced by LCA so we are capable enof to take both of them dont worry

3. see there are at least 60 Mig29+53M2K+230MKI with IAF right now with Mig21 in point defence roles

of which both Mig29s and M2Ks and some 90 MKIs for are for western theater only while 140 MKIs are fornorth eastern theater

so they are more than capble what PLAAF has right now against them as for PAF well it has only 18 Blk52s and 43+13 Blk40 and 60 JF17
 
three things

1.M2K line is no longer running and we have only 53 of them so there is no question of M2K in IAF hitting the 100 mark while IAF has already orderred 20MK1 and 100Mk1A version of LCA to fill the gap of Mig21 & 27 (point defnce and limited strike)

2.as for comined PLAAF and PAF attck we already have upgraded Mig29 and MKI combo(rafale -PAKFA for future ) for that while Mig21/to replaced by LCA so we are capable enof to take both of them dont worry

3. see there are at least 60 Mig29+53M2K+230MKI with IAF right now with Mig21 in point defence roles

of which both Mig29s and M2Ks and some 90 MKIs for are for western theater only while 140 MKIs are fornorth eastern theater

so they are more than capble what PLAAF has right now against them as for PAF well it has only 18 Blk52s and 43+13 Blk40 and 60 JF17



1 I know the M2K line isn't running anymore. My point was India could have started building them in India way back in early 2000s. India has ordered a lot of Tejas but you haven't been building quick enough to fill up for retiring Mig-21s and Mig-27s


2 and 3 I am just stating what your government has said. you are facing a major shortfall in squadrons

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/5d...shes-obsolete-madeinIndia-plane-on-India.html

The IAF says it requires 45 fighter squadrons to counter a “two-front collusive threat” from Pakistan and China. But it only has 35 active fighter squadrons, parliament’s defence committee said in a report in April citing a presentation by a top air force officer.

With the drawdown of Soviet-era MiG 21 planes under way, the IAF would be down to 25 squadrons by 2022 at the current pace of acquisitions, it told the committee.


you should have never had this short fall period then,now and in the future.


and you need to take into the Su-30MKI has a horrid 60% available rate!! meaning out of 10 Su-30MKI only 6 would be ready to go to war at any given moment. further stressing the need for more birds which you don't have.
 
1 I know the M2K line isn't running anymore. My point was India could have started building them in India way back in early 2000s. India has ordered a lot of Tejas but you haven't been building quick enough to fill up for retiring Mig-21s and Mig-27s


2 and 3 I am just stating what your government has said. you are facing a major shortfall in squadrons

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/5d...shes-obsolete-madeinIndia-plane-on-India.html




you should have never had this short fall period then,now and in the future.


and you need to take into the Su-30MKI has a horrid 60% available rate!! meaning out of 10 Su-30MKI only 6 would be ready to go to war at any given moment. further stressing the need for more birds which you don't have.
1.france was on verge of sigining the deal with ABV govt in 2004 for complete tranfer of M2K assy line to india with tooling and all rigs with complete TOT but new UPA govt rejected it an floated MRCA deal as they dint find it lukerative but agreed to spend 40 milion per pop on M2K upgrade funny na :azn:

2. there sure is shortfall but not like media and foriegn vendors who want india pie make it to be

3.well its 60% avilibility but thensay in in case of PAF which has 18Blk52&42+13Blk40 Fi6 +60JF17s(73+60=133) against 60Mig29+53M2Ks+90MKI(203) is more than capble even if its 60% at any time its still 121 4.5gen fighters

each carrying more BVRs and HOBS WVR and much much better radars and EW-ECM suites and jammers than PAFs Blk52

and im not even gringing data link capability + spy sat netwrok +ground and AWACS and Aerostat radars of IAF or PAF or for that matter point defnce fighters and dedicated ground strike fighters like jaguars and bisons with mirage3-4 & F-7 with PAF ... in short IAF is well placed for any evntuality Got It :azn:
 
LCA MK2 was always supposed to be a new plane. SAAB would be entering into India through a JV for this new plane which would include the requirements of LCA MK2 and technologies of Gripen.

