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Burqa fines:Muslim pledges to pay 'burka fines' for Muslim women

English newspapers are always anti France
what to expect from them?

Anyway i cannot see racism here. i don't know where it could be:
from toulouse to paris i never could see black people insulted or named neger. i never could see people beaten and never heard about it because of being black: this happening only in Russia.

France is at the same point than USA except that US is very opened to other habits. Here they are very attached of religion being far from any public organization, any state institution. it's their culture.

it is not english who should decide for France
everyone having its own culture which should be respected
if some salafists didn't like the behavior of france for burqa (because they say it here) then i suggest them that in Saudi Arabia they boycott any french product or they stop any christian church construction (i am kiding)

i am upset when french are entering in the iran affairs and say what iran should be
it is far worst for english: they are the ones who supported the terrorist group moudjahidines of people to take it out of terrorist list, theyare the ones who always interfer, forgetting the past of England and all the hell they did to destroy our country

everyone should respect the ideas of any country
but insulting / saying they are racist is a bad behavior. it is not true: you see a lot of white/black couple in the streets, or arab/white couple
 
Is it allowed to have wine wid dinner in Dubai ... It is French /western culture ;so when u cn hold law against sm other ppl culture / social activity by just saying a proverb when in rome b roman then they cn do same ...
Arab countries are never going to change there laws for western women liberty in there country then why u expecting french ppl to do so.
Secondly a promise frm all higher Islamic scholar of nt using womens as terrorist/human bomb cn also b useful in dis case.
If all Islamic nations wil ask terrorist organisation for nt using woman wid burkha as a terrorist cn also stop dis law to be passed ...
to live peacefully trust is smthng whch is needed to be build.
All ppl in dis world have d right to follow there culture/religon ... Bt u cnnt just ignore the pausible threat of terror strike . a bit of dialouge cn resolve dis matter ...
 
Hey Jana,

Are you willing to raise your voice for those women who get mutilated and are forced to wear a burqa by their fellow man and some ultra orthodox women as well in Pakistan or are you so anti-west that you will post actions that some countries take in order to protect their culture and their identity?

I see you come of as a very hypocritical person. Lets start with homegrown issues first before we go humping the French no? Why can't I wear shorts at the Garrison Park in Peshawar? Is that not a violation of my civil liberties? There are thousands upon thousands of women in Paksitan who are FORCED to wear a burqa because of their retarded, illiterate family members and men and there are burqa clad women who force their burqas on other young women as in the case of Lal Masjid.... did you raise your voice against them?

No i doubt it.. you were probably ranting against Musharaff that time I suppose.
 
France had banned all religious objects like the Sikh Turban or a Christian Cross in public areas too.
 
Is it allowed to have wine wid dinner in Dubai ... It is French /western culture ;so when u cn hold law against sm other ppl culture / social activity by just saying a proverb when in rome b roman then they cn do same ...
Arab countries are never going to change there laws for western women liberty in there country then why u expecting french ppl to do so.
Secondly a promise frm all higher Islamic scholar of nt using womens as terrorist/human bomb cn also b useful in dis case.
If all Islamic nations wil ask terrorist organisation for nt using woman wid burkha as a terrorist cn also stop dis law to be passed ...
to live peacefully trust is smthng whch is needed to be build.
All ppl in dis world have d right to follow there culture/religon ... Bt u cnnt just ignore the pausible threat of terror strike . a bit of dialouge cn resolve dis matter ...

Mr "scarecrow" :rofl:
Ok why dont you dress ur wife in what ever she wears (SARI) :rofl:
send her down my lane in "RUSSIA" see the response,
next if brave enough send her wearing a burka
n no one will care to see her .

uniquely diff why care what others think?
if a women wishes to wear a burka so be it
if she wishes to wear a skirt so be it why create such a fuss??
International level???

any ways i find indian women dress very oppressive to words her

its like she is wrapped maybe a gift yeh??

does anybody force it on her?

in france they might object on it also in future ???

maybe :cheers:
 
Can we debate without getting personal and without bringing up someone's wife or other family members as the response bound to be reciprocal?

