Bring it on, TTP!

[doppelganger]

His faith and his family and tribe...........but exceptions are there. A person who doest have any affiliation with a tribe and doesnt possess land in his native village, is of lowest social status among pashtuns. If you listen to pashto songs and poetry, and literature, the emphasis is on love and patriotism towards pashtun watan rather than on specific country. As loyalty towards the tribe is priority, so interests can be either with afghanistan or pakistan or with both depending upon the location of tribe. Keep in mind that with urbanization, things are changing and sense of being pashtun is fading away particularly in some areas of KPK province of Pakistan and urban centres.

Thanks bro. But the bolded bit is a HUGE conflict of interest.

 

[Winchester]

Is it not true that many of the attackers were not actually Pushtun, but were from bordering areas? Uzbeks etc.? Reports of blonde hair, blue eyes?

Also, were the children seen as Pashtun? Or were they seen as the progeny of the PA officers?

I realise that as in India not all kids in Army schools are necessarily army kids, but then, there is no way of segreagating those in that manner on a indiscriminate blood spree like what happened.

Ever heard of the guy who just got hanged for the GHQ attack...
more so ever heard of Mullah Abdul Aziz the Red Mosque looney who is perhaps their most prominent ideological face..
you are going nowhere with your cherry picking !

 

[Samandri]

Whats with you mahajars, for real?

I am not a "mahajar", my family is settled in Lakki since centuries, conqured it from niazis in wars......the only "mahajars" in pakistan are either from afghanistan or hindostan, both did hijrat

 

[doppelganger]

Ever heard of the guy who just got hanged for the GHQ attack...
more so ever heard of Mullah Abdul Aziz the Red Mosque looney who is perhaps their most prominent ideological face..
you are going nowhere with your cherry picking !

There is an increasingly growing feeling that the Pashtuns feel under siege from the rest of Pakistan. With the army and airforce bombing them. They see it not as a war on the terrorists, but as a war on them, their way of life. They saw it initially as the Pakistan Army. But as things continued with little protest, the feeling grew that Pakistan Army = Pakistan People. And yes, that Pakistan Army = Pakistan Punjabis. Regardless of the fact that there are many Pashtuns in the Pakistani Army and or that many top ranking officers are also Pashtun. They still see your army not as Pakistani but as Punjabi.

Correct?

 

[TheNoob]

I am not a "mahajar", my family is settled in Lakki since centuries, conqured it from niazis in wars......the only "mahajars" in pakistan are either from afghanistan or hindostan, both did hijrat

lol sorry.
I meant to say
Whats with you and mahajars?

 

[Winchester]

There is an increasingly growing feeling that the Pashtuns feel under siege from the rest of Pakistan. With the army and airforce bombing them. They see it not as a war on the terrorists, but as a war on them, their way of life. They saw it initially as the Pakistan Army. But as things continued with little protest, the feeling grew that Pakistan Army = Pakistan People. And yes, that Pakistan Army = Pakistan Punjabis. Regardless of the fact that there are many Pashtuns in the Pakistani Army and or that many top ranking officers are also Pashtun. They still see your army not as Pakistani but as Punjabi.

Correct?

No, not correct !
I have yet to see someone from the Taliban seeing it that way
They along with their fellow jihadis in Punjab see the Pakistan army as a secular institution or BEDEEN army rather than what you have presumed
They also hold the same view about other Pakistani civilians like this attack on the crowded market place in Peshawar proved
Car bomb kills 40 in Qissa Khwani Bazaar
You are making the same point in your different posts without backing it up with anything apart from your pre-conceived notions sitting far-away in India !

 

[Samandri]

lol sorry.
I meant to say
Whats with you and mahajars?

What is their problem with pashtuns? that should be the question

 

[doppelganger]

No, not correct !

You are making the same point in your different posts without backing it up with anything apart from your pre-conceived notions sitting far-away in India !

Well what do you expect?

I see your army engaged against two groups, currently and historically. The Pashtun in the NW and the Baloch in the SW.

I see the killings and bombs and massacres happening not in your Punjab belt. I see them in Karachi. And I see them in the NW and SW belts.

I then put 2 and 2 together and get 4. I see it as a Pashtun and Baloch vs Punjab (and Sindh) ethnic issue primarily now. Religion is always there. A tool. A pulpit. But I am trying to get to the meat of the issue from the human angle. I am not including the shia killings in here. Those are definitely sectarian. But the current conflict, which is growing, is one of the Indian Pakistan fighting and feeling the blowback from the non-Indian Pakistan.

 

[TheNoob]

Well what do you expect?

I see your army engaged against two groups, currently and historically. The Pashtun in the NW and the Baloch in the SW.

I see the killings and bombs and massacres happening not in your Punjab belt. I see them in Karachi. And I see them in the NW and SW belts.

I then put 2 and 2 together and get 4. I see it as a Pashtun and Baloch vs Punjab (and Sindh) ethnic issue primarily now. Religion is always there. A tool. A pulpit. But I am trying to get to the meat of the issue from the human angle. I am not including the shia killings in here. Those are definitely sectarian. But the current conflict, which is growing, is one of the Indian Pakistan fighting and feeling the blowback from the non-Indian Pakistan.