What Technologies -- All the Critical tech. like Landing Gears, Turbofan Engine have been developed by BAE and GE. If needed why can't ADA seeks the original OEMs for the tech. The software used for the design of the Gripen was sourced from Dassault, and MMR and various electronics from various European defence OEMs.

The only OEM that can really help ADA in LCA is the Dassault, because they have helped ADA in the Project Definations, and deeply studies the Design, and the GE for removal of Teething problem of the Air Intake Duct.

For couple of days you have been posting B.S articles posted by paid media, ignorant of the fact that to publish the news for making an assumption is India, you need to invest 10 Lakh INR to the reutor, and the whole Indian Media, copy and posting the same news with different flavor, as indicated by the RBI Governor of the India once. And for your Source who is speculating Bullshit fantasy with unknown agenda, tell him, that IAF have already rejected F-16, F-18 and Gripen for good and from the start, the IAF was in favour of the French Bird, that's why they like the Mirrage 2000 most, and are familiar with the French and the Russian birds.

Tell him, that to fulfill the void which would be created after MIG-27 requirement would be fulfilled with the Combat HAWK developed by the HAL/BAE, and in the present scenario, all Airsuperiority fighter planes like MKI and MIG 29 UPG are getting the limited Ground attack capability, and nowa days to convert, the cheaper dumb gravity bomb into LGB, several OEM is offering the kits that convert them into LGB or GPS assisted glide bomb cheaply. HAL have all the tools, fixture, and blue prints to license produce the Jaguar. The future is the IUSAV, and all the dirty, risky work would be undertaken by remote controlled UAV, therefore their is a delay with the Rafale Deal, which will include the French assistant on the AURA, with its nUERON project, and M88 would be the stop gap powerplant, before Kaveri for the AURA gets matture. The US will gets its large PIE with the C-17 and C-170 and P8i which is needed upto 24 numbers, and SAAB could get orders for its Sensors, RWR, LWR, and MAWS for the LCH and Rudra, not for the LCA because BAE/Cassidian Sensors would be used.

Tell him, no one in India, is asking for any hot core tech from GE, nor any OEM in the world shares their secrets with anyone. Tell him, that biggest hurdle in the Indian Aviation is the Indegenous Turbo fan Engine tech. which will takes some more time to mature, and Kaveri derivative engine would be the key to it.

Give him this link, which is very much close to the reality

Four years ago, when Indian aero-engineers walked into the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow, they were shocked to see Chinese engineers there. The Indians had come to flight-test Kaveri, India's first indigenous jet engine. The Chinese, too, had come on a similar mission. And, the Indian engineers were worried whether the Chinese would beat them to it.

Worry was understandable, because jet-engine technology is even more exclusive than nuclear know-how. Only a few countries in the world know how to make jet engines. The market for tens of thousands of engines that power fighter planes owned by air forces across the globe is controlled by just a handful of companies—GE and Pratt & Whitney of the United States, NPO Saturn of Russia, Rolls-Royce of the UK, Snecma of France and Eurojet of Germany. The dominance of these companies is almost complete, evident from the fact that even though Rolls-Royce admitted to have paid commission to agents in dealing with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the defence ministry could not do much because if Rolls-Royce stopped supplying engines, it would affect HAL's production of Jaguar fighter bombers.

Kaveri, which was developed at the Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), a lab under the Defence Research and Development Organisation, successfully completed the sub-sonic test in Moscow by flying a giant Ilyushin-76 aircraft. The Chinese test was a failure. Four years later, however, it seems the Kaveri story is going to have a sad end, while the Chinese are making steady progress with their project.

Back from Russia, lack of funds significantly slowed down Kaveri's progress. "We have shortage of funds to even run the five prototype engines which have been produced so far. It is difficult to procure fuel for the engines," says GTRE director C.P. Ramanarayanan. The Chinese story, on the other hand, turned out to be completely different. After their engineers returned with the failed engine, the Chinese government opened its purse-strings and invested more than $60 billion for developing its aerospace sector of which a significant portion was spent on the jet engine programme. China has "gone crazy for making aircraft," says a recent white paper prepared by renowned aerospace scientist Roddam Narasimha.

