Can Bangladesh be East Pakistan again?

[roadrunner]

I find your thoughts most interesting, humorous and rather bigoted, if you will.

The issue that you attribute to the Bengalis are too generalised and apparently more out of pique!

There have been posts, including links, in this very forum, to indicate the Punjabi arrogance causing heartburns amongst the other races/ communities/ ethnic groups of Pakistan and you claim that all in Pakistan are solidly together and beyond the negative traits that you attribute to the Bengalis. There is even a post in this forum wherein a boss who was a non Mohajir person, balked at the revelation that the subordinate was a Mohajir.

I don't get why you keep going on about Punjabis?! Punjabis are hardly ruling Pakistan. Punjab is the biggest province in Pakistan, and many of the rich might live in Punjab, but they come from all backgrounds. There is hardly this universal hate of Punjabis you seem to think (or wish) inside of Pakistan. They don't rule much. In fact, there's not been one Pakistani Punjabi leader of Pakistan during the existence of Pakistan.

Notwithstanding, I find the Wonder of BD rather silent on the issues raised by you. Has this aspect led you to surmise that all Bengalis are docile and insecure?

Bengalis are generally pretty docile. Bangladesh goes through periods of nationalism which is either racial, or religious based. Separation of the East and West Bengal by the British in 1905, was based on religion. Apparently the Hindus of Bengal were exploiting the Muslims of Bengal, so the Muslims of Bengal wanted curzon to partition the province. The 1947 partition was also supported for the same reason. Then in 1971 it was a division they wanted based on racial grounds. Whoever they lived with, they claimed victimized them, be it the Hindu Bengali, or the West Pakistanis. Why was this? So you see, sometimes it is racial grounds, sometimes it is religios grounds. The common factor is that they always feel they are discriminated against. This sort of victm attitude (which continues today even in all of Dhaka's war museums) is based on insecurity and nationalism. It's the hallmarks of extemely docile people. Whenever Mujib told his followers that Bangladesh would be the richest country in the world spinning golden threads of jute, if it weren't for West Pakistani exploitation, the East Pakistanis believed him. It was easy to manipulate the minds of those in East Pakistan.

I assure you that Bengalis are not so "cool" and they don't slink away. The birth of Bangladesh is a live case in point. However, those who are not Bengalis in the true sense, but by circumstances live in Bangladesh may slink away, since they are not Bengalis and instead have dubious loyalties like the Razakaar or the collaborators.

Dude. as far as fighting is concerned. Bengalis hardly joined the armed forces. Training schools had to be closed down in East Pakistan because they did not want to fight in the armed forces. There is a reason they are not considered a martial race by the British. They were not very able on the battlefield.

Such people living in Bangladesh could not care what slurs are attributed to Bengalis or Bangladesh since their heart is elsewhere. And the extraordinary part is that where their heart is do not accept them to be their own!

A lost community - people without a country (in the emotional way)!

I don't think the Bengalis accept them. Much like the people of the Chittagong Tracts are victimized by the Bangladeshis..It's Bangladesh's problem anyhow.

 

[HK-47]

Much like the people of the Chittagong Tracts are victimized by the Bangladeshis.

there are reasons;they wanted to separate we didn't want that and conflict followed.
things have improved and I hope keep on improving in the future year.

Training schools had to be closed down in East Pakistan because they did not want to fight in the armed forces. There is a reason they are not considered a martial race by the British. They were not very able on the battlefield.

I have seen this cropping up in these forums a lot,this martial race phrase.
and I don't care about being belonging to a martial race;I don't know what's so special about it.

It was easy to manipulate the minds of those in East Pakistan.

since the WP Gov was so ineffective and unjust.c'mon how good governance was present in WP also?

he common factor is that they always feel they are discriminated against.

we don't feel discriminated.we were discriminated.But I concur with you,I sometimes get tired of people bringing up the 1971 war in everything.

things have changed now,not all Bengalis from East Bengal are Bangladeshis(where 98% people are Bengalis)and neither are all Bangladeshis , Bengalis.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Roadrunner,

Read Philip Mason's "A Matter of Honour" and realise how the martial and non martial races came into being in the British Army.

The ones who were loyal to the British dictates and kowtowed to their plan to subjugate the Indians were given the sops and the dubious nomenclature of 'martial'!

As far as Punjabis, I have nothing against them. They are a great lot and I like them. However, in Pakistan, they dominate as is what I glean from the posts and from Pak media, more so it became evident and was prominent an issue in the Pak commentaries with the dam issues.

Is Mian Nawaz Sharif a Bloch? Was he not a PM and a leader? So, how come you claim there are no Punjabi leaders?

