Breaking: Fidayeen Attack on CRPF Convoy in Anantnag South Kashmir

[masterchief_mirza]

Btw,,, if pakistanis think, ,this is going to change anything,, then well.
Indains r apathetic to deaths. 10 mare toh shayad 100 aur uske post ke liye apply karenge,,, koi fark nahi parta.
Bas election time hua toh,,, ,,

As per IK, we no longer "think" about changing things, we just get on with changing whatever we want, at a time and place of our choosing.

 

[mastaan]

Yes, India and Pakistan are both waiting for the 'right time', meanwhile, the Kashmiris continue to suffer.

And Kashmir's freedom struggle is legitimate. The right to self determination is a binding principle of International law. So, it's not Jihad vs India as you try to portray.. It's 'International Law' vs (the so called) "World's Largest Democracy."

Yeah yeah yeah.. Let's clear the area in your control as per the same binding agreement and we get our Kashmiri Pundits back and plan a plebicite.. Why not.. You can not follow through on the first step, so why do you expect India to solve your insecurities.

You calling something legitimate means jack! Wait for 35a to go and in time 370 and progress will flow to J&K as well.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Yeah yeah yeah.. Let's clear the area in your control as per the same binding agreement and we get our Kashmiri Pundits back and plan a plebicite.. Why not.. You can not follow through on the first step, so why do you expect India to solve your insecurities.

You calling something legitimate means jack! Wait for 35a to go and in time 370 and progress will flow to J&K as well.

Ladies first.

 

[mastaan]

Ladies first.

Like i thought.. you haven't even read what the document says.. So, don't preach what you can't practice.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

And yes, when we on pdf say x is legitimate or y is illegitimate, it means nil. But when a Kashmiri freedom fighter states the same by a variety of means, you ought to listen.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yeah yeah yeah.. Let's clear the area in your control as per the same binding agreement and we get our Kashmiri Pundits back and plan a plebicite.. Why not.. You can not follow through on the first step, so why do you expect India to solve your insecurities.

You calling something legitimate means jack! Wait for 35a to go and in time 370 and progress will flow to J&K as well.

Let me educate you my ignorant Indian friend, Pakistan is under no obligation to withdraw its troops from Kashmir unilaterally and unconditionally.

As for the "First Step":

Step 1. A Truce Agreement is concluded
Step 2. Pakistan begins withdrawing its troops
Step 3. India too begins withdrawing its troops (to a minimum level) while Pakistani troops are being withdrawn
Step 4. Plebiscite by UN

A Truce Agreement was never reached because India rejected all demilitarization plans proposed by the UN. Pakistan accepted all.

As Truce Agreement could not be concluded, the Commission never notified Pakistan to begin withdrawing its forces.

Pakistan had made it clear to the UN that it was ready to withdraw its troops as soon as the Commission notified it,

Pakistan went a step further and told the UN that it was ready to withdraw its troops in favor of UN troops regardless of Indian reaction to such a proposal ...


There's a reason for which the UN appointed official mediator (i.e Sir Owen Dixon) blamed India and not Pakistan for halting the process ...


Pakistan stands ready to conclude a truce agreement with India, even today ...

And yes, when we on pdf say x is legitimate or y is illegitimate, it means nil. But when a Kashmiri freedom fighter states the same by a variety of means, you ought to listen.

We, just like India, are a party to the dispute. But here is what some neutral experts on International Law have concluded regarding Kashmir insurgency:

(The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) is an international human rights non-governmental organization based in Geneva. The Commission itself is a standing group of 60 eminent jurists(including senior judges, attorneys and academics) dedicated to ensuring respect for international human rights standards through the law. Commissioners are known for their experience, knowledge and fundamental commitment to human rights.)


ICJ sent a fact finding mission to Kashmir in 1995. The final report published not only challenged the accession of Kashmir to India, it went on to say "If as the ICJ mission has concluded , the people of Kashmir have a right for self determination, it follows that their insurgency is legitimate " ... (p.84-98)

https://www.icj.org/category/publications/reports/page/36/
https://www.icj.org/human-rights-in-kashmir-report-of-a-mission/

 

[mastaan]

Let me educate you my ignorant Indian friend, Pakistan is under no obligation to withdraw its troops from Kashmir unilaterally and unconditionally.

As for the "First Step":

Step 1. A Truce Agreement is concluded
Step 2. Pakistan begins withdrawing its troops
Step 3. India too begins withdrawing its troops (to a minimum level) while Pakistani troops are being withdrawn
Step 4. Plebiscite by UN

A Truce Agreement was never reached because India rejected all demilitarization plans proposed by the UN. Pakistan accepted all.

As Truce Agreement could not be concluded, the Commission never notified Pakistan to begin withdrawing its forces.

Pakistan had made it clear to the UN that it was ready to withdraw its troops as soon as the Commission notified it,

Pakistan went a step further and told the UN that it was ready to withdraw its troops in favor of UN troops regardless of Indian reaction to such a proposal ...