Flush with funds, the Chinese burnt the midnight jet-fuel and put their WS-10 turbofan engine on a few prototypes of their J-10 fighters, and flew them. "But they are still far from developing the engine for squadron service," says a GTRE scientist. "We can also fly Kaveri suboptimally, as the Chinese are doing, but we don't have test aircraft for that. We are waiting for just one old MiG-29 for testing."

Anyway, Narasimha's paper, prepared last year, had some effect on the Manmohan Singh government. When GTRE asked for half a million dollars in the budget, the babus returned the request, saying it was "suboptimal", and with the advice to ask for more. This gave them hope. "The Chinese haven't yet succeeded in finalising the engine for squadron service. We can still catch up, because we have already addressed the issues on making the engine supersonic. We needed only funds to test," says the scientist.

But now, a move by the Narendra Modi government to scrap all DRDO development programmes that face significant delays could end India's Kaveri dreams. DRDO's Director-General (Aero) K. Tamilmani has reportedly described it as a bold move, saying the agency has realised its old mistakes and is taking steps to address them.

GTRE scientists, who made the engine, disagree. Indeed, the Kaveri programme has taken long. The defence ministry recently told Parliament that the project was sanctioned in March 1989 at a cost of Rs382.8 crore, to be completed by December 1996. This was revised (in 2005) to December 2009. But GTRE scientists say similar engines produced by global manufacturers will cost almost three to four times. With Rs2,105 crore having been spent on the programme so far and with over two decades of experience in the field and the programme on the verge of successful completion, Ramanarayanan feels it would not be wise to scrap it. The lessons learnt will "go down the drain".

The fate of Kaveri will now be decided by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), which has sought some clarifications from GTRE. According to GTRE scientists, Kaveri now needs to cover just the last mile. According to defence ministry estimates, India would be spending a whopping Rs3.5 lakh crore for its aircraft fleet, including the fifth generation fighter aircraft and the French Rafale combat aircraft, in the next 10 to 15 years, of which the cost of the engines would be around Rs74,500 crore. Engines for the Su-30MKI fleet would require another Rs70,000 crore. "Most of the money that we are planning to spend on these engines is likely to go to foreign countries, but if we allow programmes such as Kaveri to continue and succeed, this will help us in saving at least 30 to 40 per cent of the funds," says Ramanarayanan.

Scientists deny that India had to buy GE engines to power Tejas, India's first light combat aircraft, because of the delay in Kaveri. "Nobody in the world puts an untested engine in an untested aircraft," says a scientist. "Even if Kaveri was ready by now, we would have put some other engine in Tejas. It is always like that. The first engines are always put in proven aircraft and untested aircraft are always powered with proven engines." The first 40 LCAs are being powered by GE-404 engine whereas the DRDO has placed orders for more than 200 GE-414 engines for the LCA-MKII, which are scheduled to be ready by 2017.

There are unconfirmed reports that Kaveri is being designed also to power India's top secret unmanned combat aerial vehicle. Since India has not signed the Missile Technology Control Regime, no country would supply engines for UCAVs that fly longer than 300km. "Since the UCAV would be a lighter plane, the present power of the Kaveri engine would be enough for powering it," says a DRDO scientist. The UCAV programme, being worked on by DRDO and HAL, has been sanctioned Rs7,000 crore.

Scientists working on Kaveri say they have tackled all technical issues in making the engine supersonic. "We need to test it on a fighter such as MiG-29 or a SU-30MKI." They are confident that Kaveri has hit the home stretch. It just needs an aircraft, a few more months, some more money and little more patience to secure India's entry into the exclusive fighter jet engine club.

