Call for Pakistan Army, to raise a TIER-1 Special Operations Force.

[jaibi]

I would agree. We need a specialist 'terrorist' hunter force.

 

[Hyperion]

No need to "raise" another unit. Just remove the morality clause of any SSG unit, make sure they are all patriotic (not infected by any notion that they are Arbee somehow), fund them better, and let them operate in the shadows. No questions asked. Even better, let me operate with them.

Here you've got yourself a special Tier-One force.

@Aeronaut

 

[Irfan Baloch]

a quick points r before I elaborate in later post

if raising this force is to deal with the insurgency then keep in mind that there are no duplications. in other existing forces which causes loss of time, money and wastage and specially inter departmental rivalry , jealousy, confusion and lack of unity in command. best candidate for this purpose and scale is frontier force or rangers who need to be trained for that purpose and the regular troops kept out of it.

how they are sourced equipped and trained can be left to discuss later.

most importantly.

why you need it?

insurgents?

boy they will kill you with small water torture, thats war of attrition. they will tire you down and then poke you in the eye and vanish and then you can beat the bushes and raise some flags on the rocks to claim victory and they will resurface at an airbase and do their stuff and vanish again.


Before our decision makers go ahead with the make-up of this new force and raise it both civilian and military leadership needs to be aware that defining the threat is as clear as "MUD" at the moment. we are offering peace, releasing militants and withdrawing from our own territory so what signal does it send then?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

No need to "raise" another unit. Just remove the morality clause of any SSG unit, make sure they are all patriotic (not infected by any notion that they are Arbee somehow), fund them better, and let them operate in the shadows. No questions asked. Even better, let me operate with them.

Here you've got yourself a special Tier-One force.

@Aeronaut

I had to politely shut up my childhood friend who is an SSG veteran and now a senior instructor.
when we met up after many years and talked about different operations against the scum, his opening line about Lal Masjid was..

"Col. Haroon was a very pious Muslim and didnt take attacking the Mosque lightly......"

I had to remind him that KSA army was not lesser Muslim either when it dealt with the terrorists in Grand Mosque siege. why obligation of religious sanctity was only bound on Pak army and not on those thugs who turned a House of God into a House of hate and terror?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I would agree. We need a specialist 'terrorist' hunter force.

learn from Israelis
they have very small teams who go in the homes of their targets and execute them there

No Chief Justice b@stardness
No Hamid Mir Jaffer or Orya Maqbool Jan who always defends taliban

 

[Hyperion]

It baffles me so much, when I see people on this forum still questioning, "were we right to do the Lal Masjid op".... and......." we should have negotiated with them"....... what the **** does that mean.... I don't get it...... has everyone just lost it?

Boy, Pakistan has changed so much. People have actually become so scared that they are no longer interested in securing their freedoms at any cost. They want a negotiated settlement with Lucifer.....

I had to politely shut up my childhood friend who is an SSG veteran and now a senior instructor.
when we met up after many years and talked about different operations against the scum, his opening line about Lal Masjid was..

"Col. Haroon was a very pious Muslim and didnt take attacking the Mosque lightly......"

I had to remind him that KSA army was not lesser Muslim either when it dealt with the terrorists in Grand Mosque siege. why obligation of religious sanctity was only bound on Pak army and not on those thugs who turned a House of God into a House of hate and terror?

 

[jaibi]

learn from Israelis
they have very small teams who go in the homes of their targets and execute them there

No Chief Justice b@stardness
No Hamid Mir Jaffer or Orya Maqbool Jan who always defends taliban

I readily agree, sir, we should import a lot of Israeli practices here as we face a very similar challenge to our sovergnity from outside and inside our country. And we only have us to count on.

