Cambodian students Protest at Vietnam Embassy

[Politically-Correct]

Ok, here goes a potentially stupid question. How can I use the conversations option?

 

[xesy]

1/3 of Vietnam is captured from Champa people and they launch a campaign of genocide to Champa people, and another 1/3 is from Cambodia，moreover before we prevent them they wanted to invade Thailand in 1979 war, so with Vietnam in ASEAN, how couldn't Laos, Cambodia and Thailand be worried?

Would you kindly point out which part of VN was taken from Cambodia in 1978? And genocide was caused by the China supported Khmer Rogue, against Cambodian and Vietnamese. What kind of history class did you take?

 

[Aepsilons]

@xesy ,

Correct me if I am wrong but did not the Champa Kingdom initiated a war of aggression towards the Dai Viet as early as the 5th century when it made raids in the Red River Delta? In addition, from my recollection in previous history courses i took my undergraduate years, the forces of Suryavarman, the Deva Raja of the Khmer Empire, was supported by the Champa Kingdom in an attempt to conquer Dai Viet. The invasion led by the Khmer and Cham forces failed to subdue Dai Viet.

When Champa and the Khmer Empire were not busy waging disastrous wars with Dai Viet, which usually ended in failure for them, they were busy warring amongst themselves. I mean, during the 12th and 13th century when Champa was already contracting in terms of territory, she was also subjected to invasions from the Khmer. So in actuality, it was the countless offensive campaigns against the Dai Viet and Khmers that bled Champa of its population. And directly led to its utter demise and subsequent ceasure to exist as a state.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,
Kenji

 

[xesy]

@xesy ,

Correct me if I am wrong but did not the Champa Kingdom initiated a war of aggression towards the Dai Viet as early as the 5th century when it made raids in the Red River Delta? In addition, from my recollection in previous history courses i took my undergraduate years, the forces of Suryavarman, the Deva Raja of the Khmer Empire, was supported by the Champa Kingdom in an attempt to conquer Dai Viet. The invasion led by the Khmer and Cham forces failed to subdue Dai Viet.

When Champa and the Khmer Empire were not busy waging disastrous wars with Dai Viet, which usually ended in failure for them, they were busy warring amongst themselves. I mean, during the 12th and 13th century when Champa was already contracting in terms of territory, she was also subjected to invasions from the Khmer. So in actuality, it was the countless offensive campaigns against the Dai Viet and Khmers that bled Champa of its population. And directly led to its utter demise and subsequent ceasure to exist as a state.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,
Kenji

I don't know how to translate a few ancient countries names to English, but as far as I know, there were 4 kingsdoms in SEA before the 5th century. One was An Nam, one was Khmer Empire (Chan Lap), one was on Thailand (Xiem) and the smallest one was on South VN today (Phu Nam). Basically the smallest country was conquered by Chan Lap but Chan Lap had little control over the land. But then much like VN and China kept fighting, Chan Lap and Xiem were at many wars. From 15th century, Chan Lap weaken and sook An Nam for military support. An Nam used political marriage to interfere in Chan Lap and Xiem war, then in exchange for the support to the King, moving VNese to settle in the much deserted South VN (at that time, the area was mostly swamp). With the VNese settled in, South VN became much lively and properous. In 1757, after helping the King of Chan Lap reclaim the throne, Chan Lap King gave An Nam the land of South VN.

 

[NiceGuy]

@xesy ,

Correct me if I am wrong but did not the Champa Kingdom initiated a war of aggression towards the Dai Viet as early as the 5th century when it made raids in the Red River Delta? In addition, from my recollection in previous history courses i took my undergraduate years, the forces of Suryavarman, the Deva Raja of the Khmer Empire, was supported by the Champa Kingdom in an attempt to conquer Dai Viet. The invasion led by the Khmer and Cham forces failed to subdue Dai Viet.

When Champa and the Khmer Empire were not busy waging disastrous wars with Dai Viet, which usually ended in failure for them, they were busy warring amongst themselves. I mean, during the 12th and 13th century when Champa was already contracting in terms of territory, she was also subjected to invasions from the Khmer. So in actuality, it was the countless offensive campaigns against the Dai Viet and Khmers that bled Champa of its population. And directly led to its utter demise and subsequent ceasure to exist as a state.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,
Kenji

Base on history book, we gained the independence from China in 939, so there was no Dai Viet in 5th century.