WITH R. PRASANNAN


Beneath the wings
GE and Pratt & Whitney of the United States and Rolls-Royce of the United Kingdom are the world's leading fighter-jet engine manufacturers. Other prominent engine makers include NPO Saturn and Klimov of Russia, Snecma of France and Eurojet Turbo GmbH based in Germany, run by a consortium of Rolls-Royce, Avio (Italy), ITP (Spain) and MTU (Germany).

Some of the leading engines and the fighters they power:


GE
The F110 family:
Powers F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft of many countries
The F404 family: Used in the world's first stealth fighter, the F-117. Also powers Korean T-50s, Boeing F/A-18C/D Hornets, Saab Gripen multi-role fighters
The F414 family: Powers Boeing Super Hornets and Growlers, MKII version of the Tejas light combat aircraft, Saab's next generation Gripen aircraft


PRATT & WHITNEY
The F119 family:
Powers the US Air Force's F-22 Raptors
The F135 family: Used in the F-35 Lightning IIs, all of the US Air Force's F-15 Eagles and the majority of the world's F-16 Fighting Falcons
The F100 family: Powers various aircraft of 23 air forces around the world


ROLLS-ROYCE
RB199:
Tornado multi-role aircraft operated by the UK, Germany, Italy and Saudi Arabia
Adour: SEPECAT Jaguars, Mitsubishi T-2s and F-1s, BAE Systems Hawk
Spey: AMX strike aircraft


NFO SATURN
AL-21:
Powers Sukhoi Su-17s, Su-24s, Sukhoi T-10s and MiG-23s
AL-31: All Su-27 derivatives and China's Chengdu J-10 multi-role fighters
AL-31F: Su-35BM and PAK FA


SNECMA
M88:
Multi-role combat aircraft Rafale from Dassault Aviation
M 53: Mirage 2000-9s
Atar: Mirage F1s and 50s


EUROJET
EJ200:
Eurofighter Typhoons


KLIMOV
RD-33 Series:
MiG-35s and Mig29Ks
SMR-95 Series: Super Mirage F-1s, Super Cheetah D-2s

The Week | Jet engine lag

And show him these links to show the RPI tender of the DRDO, which shows, where we are actually heading.

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=7986

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=8284
 
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IMHO LCA Tejas makes no sense. In hindsight India should have just bought the rights to make the Mirage-2000-5 MK II

they are basically the same in performance I would even say the Mirage-2000-5 is better.
India has been making or i would say assembling aircrafts for long time now But do you think that assembling Mirage or like Migs, SU 30, India could have build a some sort of ecosystem for aviation in India. Now through this program there is not only HAL but 500 industries, 40-50 laboratories, 20 academic institutions and it is a big network. Massive improvements in infrastructure to support all these activities.
 
1 I know the M2K line isn't running anymore. My point was India could have started building them in India way back in early 2000s. India has ordered a lot of Tejas but you haven't been building quick enough to fill up for retiring Mig-21s and Mig-27s


2 and 3 I am just stating what your government has said. you are facing a major shortfall in squadrons

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/5d...shes-obsolete-madeinIndia-plane-on-India.html

Well that was the earlier plan of the IAF, aka 50 Mirrage 2000 as a fly away condition, and rest 200 license build by HAL, but when India was hit by the economical constrain, it dump that plan, and only 50 Mirrage 2000 was procured, which is now going an deep upgrade by HAL to 2000 UPG standard. Never the less Rafale is now coming so, there is no need to discuss Mirrage 2000, but I do feel, its better if India could buy 2nd hand Mirrage 2009 from the Gulf country -- not more than 2 Squadron.

you should have never had this short fall period then,now and in the future.


and you need to take into the Su-30MKI has a horrid 60% available rate!! meaning out of 10 Su-30MKI only 6 would be ready to go to war at any given moment. further stressing the need for more birds which you don't have.