Anyway let post an article by one of my favourite blogger, think he hit nail right on its head.

Why I Oppose The Ban On The Veil | Random Thoughts of a Demented Mind
During my graduate days at Stonybrook, once it happened that I opened the door to find a kindly- looking elderly gentleman in a nice suit standing outside. Since no one came to sell anything to poor desi graduate students, I was a bit surprised. Soon however his intent became clear—–somehow he had come to know that there was a bunch of heathens living in this corner of Long Island and he had taken upon himself to show us the way of Christ.I respectfully told him that I was not interested in what he was selling and was about to close the door when, with the smile stuck on his face like a Halloween mask, he said in a voice whose edge was unmistakable —-”Son, you don’t know it but you are going straight to Hell”. Fortunate enough to have had a comeback materialize instantly on the tip of my tongue, I barked “Good then I will see you there”, banged the door on his face and called the cops (since soliciting was prohibited on campus).

As an agnostic who does not believe in organized religion, I have always been uncomfortable with overtly-religious people. There would not be a problem as long as they kept their beliefs to themselves but more often than not, that simply does not happen. Soon they try to spread their “love” through overt acts of persuasion of the kind I experienced in Stonybrook or of the type Zakir Naik engages in. This typically consists of a two pronged strategy of endorsing their own product and concurrently disparaging their rivals. This kind of belief-pushing irritates me but I take it in the same vein that I take a Coke vs Pepsi or a Verizon vs AT&T knock-down copy and avoid these harvesters of the afterlife as I would an Amway salesman.

However the crisis starts when the people who define themselves by their religion, through threats and through acts of violence, start impinging on my basic rights of expression. Draw a picture and get your head cut off. Be disrespectful and you lose your hand. Be prepared to be physically assaulted or have your exhibition vandalized if you be deemed offensive. As if such extra-constitutional intimidation was not enough, there is also the government of India which, through the force of law, does its best to inhibit expressions of free opinion, be it a Satanic Verses or a book on Shivaji. The logic is simple: they are to be banned because they hurt “religious sentiments”.

I always thought that in a democracy, free speech needs to be guarded especially when it hurts someone’s sentiments; for benign statements that draw no blood, what is the need for the protection by the state? Evidently I was wrong.

On the same principle though, I am opposed to the French ban on the veil as I see it as an impingement by a secular progressive society on the right of an individual, in this case someone who is overtly religious, to express herself as she deems fit. The official reason for the ban is that the burkha is a symbol of female enslavement and that it has no place in civilized society. While I recognize the need for the state to intervene where freedom of practice goes against the most basic human rights, like the right to live (honor killings, widow burning) or the right to education, the issue of the veil is slightly different in that many people who wear it do so out of their own free will (as evidenced here). While the state should interfere if people are forced to cover themselves up, it has no right to prevent citizens from making what are essentially voluntary sartorial choices, specifically those that impact only the person making that choice and which lead to no deprivation for anyone, except again the person making the choice.

The retort to this is usually “Aha Muslim women have been conditioned by their religion to welcome their enslavement. So when they say they actually want to wear a veil, they really do not. Or should not.”Once we accept this as valid, we have started walking the slippery slope of majoritarianism wherein what the majority believes to be right, is sought to be imposed on a minority with control being exercised even on actions that are so intensely personal (like what people wear) that they really should not concern anyone else, far less the state.

Personally I do not understand why Muslim women would want to cover their faces up and found most of the reasons given here unconvincing. Veils, like any overt display of religiosity, makes me greatly uncomfortable. However I have no right to forcibly prevent someone from doing something that makes me uncomfortable—be it preaching, be it selling Coke between deliveries, or be it covering their face with a piece of cloth. I can protest it, I can call it retrograde and medieval but I have no moral right to stop it, either through might or through law.

If I started feeling that I had the right to impose my mistrust of all the manifestations of organized religion on others, I would be indistinguishable from religious conservatives who use this “We know better and you are offending my notion of right and wrong” stance to attack couples on Valentine’s Day or in front of a pub, thus preventing them from exercising their basic freedoms. In the case of the French ban on the veil, the fact that it is not a frenzied mob or a loony theocracy but a secular government, which is engaging in personal freedom-inhibiting behavior using secularism-feminism as its rationale, should not make it more acceptable.

