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What’s your take on Panama leaks? You think NS was guilty or not? suo motu justified or not?

Because I would think the pre-poll rigging claim would live or die on this point. Either, NS was corrupt or he was not- PML-N was sailing towards smooth victory in 2018 until Panama.
Country cant develop with NAB and without corruption

Corruption is necssary evil but should be just restricted for the rich


Shehrbano is an underage girl. It's sad to see that institutions which were supposed to protect us from nuclear armed neighbor have resorted to harassing little girls. What a disgrace.





@PanzerKiel @Foxtrot Alpha
Its maryum nawaz

Model town is acceptable to people
This is nothing

Had it been the unacceptable PML would have finished just like ANP
 
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Country cant develop with NAB and without corruption

Corruption is necssary evil but should be just restricted for the rich

Haha- good one.

I do think @chak Bammu raises a good point though in an offhand kind of way. We live in a post truth world where no one really has a monopoly on truth anymore. Unrestricted freedom of press doesn’t help here either.

The press originally developed as a state tool for propaganda in Europe and to shape a national perspective on things. Monarchs in Europe used it to develop consensus amongst the classes below them. It is actually what created the nations in Europe. In US, press freedoms really meant a “noora khushti” of a sense that allow for manufacturing consent within certain limits (in mainstream media) read Chomsky on this.

In Pakistan, post Musharraf era though, we have multiple competing narratives that have totally different world views. With a lot of moneyed interests. And frankly, cognitive dissonance exists on both sides.

I would read a lot of what Chak Bammu posted with curiousity. It’s the other sides truth. Ofc, the most significant pre-poll rigging was Panama, and how does one defend PML-N there?
 
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My bulk of the life was spent in Karachi.....what this little girl has quoted....i always liked that...since such people operate in pairs (not much)....locals should always get hold of them and given them a proper chitrol......
 
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Haha- good one.

I do think @chak Bammu raises a good point though in an offhand kind of way. We live in a post truth world where no one really has a monopoly on truth anymore. Unrestricted freedom of press doesn’t help here either.

The press originally developed as a state tool for propaganda in Europe and to shape a national perspective on things. Monarchs in Europe used it to develop consensus amongst the classes below them. It is actually what created the nations in Europe. In US, press freedoms really meant a “noora khushti” of a sense that allow for manufacturing consent within certain limits (in mainstream media) read Chomsky on this.

In Pakistan, post Musharraf era though, we have multiple competing narratives that have totally different world views. With a lot of moneyed interests. And frankly, cognitive dissonance exists on both sides.

I would read a lot of what Chak Bammu posted with curiousity. It’s the other sides truth. Ofc, the most significant pre-poll rigging was Panama, and how does one defend PML-N there?
PMLN narrative isnt complicated

It is support us as we represent you and will give you development

Khan is not going to spend on you..proof? Buzhdar was imposed in central punjab

IK biggest blunder was not to entertain central punjab or get more popular ove there
 
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IK and PTI leadership should stand by their activists just as they stood besides them despite poor performance in governance.
 
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PMLN narrative isnt complicated

It is support us as we represent you and will give you development

Khan is not going to spend on you..proof? Buzhdar was imposed in central punjab

IK biggest blunder was not to entertain central punjab or get more popular ove there
So 2 questions on this, I genuinely don’t know:-
1) did PML-N do such a great job in central Punjab? I thought that their work was only limited to Lahore at the expense of the rest of the province.
2) what role did the bureaucracy in Punjab have in failing Buzdar?
 
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So 2 questions on this, I genuinely don’t know:-
1) did PML-N do such a great job in central Punjab? I thought that their work was only limited to Lahore at the expense of the rest of the province.
2) what role did the bureaucracy in Punjab have in failing Buzdar?
Yes they did
PMLN undoubtly did a great job in central punjab

Lahore is 1/3 of central punjab
I mean its not difficult to do a good job and skim20% on top of it, let rest of punjab suffer

HENCE WHY SOUTH PUNJAB HAS WORSE MATERNAL MORTALITY THEN RURAL BALOCHISTAN!!!!

Buzdhar was from south that was the main issue while all beaucracy was from central ounjab invovled in skimming 20% too

So 2 questions on this, I genuinely don’t know:-
1) did PML-N do such a great job in central Punjab? I thought that their work was only limited to Lahore at the expense of the rest of the province.
2) what role did the bureaucracy in Punjab have in failing Buzdar?
But that works the formula was

1. Central punjab + hazara = enougj seats to form govt + gives credibility(presence in two provinces) 92+10 seats(the magic
Number is 272/2=141)

2. Buy off independents and south punjab will join largest party as always



The formula has always workes
 
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FIA has been used as a political tool by every regime and especially by zardari and sharif gang.
Only difference is this time it's being used by he who must not be named

Guys it's getting worse. Military junta is abducting all those who dare to speak against their involvement in coup.
Pro regime journalists have been asked to peddle fake propaganda and manufacture consent to facilitate human rights violations in name of national security.