 

[roadrunner]

Roadrunner,

Read Philip Mason's "A Matter of Honour" and realise how the martial and non martial races came into being in the British Army.

The ones who were loyal to the British dictates and kowtowed to their plan to subjugate the Indians were given the sops and the dubious nomenclature of 'martial'!

The "Martial Races" were targeted for recruitment. It didn't have anything to do with loyalty to the British. It had everything to do with who the British targeted to be part of the British Indian Army.

As far as Punjabis, I have nothing against them. They are a great lot and I like them. However, in Pakistan, they dominate as is what I glean from the posts and from Pak media, more so it became evident and was prominent an issue in the Pak commentaries with the dam issues.

So, you worked out from one incident that everybody in Pak is anti Punjabi. alright! No such anti Punjabi stuff in reality.

Is Mian Nawaz Sharif a Bloch? Was he not a PM and a leader? So, how come you claim there are no Punjabi leaders?

He's Kashmiri I think. Not Punjabi.

 

[bd_wonder]

all the negative comments about bengalis and so on are ridiculous and effective means at same time of dividing muslim brethren of subcontinent in pk/bd.
that's why i said a thousand miles of hostile territory separating two muslim brothers can't work. we need to have captured north india just like muslim rulers of subcontinent did earlier, that way there'd be a long lasting alliance of muslims in subcontinent who could thrash indians at will.

northern india separating bd/pk is the problem.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Bd-wonder,

The English metaphor goes - if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride!

Indeed, if you are regretting having left Pakistan, who is stopping you from joining?

that way there'd be a long lasting alliance of muslims in subcontinent who could thrash indians at will.

Wonderful, isn't it?

Why are you not at doing so? And why have you been yourself instrumental in breaking this dream by ensuring Pakistan is broken up!

Or do you feel that the Mukti Bahini and the Bangladeshis are ridiculous people who went about ensuring that liberation that they were chasing and which caused so many deaths and other atrocities was a false dream!

Are you a Bengali? Do answer that question first.

 

[roadrunner]

Or do you feel that the Mukti Bahini and the Bangladeshis are ridiculous people who went about ensuring that liberation that they were chasing and which caused so many deaths and other atrocities was a false dream!

It was an Indian dream.

 

[EagleEyes]

Or do you feel that the Mukti Bahini and the Bangladeshis are ridiculous people who went about ensuring that liberation that they were chasing and which caused so many deaths and other atrocities was a false dream!

Bangladesh people were forced to revolt.. both by Pakistan and India. Mukti Bahini was of course ridiculous and Indian sucking one.

It was only that certain situation which lead to deaths and liberation for the little time period. India of course was the main culprit in all that situation to divide Pakistan, but Bahinis did suck for a while they could.

In the end Mukti Bahini fought for as much they could (unnecessary) by inciting violence and calling for the law enforcements to take actions against them for a limited time funded by the Indians.. which doesn't really make them heroes.. but only traitors who were sold.

I hope Bangladeshis will soon open their eyes.. as the Indian propaganda is no longer there. Yet.. history for which they are given.. is what they have to believe.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It was an Indian dream.

Musharraf thought otherwise, but I presume you want to tell us that you know more about it than Musharraf himself!

In fact, Bangladesh rejoining Pakistan is a dream of some in Pakistan.

As far that thought of India eyeing Bangladesh, it is put paid by the fact that India quit as soon as Bangladesh became independent and did not hang on like the US in Iraq, where US has strategic reasons to do so.

Therefore, the logic behind your statement does not pan out!

It is time to see reality and not chase dreams of reunion!

WebM,

The Mukti Jodhas maybe traitors in your eyes, but not so in Bangladeshi eyes!

 

[roadrunner]

Musharraf thought otherwise, but I presume you want to tell us that you know more about it than Musharraf himself!

There you go quoting Musharraf again. What did he say? You never seem t tell! I'm sure Musharaf would not deny that splitting Pakistan territory and reducing it would have been an Indian dream. At the time the theory would have been divide and conquer. I don't see why you're denying this. India had dreamt of weakening Pakistan since partition.

In fact, Bangladesh rejoining Pakistan is a dream of some in Pakistan.

To those of a religious inclination, yes. To those who think realistically, no.

As far that thought of India eyeing Bangladesh, it is put paid by the fact that India quit as soon as Bangladesh became independent and did not hang on like the US in Iraq, where US has strategic reasons to do so.

India could not hang onto Bangladesh after independence. There was no legitimacy for it. If it did, then India would not have been able to justify its reasons for interfering in an internal affair of Pakistan.