There's a reason for which the UN appointed official mediator (i.e Sir Owen Dixon) blamed India and not Pakistan for halting the process ...


Pakistan stands ready to conclude a truce agreement with India, even today ...

Yeah, you calling me ignorant doesn't make you any more aware or correct.

http://unscr.com/en/resolutions/doc/47 stated the steps clearly. We can debate about what happened on this through to 1951 and both sides changing their stances and when the commission really gave up, but that would be best done in Kashmir thread, where hopefully I can contribute one day, being domicile of that state. Today not qualified to contribute there. Dixon was given a very warm send off in Resolution 91 (if i recollect), so yes, I know about Dixon and his failures and getting the base document implemented. All 3 sides - India, Pakistan and UNO are naked in that hamam.

Fact is - Neither government wants a resolution.. everyone wants to cook their roti on the name of kashmir. people of Jammu and Kashmir (Not just Kashmir) suffer.

These terror acts however has nothing to do with any of that. This is gonna cost more civilian lives and India will continue to push to terminate this weed of terrorism from the beautiful state of J&K.

 

[-=virus=-]

First of all we have absolutely huge amounts of weaponry we could smuggle across. The MQM caches we found buried in Karachi alone could fund a small war. These are used weapons from all over the world, not Pakistani origin weapons. There is plenty of plausible deniability on the supply of these weapons, you have a huge coast line, they could have been smuggled in by anyone.

it would be quite a big undertaking, a project of that scale, to ship equipment to India proper, and then have it move overground from Bombay etc all the way to your jihad HQ, good luck with it.

Secondly, we don't need to provide advanced ATGM's, IED's are the name of the game. You might have all the tanks in the world, but you only have a few roads they can travel along, Kashmir is steep, not some flat land you can race across. Convoys will always be easy targets, as will main highways and bridges.

we'll have to wait and see if Pulwalma was just the first of many.

rest assured, a very unfair and disproportionate response will ensue.

Aircraft are only useful when swathes of territory are controlled by militants. How many bombing runs were done in Baghdad or in towns and cities of FATA for that matter? You have to have a target to hit, these guys don't have bases. Also in those mountains, helicopters are easy pickings too, if you boys don't shoot them yourselves.

just flatten entire villages then, but like the shiningt example the Pakistan Army has shown in their operaton zarb e azb..

we too, will humanely evacuate all the innocent civvies.

The politics is the hard part - getting allies to agree. Mind you they disagreed in Afghanistan, didn't seem to stop us there did it? We used American dollars to pretend to fight a war against America's enemies whilst secretly funding the same enemies with the same money.

That duplicity seems to have caught up with you lot now, hasn't it ?

You have a grand total of JEERO countries supporting Pakistan on Kashmir, not the Al Sauds, not the Iranian mullahs, not even China.. nobody.

We call it Karma.

There is also something else you under-estimate. You're not the only ones who can escalate. If you think you bomb Kashmiri's in srinagar, Indians will be safe in Delhi, Mumbai etc? Of course it'd escalate with innocent people paying the price. Talk of war dies down when you leave the door every day wondering if you'll come back home. Pakistani's speak from experience - that's why our PM talks about peace.

I never spoke of India escalating anything.

Terror attacks in Delhi and Mumbai is a worst case scenario, the gloves will come off and it will not be nice.

Just to be clear, we're NOT talking about a direct military conflict between India and Pakistan here, just a scenario where the Pak military and intel decides to take this pesky jihadi problem to middle east levels

then all bets are off,. jihadis will lose, andthere's a million other aspects to this so just be realistic as best we can

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yeah, you calling me ignorant doesn't make you any more aware or correct.

http://unscr.com/en/resolutions/doc/47 stated the steps clearly. We can debate about what happened on this through to 1951 and both sides changing their stances and when the commission really gave up, but that would be best done in Kashmir thread, where hopefully I can contribute one day, being domicile of that state. Today not qualified to contribute there. Dixon was given a very warm send off in Resolution 91 (if i recollect), so yes, I know about Dixon and his failures and getting the base document implemented. All 3 sides - India, Pakistan and UNO are naked in that hamam.

Fact is - Neither government wants a resolution.. everyone wants to cook their roti on the name of kashmir. people of Jammu and Kashmir (Not just Kashmir) suffer.

These terror acts however has nothing to do with any of that. This is gonna cost more civilian lives and India will continue to push to terminate this weed of terrorism from the beautiful state of J&K.

Yes, The UN Resolutions indeed are very clear:

• India, in an attempt to deceive the world, seeks to fasten on Pakistan a responsibility to withdraw troops from Jammu and Kashmir unilaterally and unconditionally, by quoting out of context a certain provision of UN Commission’s resolution of 13 August 1948, that is, Part 11, paragraph A.I.

• While doing so, India deliberately suppresses the other paragraphs of Part II. The Indians are guilty of suppressio veri and suggestio falsi.