No, that is not how it is.
Just your weird prespective of looking at the conflict...

What is their problem with pashtuns? that should be the question

0.0 you must have a narrow way of looking at things.

 

[doppelganger]

No, that is not how it is.
Just your weird prespective of looking at the conflict...

What is weird?

Is your army deployed in Punjab against its own people?

Sindh?

Balochistan?

Pashtunistan (including all of what we traditionally and historically call NWFP)?

 

[Samandri]

There is an increasingly growing feeling that the Pashtuns feel under siege from the rest of Pakistan. With the army and airforce bombing them. They see it not as a war on the terrorists, but as a war on them, their way of life. They saw it initially as the Pakistan Army. But as things continued with little protest, the feeling grew that Pakistan Army = Pakistan People. And yes, that Pakistan Army = Pakistan Punjabis. Regardless of the fact that there are many Pashtuns in the Pakistani Army and or that many top ranking officers are also Pashtun. They still see your army not as Pakistani but as Punjabi.

Correct?

This sentiment do exist among liberal pashtun nationalists, that pashtun areas are burning due to wrong policies of Pak army in 80s and 90s. Taliban are also considered abominable children of pak army by Pashtun nationalists. The islamist section of pashtuns had good relations with Pak army, but after 2001 they despise them. Even those pashtuns, who are well integrated into pakistan, feel that they are getting cornered and isolated day by day due to taliban factor. Yesterday they were heroes and saviours, today they are suspects of terrorism. The other pakistanis are getting more hostile, you might have read the posts of many pakistani members here, they were suggesting use of nukes on pashtun tribal areas after peshawer incident. Ironically the students killed in the incident were pashtuns, some of them also from FATA. Now which normal population would suggest using nuke on their own countrymen? thats reflects the growing hostility and hate against pashtuns in pakistan........

 

[Winchester]

Well what do you expect?

I see your army engaged against two groups, currently and historically. The Pashtun in the NW and the Baloch in the SW.

I see the killings and bombs and massacres happening not in your Punjab belt. I see them in Karachi. And I see them in the NW and SW belts.

I then put 2 and 2 together and get 4. I see it as a Pashtun and Baloch vs Punjab (and Sindh) ethnic issue primarily now. Religion is always there. A tool. A pulpit. But I am trying to get to the meat of the issue from the human angle. I am not including the shia killings in here. Those are definitely sectarian. But the current conflict, which is growing, is one of the Indian Pakistan fighting and feeling the blowback from the non-Indian Pakistan.

There was no active insurgency in the tribal areas prior to 2004
Bomb attacks do take place in Punjab with the help of local punjabi facilitators and abettors
If the government takes on the local punjab based jihadi groups like LEJ there would be a similar blowback but not of this scale perhaps and army wouldn't be needed just like army is not needed when dealing with these elements in the settled areas of kpk
as for the term Indian-Pakistani

 

[Samandri]

There was no active insurgency in the tribal areas prior to 2004
Bomb attacks do take place in Punjab with the help of local punjabi facilitators and abettors
If the government takes on the local punjab based jihadi groups like LEJ there would be a similar blowback but not of this scale perhaps and army wouldn't be needed just like army is not needed when dealing with these elements in the settled areas of kpk
as for the term Indian-Pakistani

Things got worse in 2004 when pak army used heavy artillary on villages of south waziristan which caused huge civilian casualties. Now militants , who had escaped from afghanistan , were indeed staying in those villages as guests of locals. Neither locals nor foreigners had taken up arms against pakistan at that time but it is said that those who were involved in assassination attempt on musharaf , were staying in waziristan. Musharaf was supposed to approach tribes through FCR, political agent but he went with option of using shelling on their villages.........things got deteriorated and later nek mohammed emerged, who was technically the first pakistani taliban leader. After lal masjid incident, the conflict was no longer limited to waziristan

 

[doppelganger]

If the government takes on the local punjab based jihadi groups like LEJ there would be a similar blowback

We all know why your army does not. Just like we all know that one day your army will have to. Be forced to. And then Punjab will burn, just like today KPK is. Hope you guys see it too. Before it happens.

as for the term Indian-Pakistani

I said Indian Pakistan. As opposed to non Indian Pakistan.

 

[Samandri]

We all know why your army does not. Just like we all know that one day your army will have to. Be forced to. And then Punjab will burn, just like today KPK is. Hope you guys see it too. Before it happens.



I said Indian Pakistan. s opposed to non Indian Pakistan.

There is no way Pak army would use jets, tanks , artillary, gunship helicopters any where in punjab or sindh in any circumstances. In my own district, a plain area of KPK, they used jets and artillary on a village where some taliban were putting up resistance.....army rejected the request of our elders of jirga to deal with taliban in that village through local lashkar. Now that is unimaginable in punjab, there militants will be dealt through gun battle only