This has been discussed many time in PDF, but for sake of you check this link

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/09/15/alarming-low-availability-german-air-forces/

http://www.jameshasik.com/weblog/20...fighter-or-just-the-air-forces-flying-it.html

Is something wrong with the Eurofighter, or just the air forces flying it?
The good news about the Eurofighter Typhoon is that it’s apparently a Raptor-killer. The only pilot known to have flown both aircraft, USAF General John Jumper, called the former's air-to-air capabilities a close second to those of the latter. German pilots at Red Flag have bested their American colleagues in mock battles, by keeping their smaller, more maneuverable aircraft on the stealth-fighters’ tails. And with MBDA’s multiple-salvo, fire-and-forget Brimstone missile to be integrated by 2018, the Eurofighter will gain some impressive surface-strike capabilities.

So much for the good news. The bad news is striking as well. As reported last week, the readiness rate of Typhoons in Spain’s Ejército del Aire is very low: only 6 of 39 aircraft (15%) are flyable. In Germany’s Luftwaffe, the figures are better, but still only 42 of 109 Eurofighters (39%) "are currently available for missions, training, and exercises.” For the German fleet overall, the estimated lifecycle costs have doubled since the initial estimate in 1997, from €30 to 60 billion, despite a reduction in the planned fleet from 180 to 140 fighters. Oh by the way, Eurofighters built so far have a manufacturing flaw in the rear fuselage that impugns structural integrity. As a result, according to Agence France Presse, "Berlin has decided to cut the time its Eurofighters spend in the air each year in half, from 3,000 hours to 1,500 hours."

And yet, Eurofighters are flown by the air forces of not just Spain and Germany, but Austria, Britain, Italy, and Saudi Arabia. Oman has ordered twelve. Indonesia is interested, particularly if local assembly is involved. Fairly, Saab’s cheaper Gripen would also be a strong contender, as Indonesia’s total military budget for 2015, despite a 14% increase from 2014, is still less than €6.5 billion. But Jakarta is talking to Eurofighter, perhaps in part because those impressive games against the USAF signal that any trouble from future Chinese aircraft carriers could be readily handled.

Readily handled—if the aircraft themselves were ready! For me, this prompts a question: are reports of low readiness rates endemic to the plane as designed and manufactured, or to those two underfunded air forces trying to maintain it? The RAF seems to be having few problems with its Typhoons as they routinely scramble on Russian bombers coming down from the Norwegian Sea. The RAF hasn’t announced a similar cutback in flying hours, and in any case, recent fuselage problems in F-16s (amongst other aircraft) are being remedied with retrofits.

Thus I suspect that this is a spending problem for two air forces, and a mere marketing problem for Eurofighter. But that doesn’t mean that the problem can be safely ignored. As closely as armaments are associated with the forces employing them, the companies selling them have challenging communications problems with those forces mishandle them. Best of luck to Eurofighter in getting past two customers’ unhelpful inattention to detail.

So for the starter, low availability of the MKI is linked with more bureaucratic procedure to reduce the operating cost, and the availability of the Spares. And when the decision of keeping a big Stock of the Spares, and HAL to produce the Spares in India, its unneeded to mention does.
 
What LCA?
Gripen will be inducted only if the LCA is agreed upon as a complete failure. It will essentially cancel the LCA program as we see and know today. Indian members must learn to live with this fact.

Later on you guys can chose to call whatever aircraft is inducted as Tejas.
 
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Well that was the earlier plan of the IAF, aka 50 Mirrage 2000 as a fly away condition, and rest 200 license build by HAL, but when India was hit by the economical constrain, it dump that plan, and only 50 Mirrage 2000 was procured, which is now going an deep upgrade by HAL to 2000 UPG standard. Never the less Rafale is now coming so, there is no need to discuss Mirrage 2000, but I do feel, its better if India could buy 2nd hand Mirrage 2009 from the Gulf country -- not more than 2 Squadron.