According to Chinese records, Sambhuvarman (Fan Fan Tche) was crowned king of Lâm Ấp in 529 AD. Inscriptions credit him with rehabilitating the temple to Bhadresvara after a fire. Sambhuvarman also sent delegations and tribute to China, and unsuccessfully invaded what is now northern Vietnam.[13]

The Chinese sent General Pham Tu to pacify the Chams after they raided Vietnam, which was part of China in 543, the Chams were defeated.[14]

In 605 AD, a general Liu Fang (劉方) of the Chinese Sui dynasty invaded Lâm Ấp, won a battle by luring the enemy war-elephants into an area booby-trapped with camouflaged pits, massacred the defeated troops, and captured the capital.[15]In the 620s, the kings of Lâm Ấp sent delegations to the court of the recently established Tang Dynasty and asked to become vassals of the Chinese court.[16][17]

Chinese records report the death of the last king of Lâm Ấp as falling in 756 AD. Thereafter for a time, the Chinese referred to Champa as "Hoan Vuong" or "Huanwang".[18] The earliest Chinese records using a name related to "Champa" are dated 877 AD; however, such names had been in use by the Cham themselves since at least 629 AD, and by the Khmer since at least 657 AD.[19]
History of Champa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway: Champa did attack us first, and we had to counter attack

 

[aliaselin]

Would you kindly point out which part of VN was taken from Cambodia in 1978? And genocide was caused by the China supported Khmer Rogue, against Cambodian and Vietnamese. What kind of history class did you take?

It seems your English is learnt from a teacher of physical education, and do you know what is the meaning for genocide? Khmer Rouge is part of Việt Nam Cộng sản Đảng and later Đông Dương Cộng sản Đảng. They may have their faults on political movement and done lots of bad things to Cambodia people, but the Vietnam's perisisten invasion of Cambodia，both physically and politically，made Pol Pot who previously supported by Vietnam become anti-Vietnam.
Another example is Hun Sen, who is also a puppet of Vietnam at first，however, as a Cambodians he became further and further away from Vietnam naturally because Vietnam is aggressive and always thinking to take the land of Laos, Cambodia and Thailand and do genocide things just like to Champa people.

 

[xesy]

It seems your English is learnt from a teacher of physical education, and do you know what is the meaning for genocide? Khmer Rouge is part of Việt Nam Cộng sản Đảng and later Đông Dương Cộng sản Đảng. They may have their faults on political movement and done lots of bad things to Cambodia people, but the Vietnam's perisisten invasion of Cambodia，both physically and politically，made Pol Pot who previously supported by Vietnam become anti-Vietnam.
Another example is Hun Sen, who is also a puppet of Vietnam at first，however, as a Cambodians he became further and further away from Vietnam naturally because Vietnam is aggressive and always thinking to take the land of Laos, Cambodia and Thailand and do genocide things just like to Champa people.

Face palm!
Communist Party of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From 1951 till 1978 there was plenty of time for the Khmer People's Revolutionary Party to be independent, especially when VN busy fighting the US. And just google the net and you can easily see that Khmer Rogue took military actions against VN first, then VN retaliated. Pol Pot abandoned VN to jumped in China arms, so yeah, even though he was a devil, to China he was an obidient evil.

And if VN had ever committed genocide, so it would have been the US who should have acted first, not China. Because after all they were VN enemies at that time.

 

[aliaselin]

Face palm!
Communist Party of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From 1951 till 1978 there was plenty of time for the Khmer People's Revolutionary Party to be independent, especially when VN busy fighting the US. And just google the net and you can easily see that Khmer Rogue took military actions against VN first, then VN retaliated. Pol Pot abandoned VN to jumped in China arms, so yeah, even though he was a devil, to China he was an obidient evil.

And if VN had ever committed genocide, so it would have been the US who should have acted first, not China. Because after all they were VN enemies at that time.

So you also admit that there was plenty of time they are not independent and you called each others comrades for quite a long time? And that time Pol Pot is not a teenager but a man with full intelligence. Just as I said, no matter how bad Pol Pot is, he is basically a Cambodians, and Vietnam's persistent invasion has made him do the choice, and Hun Sen is another example.、
Pol Pot is indeed supported by China but not his bad things to his people, and Pol Pot is not the only one support by China. We also support Laos and Vietnam's independence, until Ho Chi Minh dead and Vietnam showed your low credit.

 

[xesy]

So you also admit that there was plenty of time they are not independent and you called each others comrades for quite a long time? And that time Pol Pot is not a teenager but a man with full intelligence. Just as I said, no matter how bad Pol Pot is, he is basically a Cambodians, and Vietnam's persistent invasion has made him do the choice, and Hun Sen is another example.、
Pol Pot is indeed supported by China but not his bad things to his people, and Pol Pot is not the only one support by China. We also support Laos and Vietnam's independence, until Ho Chi Minh dead and Vietnam showed your low credit.