Now of course the real reason why Sarkozy’s action is so popular in France and has gained such wide acceptance in Europe (considered to be more liberal than the US where paradoxically public opinion is against the French action) has nothing to do with concern about the freedom or lack thereof of Muslim women. The burkha is seen by many as a symbol of Islamic assertiveness, a symbol that Muslims do not seek to assimilate into European culture but instead want to make European culture Islamic, in roughly the same way that chhat puja is seen by many in Maharashtra as an expression of North Indian pride and of their intent to not be assimilated into Marathi culture.

Without going into whether this burkha-phobia is a valid fear or whether the government can really do anything about that, one has to accept that banning the garment is a knee-jerk reaction to Islamic influence, one that serves exactly the opposite purpose for which it is intended. It gives the radicals a genuine grievance to promote the miasma of Islamic “victimhood” , lends credence to the “Islam is under threat” slogan, pushes even moderates to the extremes of religious isolation and shows that sometimes even secularism can be as dogmatic and stifling as ultra-religious regimes on matters of personal choice and acceptance.
 
Can we debate without getting personal and without bringing up someone's wife or other family members as the response bound to be reciprocal?

Anyway let post an article by one of my favourite blogger, think he hit nail right on its head.

Why I Oppose The Ban On The Veil | Random Thoughts of a Demented Mind

youknowwho who?

well when ur scare crow uses the terms burka and terrorist to gether well it is bound to be reciprocal?

i dont know wat his intentions are but "who" its bad to insult others
coz this what u will get back?

ur county has tolerant laws very good and i think it should be learned by france

inda knows very well when a person is bent down to die then its his way to hell and you cant do a daam about it yeh?

burka controversy will create hell.
 
Spartacus_Σπάρτακο;1000408 said:
youknowwho who?

well when ur scare crow uses the terms burka and terrorist to gether well it is bound to be reciprocal?

i dont know wat his intentions are but "who" its bad to insult others
coz this what u will get back?

ur county has tolerant laws very good and i think it should be learned by france

inda knows very well when a person is bent down to die then its his way to hell and you cant do a daam about it yeh?

burka controversy will create hell.

Neither is he 'my' scare crow nor do I fully comprehend above paragraph. Bye
 
The Burka isn't even Islamic from what my Pakistani friend tells me. He says that only the Hijab is necessary for the hair by strict religious guidelines. So what is the fuss all about? Covering your entire face if not a crime is a shameful act of male domination on a confused and scared woman and looks odd in open societies where females are not seen as dirty strange creatures that will seduce you at the drop of a hat or you be inclined to rape them. There are some things the West can help Islam by pulling it out of the donkey ages.
 
...
Are you willing to raise your voice for those women who ... are forced to wear a burqa by their fellow man and some ultra orthodox women as well in Pakistan .......

Sir,
Agreed that they are being forced. But where does Islam enter into it? If only we favoured Islam over our Satanic cultural values, repression of our countrywomen would have been over with. But we're a Hindu society with Muslim names.

Would you be willing to join my fight against dowry, something the lack of which results in hundreds of deaths, beating and divorced each year?

Better still, would you fight agaisnt the overlording attitude of 'elders' that makes them force their will on family that they deem subordinate, of which this being forced to wear a burqa3 is a part? How would you propose we do that?
...which gives me a thought - why is being forced to wear a burqa3 a bad thing if it is no different than a kid being forced to not eat too much candy?
 
If a terrorist man (of any religion) wears a burqa and hides bombs in it, how to catch him? probably thats why french want the ban.

what if a terrorist man (of any religion) wears a turban with a bomb under it...how do we know his got a bomb under it. thats why french should consider this.:police:
 
what the world has come to, you need to pay money to cover your self, you are not allowed to hide your body, the more naked you are the more respectable..
 
A terrorist can hide a bomb in his underwear. The fact of the matter is that the Burqa is not a religious garment but a local tribal customary fashion that belongs in the dunes it came from and not in countries with cc cameras everywhere.
 

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