As for your quote on reunion. I think it's a bad idea, and Pakistan is better off without Bangladesh. Read again, so you understand this POV also exists!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There you go quoting Musharraf again. What did he say? You never seem t tell! I'm sure Musharaf would not deny that splitting Pakistan territory and reducing it would have been an Indian dream. At the time the theory would have been divide and conquer. I don't see why you're denying this. India had dreamt of weakening Pakistan since partition.

Yes, I quote Musharraf since I think that he is one of the most pragmatic leaders Pakistan has had for quite some time!!

What is there to tell. Read his book by spending some money. I spent Rs (Indian) 950 to buy it and read it!!!!

I would be the last one to state that India did not seize the opportunity presented by Pakistan. Indeed, India seized the opportunity and from the Indian strategic point of view, it was but natural.

But as far as today is concerned, much water has flowed down the Ganges and Indus and the strategic scenario has changed immensely.

It is time to mend bridges and not burn them! At least, that is what India should do.

To those of a religious inclination, yes. To those who think realistically, no.

You are absolutely right and I am not surprised that I agree with you, unlike you get surprised when you agree with me! Why? Because you are looking at realpolitiks and not emotions and sentiments.

India could not hang onto Bangladesh after independence. There was no legitimacy for it. If it did, then India would not have been able to justify its reasons for interfering in an internal affair of Pakistan.

Right and wrong.

US is hanging on in Iraq and will do so, come what may. It is required for strategic reasons.

Indeed India would not have been able to justify its reasons for hanging on and it would not look good either. It was brilliant strategy to quit while the going was good!

 

[Scorpius]

Producing maps is not the answer. What has the Andamanese common with, let us say, the Punjabis of India? Yet they are Indians! And there are huge distances separating them!

Gaps are also no answer.

It is not I who has no clue, it is you who is clueless since you are looking at the spatial difference alone. National feeling is not only based on distances. It is based on congruity in religious, cultural, social and other affinities.

The unfortunate part is that you are superficial in vision and that is what makes it difficult.

Yes but geography plays a part in distinguishing one countries culture, society from another.

And why not?

On the one hand you say distance is what made Bengalis alien and yet on the other hand you dismiss the current ethnic/ subnational problems of Pakistan, even though distance is not an issue! Make up your mind.

Our cultures and our attitudes are similar enough that we get on well with each other and are proud to be pakistanis. Most of the people of pakistan get on fine with other ethnic groups, there are always exceptions though but these are in the minority.

I am glad you admit that Jinnah was wrong and he did not understand the issues involved as you have so clearly understood! I am sure the majority of Pakistanis would not agree with you since it is an insulting thought!

Yes, he was human and you are not!

May I request you not to demean Jinnah even if he is wrong!

I'm not human? what are you on about. I didn't demean him one bit.

I don't. The Quaran says so!

I reckon that you should accept it as the word of Allah!

Or you wish to be the rationale man?

No you do want a wider ummah so dont say "i dont". Dont tell me what I should accept or presume to know about my beliefs, its none of your business.

 

[Awaaz]

hay not every pakistani loves jinnah, so say what you feel as its your right to freedom of speech and thought.

 

[bd_wonder]

Bd-wonder,

The English metaphor goes - if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride!

Indeed, if you are regretting having left Pakistan, who is stopping you from joining?

IF indians had a brain they wouldn't interject in here. but are you a muslim by any chance? as many a hindu have this tendency to pose as muslims in pk/bd fora. lol

Wonderful, isn't it?

Why are you not at doing so? And why have you been yourself instrumental in breaking this dream by ensuring Pakistan is broken up!

Or do you feel that the Mukti Bahini and the Bangladeshis are ridiculous people who went about ensuring that liberation that they were chasing and which caused so many deaths and other atrocities was a false dream!

Are you a Bengali? Do answer that question first.

are you retarded? i dont know but may be you are. i did mention a 1,000 miles of hostile indian territory separating pakistan and bangladesh that ensures (to this day) that there can never be a successful unity amongst these brotherly people as long as indian hostile territory of a thousand miles is well indian/hindustani.
that needs to be captures and a CONTIGUOUS stretch of land from bangladesh to pakistan, from sylhet/chittagong all the way through bihar uttar pradesh delhi etc to baluchistan and sarhad is what'll work. then there'll be 'middle men' indians who're muslims in north india that'll bridge the gap between two extremities of subcontinental muslims. (geographically at two extremes are bd and pk)

 

[Scorpius]

bdwonder are u nuts? Not many pakistanis want places like uttar pradesh, bihar, chittagong as part of Pakistan.

If bengalis want part of India then fight for it, don't try to lump us in with your stupid plans and use the " my brother in islam" line of argument.