"Plenty of time not independent"? Before 1945, the Indochina Communist Party fought the Japanese. Then the war with the French took tolls on VN and forced ICP to be divided into 3 parties, for VN could only concentrate on itself now. VN was busy fighting France and the US so when did it take time to perform "persistent invasion" on Cambodia?

Indochina broke free from France was because VN fought and won agaisnt French, not because of China. Cambodia could go into China open arms, but it should have never attacked VN for China ordered it to do so. That's why despite of being "comrades", VN kicked Pol Pot sorry @ss.

 

[aliaselin]

"Plenty of time not independent"? Before 1945, the Indochina Communist Party fought the Japanese. Then the war with the French took tolls on VN and forced ICP to be divided into 3 parties, for VN could only concentrate on itself now. VN was busy fighting France and the US so when did it take time to perform "persistent invasion" on Cambodia?

Indochina broke free from France was because VN fought and won agaisnt French, not because of China. Cambodia could go into China open arms, but it should have never attacked VN for China ordered it to do so. That's why despite of being "comrades", VN kicked Pol Pot sorry @ss.

China ordered? Your evidence? History is not created by you. Why do you always flee from the questions：no matter who is in power, Cambodian leaders are always cautious about Vietnam? No matter Pol Pot or Hun Sen?
“VN could only concentrate on itself now” then why Wiki shows: . The Indochinese Communist Party had been heavily dominated by Vietnamese, and the KPRP was actively supported by the Vietnamese party during its initial phase of existence.
“Indochina broke free from France was because VN fought and won agaisnt French, not because of China” Without our materials and military advisory board，Võ Nguyên Giáp would strike the French using bananas until dead. If you think China do not help, then delete the history about Ho Chi Minh’s begging tourists in Beijing in 1950.

 

[Viet]

@xesy ,

Correct me if I am wrong but did not the Champa Kingdom initiated a war of aggression towards the Dai Viet as early as the 5th century when it made raids in the Red River Delta? In addition, from my recollection in previous history courses i took my undergraduate years, the forces of Suryavarman, the Deva Raja of the Khmer Empire, was supported by the Champa Kingdom in an attempt to conquer Dai Viet. The invasion led by the Khmer and Cham forces failed to subdue Dai Viet.

When Champa and the Khmer Empire were not busy waging disastrous wars with Dai Viet, which usually ended in failure for them, they were busy warring amongst themselves. I mean, during the 12th and 13th century when Champa was already contracting in terms of territory, she was also subjected to invasions from the Khmer. So in actuality, it was the countless offensive campaigns against the Dai Viet and Khmers that bled Champa of its population. And directly led to its utter demise and subsequent ceasure to exist as a state.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,
Kenji

Well, let read the history.

Actually the Viet and the Cham had been enemies for nearly 1,000 years. We are too different, not only in appearance but in culture and custom. We are a society based on rule of law abd confucian influenced, whereas the Kingdom of Champa was based on God like king, slaves, hinduism and caste systems.

The hostility between Viet and Cham people was so near getting out of control, so that when Vietnam was still a province of China, called as Annam, the emperor forbad any social contacts of the Viet to the people of Champa.

The Cham were a seafarers. They controlled most of sea tradings between SEA and India. Champa would proved later as one the most powerful enemies in our history.

Back in time, end of 10 century when we regained independent from the Han, the Cham Kingdom was determined to end our existence by force. The cham armies crossed the common border and launched a total of 10 invasions into Dai Viet. China not only did not intervene but encouraged the invasions.

Our army was successful to expel the invasions, although there were times when Dai Viet was on the brink of collapse. When the Cham ground and naval forces conquered Hanoi two times.

The final turn came in 14 century, and that marked as a major historic event in SEA. After another provocation from Champa, when they converted to Islam, Dai Viet was determined to finish them, to wipe them off the map. In preparation for the military campaign, Dai Viet acquired firearms technology (most likely illegally imported from Ming China) and defeated Champa a decisive battle.

The Cham feared the invasion and asked Ming China for help. The Chinese warned Dai Viet, but did not intervene. Anyway it was too late at that stage.

In revenge, the Ming invaded Dai Viet later, but that is another story.

Dai Viet became a regional power and military might, after the downfall of Champa. with the end of Champa, the days of the Khmer empire was numbered. Dai Viet army defeated the Ming in the North and advanced to as far as Burma in the West.