• These subsequent paragraphs make it obvious that the obligation of Pakistan to withdraw its troops from the state of Jammu and Kashmir does not devolve until both sides conclude a truce agreement to govern the withdrawal of not only Pakistan forces but also the bulk of the Indian armed forces from the state

• The reciprocal obligations of the two sides as to the modalities of demilitarization, have been persistently sought to be confused by India over the past 70 years almost as to mislead the world into believing that the obligation of withdrawal devolves on Pakistan unilaterally. A reference to the provisions of Part II of the resolution of 13 August, 1948 and the elucidations given by the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan to the Government of Pakistan, established beyond any possibility of dispute the reciprocal nature of the undertaking given by the two sides to withdraw their armed forces from the state of Jammu and Kashmir

Indians refused to accept any demilitarization plan proposed by the UN (they rejected eleven such plans) and hence Truce Agreement could not be concluded. So, the Commission never notified Pakistan to begin withdrawing its forces. Pakistan had made it clear to the UN that it was ready to withdraw its troops as soon as the Commission notified it, Pakistan went a step further and told the UN that it was ready to withdraw its troops in favor of UN troops regardless of Indian reaction to such a proposal ...

===

As for "Terrorism",
No, Kashmiri Freedom Struggle is not terrorism....

The principle of self-determination has been internationally recognized as distinct from terrorism in Almaty Declaration of 2002, and even India itself is a party to that declaration.

 

[313ghazi]

it would be quite a big undertaking, a project of that scale, to ship equipment to India proper, and then have it move overground from Bombay etc all the way to your jihad HQ, good luck with it.


we'll have to wait and see if Pulwalma was just the first of many.

rest assured, a very unfair and disproportionate response will ensue.



just flatten entire villages then, but like the shiningt example the Pakistan Army has shown in their operaton zarb e azb..

we too, will humanely evacuate all the innocent civvies.


That duplicity seems to have caught up with you lot now, hasn't it ?

You have a grand total of JEERO countries supporting Pakistan on Kashmir, not the Al Sauds, not the Iranian mullahs, not even China.. nobody.

We call it Karma.


I never spoke of India escalating anything.

Terror attacks in Delhi and Mumbai is a worst case scenario, the gloves will come off and it will not be nice.

Just to be clear, we're NOT talking about a direct military conflict between India and Pakistan here, just a scenario where the Pak military and intel decides to take this pesky jihadi problem to middle east levels

then all bets are off,. jihadis will lose, andthere's a million other aspects to this so just be realistic as best we can

Kashmiri freedom fighters killed at least 5 of your occupying forces today. Did it make the evening news?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

"The principle of self-determination has been internationally recognized as distinct from terrorism in Almaty Declaration of 2002, and even India itself is a party to that declaration."

India undermines its own stance on Kashmir. There's a surprise.​

 

[halupridol]

Yes, India and Pakistan are both waiting for the 'right time', meanwhile, the Kashmiris continue to suffer.

And Kashmir's freedom struggle is legitimate. The right to self determination is a binding principle of International law. So, it's not Jihad vs India as you try to portray.. It's 'International Law' vs (the so called) "World's Largest Democracy."

Oh dont start wid kashmiri suffering.
Look out of ur window, u'll see thousands suffering,begging, dying like animals.Pakistanis still voted Incompetent hukmarans whenever they got the chance,why,,coz it suited them.if that didnt bother u,, why do u expect it of others.
As far as legitimacy goes,,, nobody gives a damn. U shud understand by now that countries r cunning n selfish in nature n this jihad vs India ain't going to get them freedom(whatever that means,,, what exactly they want in this freedom, ,maybe eat cow n kill hindus, other thn that what)
Again no point invoking international law,,, asli international law is power n it seems it's on our side.

 

[-=virus=-]

Kashmiri freedom fighters killed at least 5 of your occupying forces today. Did it make the evening news?

and tomorrow the occupying forces will kill 10 freedom fighters.

you seen that famous pic of commander Burhan and all his friends posing like bosses, right ? How many remain ?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Oh dont start wid kashmiri suffering.
Look out of ur window, u'll see thousands suffering,begging, dying like animals.Pakistanis still voted Incompetent hukmarans whenever they got the chance,why,,coz it suited them.if that didnt bother u,, why do u expect it of others.
As far as legitimacy goes,,, nobody gives a damn. U shud understand by now that countries r cunning n selfish in nature n this jihad vs India ain't going to get them freedom(whatever that means,,, what exactly they want in this freedom, ,maybe eat cow n kill hindus, other thn that what)
Again no point invoking international law,,, asli international law is power n it seems it's on our side.

Was power on your side on 27th Feb?

 

[halupridol]

Who is asking for Rafale, new sniper rifles, bombs, etc.?

India got money,, army wants in.
But still they haven't overthrown govts.
Matlab lalach apke army se ab bhi kum hai.