 
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Yes they did
PMLN undoubtly did a great job in central punjab

Lahore is 1/3 of central punjab
I mean its not difficult to do a good job and skim20% on top of it, let rest of punjab suffer

HENCE WHY SOUTH PUNJAB HAS WORSE MATERNAL MORTALITY THEN RURAL BALOCHISTAN!!!!

Buzdhar was from south that was the main issue while all beaucracy was from central ounjab invovled in skimming 20% too


But that works the formula was

1. Central punjab + hazara = enougj seats to form govt + gives credibility(presence in two provinces) 92+10 seats(the magic
Number is 272/2=141)

2. Buy off independents and south punjab will join largest party as always



The formula has always workes
The formula must not include Hazara anymore
It has changed
 
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What’s your take on Panama leaks? You think NS was guilty or not? suo motu justified or not?

Because I would think the pre-poll rigging claim would live or die on this point. Either, NS was corrupt or he was not- PML-N was sailing towards smooth victory in 2018 until Panama.
Pre-poll rigging is not a claim. It is a fact. Panama was the launching point, but it can not be called the reason or effect of pre-poll rigging. PML-N tried to paint Panama Leaks as a conspiracy, but they were wrong in their rhetoric. Panama or no Panama, pre-poll rigging was going to happen regardless. It was a matter of control for Establishment & Panama was merely a bit of an excuse.

Do note that there were many other names in Panama Leaks, IK being one among them. There were others too. Founding a company in Panama was not the issue as such. The problem was the funds handled & their sources. Do note that NS had a valid defense. Otherwise PTI-aligned judges would not be using novel interpretation of Black Law dictionary & get stuck on non-declaration of un-received salary.

Any ways. I am not going to waste any more time on this. I have written enough already here & elsewhere. I can not keep digging up material to post it here & there.
 
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Haha- good one.

I do think @chak Bammu raises a good point though in an offhand kind of way. We live in a post truth world where no one really has a monopoly on truth anymore. Unrestricted freedom of press doesn’t help here either.

The press originally developed as a state tool for propaganda in Europe and to shape a national perspective on things. Monarchs in Europe used it to develop consensus amongst the classes below them. It is actually what created the nations in Europe. In US, press freedoms really meant a “noora khushti” of a sense that allow for manufacturing consent within certain limits (in mainstream media) read Chomsky on this.

In Pakistan, post Musharraf era though, we have multiple competing narratives that have totally different world views. With a lot of moneyed interests. And frankly, cognitive dissonance exists on both sides.

I would read a lot of what Chak Bammu posted with curiousity. It’s the other sides truth. Ofc, the most significant pre-poll rigging was Panama, and how does one defend PML-N there?
Ah, did not see this because my handle was mis-spelled.

Yes, the reason why I am so active is precisely that there are very few people here to provide a counter-point to all the pit-siyapa going on. If all these brave pro-PTI posters were ready to dish it out so gloriously, they ought to be ready to accept a bit of it too. Its only fair.

Reality is always more complicated than what a post can manage. I find myself in a position where I am expected to defend PML-N. By God I am just a voter who has to assess the lesser of evils, & not someone associated with any political party. This is most unsavory of positions.

I do know what NS & Co were up to through the 90s. I actually disliked them. Only later when I saw them suffer through the Mushy martial law, did I start to notice that the worst of the PML had become PML-Q, the king's party. CoD, rapprochement with arch-rivals PPP, a greater concern with poorer sections of society, the team of capable lawmakers who could & did deliver results made me rethink my position. The turning point was August 2014 when I was forced to ditch PTI as a party of disruption & Establishment-backed politics. Just for sake of principles & love of country, I had to support NS's narrative. When I saw pre-poll rigging (I was very much plugged into news & analysis at that time) I started to have a soft corner for PML-N. More thoughtful & highly educated people around me started to voice their opposition towards politics of Establishment that was causing so much disruption in the country & economy (TLP, Faizabad, marches on Islamabad, & what-not). So, its been a journey.

I have zero personal interest in PML-N, but I have a lot at stake in Pakistan. So I do what I think needs to be done. If it is supporting PML-N during the time of its persecution, then so be it. If it means to stand against anti-army rhetoric, even conditionally, then so be it. It is shocking for me to see that even some moderators, in their PTI zeal are posting inappropriate thoughts & logic. I must pitch in to correct the balance somewhat. If I seem a bit off-balance, it is a reaction to the extreme opinions bein voiced here.
 
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