A little bit of history. You see, China rather wants to support our enemy to end our existence than to help us. They act to the motto: "if you don't love me, I will kill you."

Yes, you are right. Champa started the aggression, they deserved their fate.

 

[xesy]

China ordered? Your evidence? History is not created by you. Why do you always flee from the questions：no matter who is in power, Cambodian leaders are always cautious about Vietnam? No matter Pol Pot or Hun Sen?
“VN could only concentrate on itself now” then why Wiki shows: . The Indochinese Communist Party had been heavily dominated by Vietnamese, and the KPRP was actively supported by the Vietnamese party during its initial phase of existence.
“Indochina broke free from France was because VN fought and won agaisnt French, not because of China” Without our materials and military advisory board，Võ Nguyên Giáp would strike the French using bananas until dead. If you think China do not help, then delete the history about Ho Chi Minh’s begging tourists in Beijing in 1950.

Like @Viet said in the above post, VN and Cambodia has a history of fighting each other. And "enemy of my enemy is my friend", that's why China and Cambodia are friend when it comes to dealing with VN.

It's ok for Cambodian to be cautious of VN, after all we are their latest enemies till now. If Cambodia and Thailand go to war, sure they will not be as hostile as they are now towards VN.

Back to the topic, do you have any ideas about what lands those Cambodian are asking back? If yes then what make those lands rightfully belong to Cambodian? Don't support them just because they are Cambodian and they are targeting VN.

P/s: the banana joke was funny, but I am sure there were other countries who was interested in helping VN fight France. Even the US send specialists to train VNese in guerilla warfare.

 

[aliaselin]

Like @Viet said in the above post, VN and Cambodia has a history of fighting each other. And "enemy of my enemy is my friend", that's why China and Cambodia are friend when it comes to dealing with VN.

It's ok for Cambodian to be cautious of VN, after all we are their latest enemies till now. If Cambodia and Thailand go to war, sure they will not be as hostile as they are now towards VN.

Back to the topic, do you have any ideas about what lands those Cambodian are asking back? If yes then what make those lands rightfully belong to Cambodian? Don't support them just because they are Cambodian and they are targeting VN.

P/s: the banana joke was funny, but I am sure there were other countries who was interested in helping VN fight France. Even the US send specialists to train VNese in guerilla warfare.

So this is the attitude of Vietnam towards other weak countries? So don‘t cry when we kick on your ***.
US? Wow, it indeed play an important roles.
Fifty-one years ago, 37 pilots for an air service secretly owned by the CIA braved heavy anti-aircraft fire to supply beleaguered French troops in the valley of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam
CNN.com - France honors CIA pilots - Feb 28, 2005
I think your thanks to them may be due to they killed more than 1 million of Vietnameses in Vietnam war, and next time if they kill more, say 10 million, maybe you will be willingly to become the 52 states of America.

 

[xesy]

So this is the attitude of Vietnam towards other weak countries? So don‘t cry when we kick on your ***.
US? Wow, it indeed play an important roles.
Fifty-one years ago, 37 pilots for an air service secretly owned by the CIA braved heavy anti-aircraft fire to supply beleaguered French troops in the valley of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam
CNN.com - France honors CIA pilots - Feb 28, 2005
I think your thanks to them may be due to they killed more than 1 million of Vietnameses in Vietnam war, and next time if they kill more, say 10 million, maybe you will be willingly to become the 52 states of America.

What attitude? The Cambodian is cautious, why should we try to unnerve them? After the 1979 war you don't think VN wasn't cautious when dealing with China?

I am talking about the early state of VN-France war. Viet Minh received some US small arms and training from US specialists. Everybody know that France after WW2 didn't want to join US alliance, even came as far as refused US aid for rebuilding the country. Of course US was not fond of France either. Later when France stuck in VN war, it used all the help it could get, including the US. So the US see France > Vietnam so it abandoned VN to Chinese and Soviet arms.

And answer my questions, if you don't mind. Or else you won't even know why we are argueing in the first place?

 

[NiceGuy]

So this is the attitude of Vietnam towards other weak countries? So don‘t cry when we kick on your ***.
US? Wow, it indeed play an important roles.
Fifty-one years ago, 37 pilots for an air service secretly owned by the CIA braved heavy anti-aircraft fire to supply beleaguered French troops in the valley of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam

I think your thanks to them may be due to they killed more than 1 million of Vietnameses in Vietnam war, and next time if they kill more, say 10 million, maybe you will be willingly to become the 52 states of America.

People see ur TW likely become the 52 states of America more than any VN provinces now.