 

[Dillinger]

a quick points r before I elaborate in later post

if raising this force is to deal with the insurgency then keep in mind that there are no duplications. in other existing forces which causes loss of time, money and wastage and specially inter departmental rivalry , jealousy, confusion and lack of unity in command. best candidate for this purpose and scale is frontier force or rangers who need to be trained for that purpose and the regular troops kept out of it.

how they are sourced equipped and trained can be left to discuss later.

most importantly.

why you need it?

insurgents?

boy they will kill you with small water torture, thats war of attrition. they will tire you down and then poke you in the eye and vanish and then you can beat the bushes and raise some flags on the rocks to claim victory and they will resurface at an airbase and do their stuff and vanish again.


Before our decision makers go ahead with the make-up of this new force and raise it both civilian and military leadership needs to be aware that defining the threat is as clear as "MUD" at the moment. we are offering peace, releasing militants and withdrawing from our own territory so what signal does it send then?

One slight correction, sir the territory the PA is "withdrawing" from has already been rid of he talibs so its not as if they will take over like in Swat.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

One slight correction, sir the territory the PA is "withdrawing" from has already been rid of he talibs so its not as if they will take over like in Swat.

just need to remind my Jr TT that Taliban are not a regular army that are holding lands and posts. they are always on the move so the place that has been "rid" of taliban will have them once again once the army is gone.

their leadership resides in settled areas of Pakistan and their recruits are sourced form the Madrassas all over Pakistan. the rest of the fighters are here today and gone tomorrow with or without the persuasion of pakistan army

 

[Hyperion]

Tried to drill this into his head on several occasions.... he still thinks that Taliban are something like a brigade or something that would make a base / cantonment and associated facilities.....

just need to remind my Jr TT that Taliban are not a regular army that are holding lands and posts. they are always on the move so the place that has been "rid" of taliban will have them once again once the army is gone.

their leadership resides in settled areas of Pakistan and their recruits are sourced form the Madrassas all over Pakistan. the rest of the fighters are here today and gone tomorrow with or without the persuasion of pakistan army

 

[SarthakGanguly]

We got a common enemy now - though some folks may not admit it(read strategic depth)
What you kill is good for us...and what we kill is good for you

 

[Hyperion]

Agreed. If you stop doing what we were doing to you........ else...... karma is a biaaach.......

We got a common enemy now - though some folks may not admit it(read strategic depth)
What you kill is good for us...and what we kill is good for you

 

[Dillinger]

Tried to drill this into his head on several occasions.... he still thinks that Taliban are something like a brigade or something that would make a base / cantonment and associated facilities.....

Yaara I have often pointed out that the TTP does leave a vanguard to fight forces conducting operations while the main body melts into the periphery. Thus their presence shifts from dominance of a specific area to operating on the move and as a guerrilla force in such cases- although in this case their AO involves urban/semi-urban and rural areas also instead of the standard jungles and badlands. Ergo ad hoc operations will not "clear" them out. BUT I was under the impression that the PA had taken cognizance of that and would leave enough men to conduct area dominance patrols and arm the local LEAs with the required capabilities to at least aid in said patrolling. Also the government (province/central) was supposed to move in and start on the economic and social aspect of COIN ops.

Seems like @Irfan Baloch sir had disabused that notion of mine.

 

[Dillinger]

@irfan bloch Sir, if what you say is true then why is the PA pulling out in the first place? Attrition is unlikely to defeat a disciplined force and the lord knows that the PA never shied away from a fight with us?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Seems like @Irfan Baloch sir had disabused that notion of mine.

yes I did because you were not that clear earlier

Taliban already operate on very small team mix. I dont know how many they can spare each time to watch the place while the main body moves away. I cant confirm if they operate like that. they will thin out easily and if they move in a big mass they will be picked off as well.

the "watchers" are local tribesmen who sympathise with them or work under duress and give intel to TTP about our movements. these people cant be "cleared" because they are ordinary tribesmen living in their home for centuries with added responsibility to facilitate in Making Pakistan a Deobandi Caliphate Utopia . our army cant kill them because that will cause major heartache in our taliban apologists parties, judiciary and news anchors