This has been discussed many time in PDF, but for sake of you check this link

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/09/15/alarming-low-availability-german-air-forces/

http://www.jameshasik.com/weblog/20...fighter-or-just-the-air-forces-flying-it.html



So for the starter, low availability of the MKI is linked with more bureaucratic procedure to reduce the operating cost, and the availability of the Spares. And when the decision of keeping a big Stock of the Spares, and HAL to produce the Spares in India, its unneeded to mention does.


that's pretty bad for the Eurofighter

but the U.S fares a lot better and considering our fleet is a lot older as well.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...readiness-data-improves-in-2015-as-fl-421499/
 
What LCA?
Gripen will be inducted only if the LCA is agreed upon as a complete failure. It will essentially cancel the LCA program as we see and know today. Indian members must learn to live with this fact.

Later on you guys can chose to call whatever aircraft is inducted as Tejas.
why and how ... care to explain

point is even if LCA is not that good as say Grippen NG why should we close the project and why you so botherred are we asking pakistan or its tax payers to fund the project :azn:

logik says you only want an enemy not to get a certain weapon when your petrified of its might am i wrong ?
 
there is no shame in killing an obsolete project that drags on and starting a new one.
there should be none!
If decades of work was not able to bear fruit, it is actually quite wise of the administration to replace it with an actually performing plane.

why and how ... care to explain

point is even if LCA is not that good as say Grippen NG why should we close the project and why you so botherred are we asking pakistan or its tax payers to fund the project :azn:

logik says you only want an enemy not to get a certain weapon when your petrified of its might am i wrong ?
Why would you think i would waste my time again on a debate with you when i am dead sure that there wont be ANYTHING coming out of it? It is not like i didn't had any past experiences.
I said what i know as true. You may argue all you want too but that wont change the fact that Gripen induction indicates the failure of LCA and in fact is a very wise move by IAF and Indian Government, if made! There was not point in getting into what would be the fourth decade of development when an option like Gripen was available. Wise move.
Plus there always will be this option of calling that plane Tejas. :)

As i said, better learn to live with this.
 
there should be none!
If decades of work was not able to bear fruit, it is actually quite wise of the administration to replace it with an actually performing plane.


Why would you think i would waste my time again on a debate with you when i am dead sure that there wont be ANYTHING coming out of it? It is not like i didn't had any past experiences.
I said what i know as true. You may argue all you want too but that wont change the fact that Gripen induction indicates the failure of LCA and in fact is a very wise move by IAF and Indian Government, if made! There was not point in getting into what would be the fourth decade of development when an option like Gripen was available. Wise move.
Plus there always will be this option of calling that plane Tejas. :)

As i said, better learn to live with this.
with all deu respect TT SIR you Sir are confusing your nations parnoia to what IAF or MOD should think but Sir it dosent works like that

harsh fact is tejas even today has 17 prototypes in 4 diffrent configurations (2single seat&2trainer daul seat version) with 4 channel all axis digital Fly by wire and more than 40% composites (extra manuverability and very low RCS) which are intigrated and tested in day and night and possibally under every type of weather and altitude for BVR , WVR , dropping LGBs and PGMs and dump bombs and intrigration of IFR and OBOGS is already done with which your nations JF-17 hopes to achive in its Blk3 version and you still dont have a trainer or a naval version

having said that process of scalling extra flab /wieght (almost 500Kgto800 Kg)deu to all those telle matterry instruments and harnesses and extra heavy landing gear + making it more sleeker for better drag handling and feul economy and an GaN based AESA and possibally an internal IRST

all that under 2.2 billion dollars for entire programme with all foriegn parts with avrage cost of a fully laden Mk1A close to 28-30milliomn dollars

so tell me now SIR why would IAF or MOD go for Grippen NG which is just marginally better but 70 million a pop in its fly away conditions weapons , maitainence and training extra:azn:

IAF has already irderred 20Mk1 and 100 MK1A so there is no chance of Grippen but even if we go for that i guess it will be more to get latest manufacturing skills and technologies which as we all know even SAAB sources from many amreican , british and european OEMs (which we can get from too and already getting)

as for all such articels on SAAB well they all are paid media news articels floated to keep chances of SAAB in indian defnce market alive ...

now whats your answer SIR :azn:
 

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