Can China break the military aircraft engine bottleneck?

[Bussard Ramjet]

Was it flying with Russian or Chinese engines
Regardless, J31 is still in develpment, is it not?
We dont owe third parties an obligation to ensure perfect quality in development stage

Handpaintedn Jingdezhen Porcelain vase

As far as I know, I was reading this thread live during Zhuhai, and the engines were Russian.

 

[Keel]

As far as I know, I was reading this thread live during Zhuhai, and the engines were Russian.

That doesnt change my opinion to the post that Ive made, Russian engines or not!

Chinese Print-Art Printing

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

As far as I know, I was reading this thread live during Zhuhai, and the engines were Russian.

There is nothing surprising that the J-31 is initially using the RD-93, consider that the WS-13 was started to develop much later than the WS-10.

The WS-10 is much more critical to us, so it doesn't matter if a mid thrust engine like the WS-13 is going to be postponed a bit.

 

[kashif memon]

Yes they can if they hack Americans again and if they can get hold of engine design. I have very high respect for Chinese hackers.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes they can if they hack Americans again and if they can get hold of engine design. I have very high respect for Chinese hackers.

Gosh, another genius comment from a 'high IQ' Indian.

If the jet engine expertise can be acquired through hacking, then everybody can become a jet engine expert.

 

[Keel]

Gosh, another genius comment from a 'high IQ' Indian.

If the jet engine expertise can be acquired through hacking, then everybody can become a jet engine expert.

Absolutely! why are we not doing a landing and roaming on Mars or buiding a 787?

 

[kashif memon]

Gosh, another genius comment from a 'high IQ' Indian.

If the jet engine expertise can be acquired through hacking, then everybody can become a jet engine expert.

Mate I am just appreciating your efforts. If you can reverse engineering anything then why not engines ?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Absolutely! why are we not doing a landing and roaming on Mars or buiding a 787?

What's wrong with these people?

It is like an elementary student who is making fun at a university student who didn't acquire a grade of A+ in its Calculus 3.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Yes they can if they hack Americans again and if they can get hold of engine design. I have very high respect for Chinese hackers.

@ChineseTiger1986 How does one give a negative rating to this guy?

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Was it flying with Russian or Chinese engines
Regardless, J31 is still in develpment, is it not?

It was flying with 2 Klimov RD-93 engines

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Mate I am just appreciating your efforts. If you can reverse engineering anything then why not engines ?

Well, the reverse engineering is not as easy as most people thought to be.

Japan also got the ambition to build their own turbofan engine, and they used to reserve engineer the technology of CFM-56, but failed badly.

That's why they are still struggling to conduct a maiden flight for their Shinshin prototype.

@ChineseTiger1986 How does one give a negative rating to this guy?

Dunno who gives a negative rating to him.

 

[Keel]

It was flying with 2 Klimov RD-93 engines

Yeah @Bussard Ramjet has rendered his comment on that
Thanks to you both

 

[shy@SJTU]

I'm having a course on aero engines, and the professor used to be the Principal Engineer of Aeromechanics at GE Aviation. I'll try to translate some of his words to answer some questions:

[Why the westerners stay ahead of the game? Because they set the bars and rules of the game.
Why the westerners set the rules? Because the rules are set by who knows & does the best.]

[Reverse engineering just doesn't work on aero engines, What you can see, measure and duplicate are "Explicit" technology, while the "Implicit" technology set the differences.]

[There's no such major of "Aero Engine" in the US engineering schools.
It's beyond engineering (Technology, Business, Operational & Geopolitics) and it's a multi-disciplinary system.
Aero engines are "The Most Demanding" and "The Least Forgiving". It sets the highest standards of the industry.]

[People are talking about the gap between Chinese and Western aero engines: 40 years? 20 years? or 5 years? Maybe they are all correct. But it's not important, the key issue is when we can catch up with them. In the era of Industry 4.0, China has a great chance to catch up with the westerners in a short time.]

I noticed that many of my classmates are interested in aero engines and want to devote themselves in this career. You may claim China cannot catch up with the West, or blame China on hacking & reverse engineering. But we will study, research, and make the changes.

 

[IND151]

Sorry, but that's not a apples to apples there....

Building an expendable or limited use rocket is easier than building a high-performance turbofan that has to see the rigors of flight change in an instant, and be reused again. It's the common element for all air-breathing engines.
China already has built numerous turbofans, the problem is the reliability. So while you might need rockets for a timed, limited use in space, you need turbofan engines in hundreds to power your fleet, now if you have a dual engine, long range aircraft like the J-11/J-15s, then you got double the engines that fail. Engine failure there would mean your war/peace is at stake. Not the same with space rockets. At most you lose a billion USD or so worth of equipment.

I know.

When I said it will take perhaps a whole decade, i meant it will take perhaps a whole decade for China to develop a mature, relaible Turbofan.

China will do it. Question is how much time it will take.

Developing a High Quality Turbofan is no joke, if China can do so, it will open many doors for China just like GSLV Mk II D 5 opened for India.

Sorry, but that's not a apples to apples there....

I am not comapring apples to oranges.

When I said this I meant developinga mature Turbofan engine will open several doors for China like success of GSLV Mk II D 5 implied India can grab healthy share in 300 Billion Dollar Commercial Satelite Lanching Market.

Not fully mature yet, but it has already made China independent in the jet engine domain.

Can India power its hundred aircraft fighters with its domestic engine?

You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Keel]

I'm having a course on aero engines, and the professor used to be the Principal Engineer of Aeromechanics at GE Aviation. I'll try to translate some of his words to answer some questions:

[Why the westerners stay ahead of the game? Because they set the bars and rules of the game.
Why the westerners set the rules? Because the rules are set by who knows & does the best.]

[Reverse engineering just doesn't work on aero engines, What you can see, measure and duplicate are "Explicit" technology, while the "Implicit" technology set the differences.]

[There's no such major of "Aero Engine" in the US engineering schools.
It's beyond engineering (Technology, Business, Operational & Geopolitics) and it's a multi-disciplinary system.
Aero engines are "The Most Demanding" and "The Least Forgiving". It sets the highest standards of the industry.]

[People are talking about the gap between Chinese and Western aero engines: 40 years? 20 years? or 5 years? Maybe they are all correct. But it's not important, the key issue is when we can catch up with them. In the era of Industry 4.0, China has a great chance to catch up with the westerners in a short time.]

I noticed that many of my classmates are interested in aero engines and want to devote themselves in this career. You may claim China cannot catch up with them, or blame China on hacking, reverse engineering, but we will study, research, and make the changes.

Welcome to the forum

Building an aircraft and its engine are very complex subjects
"Reverse engineering" is a cheap term which are frequently used to dismiss the great efforts of Chinese Engineers