Border Guards of Bangladesh denies influx to northeast from Bangladesh

[Hammer-fist]

It is a sad fact that over 500 fishermen were killed by the Sri Lankan navy in the past three decades allegedly for intruding in to the Sri Lankan waters.

Read more at: Fishermen brutally attacked by Lankan Navy : South, News - India Today


Let's say these fishermen crossed over into "Sri Lankan territory" (notice I am not carrying an anti-Indian bias and automatically assuming the Sri Lankan version is true, the Sri Lankans are far from angels themselves) then should be they killed?

Does: Crossing in to the wrong side of the water = death sentence?

Murder, robbery, rape in many countries yes, but illegal border crossing?

Do you support the Sri Lankan murder of Indian Tamil fishermen for straying a few yards/miles in to "Sri Lankan" waters?

 

[arp2041]

Read more at: Fishermen brutally attacked by Lankan Navy : South, News - India Today


Let's say these fishermen crossed over into "Sri Lankan territory" (notice I am not carrying an anti-Indian bias and automatically assuming the Sri Lankan version is true, the Sri Lankans are far from angels themselves) then should be they killed?

Does: Crossing in to the wrong side of the water = death sentence?

Murder, robbery, rape in many countries yes, but illegal border crossing?

Do you support the Sri Lankan murder of Indian Tamil fishermen for straying a few yards/miles in to "Sri Lankan" waters?

There is a difference in crossing maritime borders & crossing land borders u can't compare the two. In maritime border a civilian doesn't know exactly where he is, he can't ascertain if he is really is in his country's borders or have crossed over, sometimes the maritime borders are such that u can't really judge where r u, like borders of 3-4 nations intersecting into one. That's why u hear the news always that hundred's of fisherman of India caught by Pakistan since they were on there side of the border & vice-versa, while u rarely hear the incident of that happening on Indo-Pak land border & if that do happen than u hear that Army/BSF kills the person crossing the LOC, so if BSF does same with the Indo-Pak international border/LOC, than i see no case in doing it differently in case of BD border (sorry, but i am just being practical).

But the land borders case is different where a civilian can easily judge where he is by looking at the pillars or fencing or other things, there are instances of people crossing the border from the fence (don't they know that they are going into foreign territory??).

I don't support the SL action since there navy cannot prove that if they entered knowingly or just because they couldn't know if they have crossed borders. That's why GOI is taking steps to provide fishermen of India with a GPS system.

 

[Hammer-fist]

I don't support the SL action since there navy cannot prove that if they entered knowingly or just because they couldn't know if they have crossed borders.

1. So if Sri Lanka could prove that Indian fishermen entered their waters intentionally and with full knowledge, then it would be ok for Sri Lanka to kill them?

You would support SL action in that case, but don't since it's not clear the Indian fishermen know they're in Sri Lankan waters?

2. So if an

a: Unarmed

b: Non-combatant

c: Civilian

crosses a land border illegally he should be killed?

Illegal border crossing is a de facto fellony which carries the death sentence?

 

[Hammer-fist]

Let me state if an Indian fisherman crossed in to Sri Lankan water I would not support his killing/murder and would condemn it.

If the same fisherman went in to Sri Lankan water and yelled "I'm in Sri Lankan water and I know it", and was killed for doing so I would not support that and totally condemn it.

If the same fisherman went in to Sri Lankan water and yelled "I'm in Sri Lankan water and I know it" and then hurled abuse at the Sri Lankan navy, swore at them and taunted them and was killed for doing so, I would not support his murder.

Why?

1. He is a civilian

2. He is unarmed

3. Most importantly illegal border trespass does not carry a death sentence.

 

[Spring Onion]

Read more at: Fishermen brutally attacked by Lankan Navy : South, News - India Today


Let's say these fishermen crossed over into "Sri Lankan territory" (notice I am not carrying an anti-Indian bias and automatically assuming the Sri Lankan version is true, the Sri Lankans are far from angels themselves) then should be they killed?

Does: Crossing in to the wrong side of the water = death sentence?

Murder, robbery, rape in many countries yes, but illegal border crossing?

Do you support the Sri Lankan murder of Indian Tamil fishermen for straying a few yards/miles in to "Sri Lankan" waters?

Nobody supports such actions but only INDIANS do support when it comes to nationals of other countries.

 

[arp2041]

@Hammer-fist, Mate u are breaking my words & using it whichever way it suits u. Let's be completely practical here, these are rules made by countries world over (Not Me, nor India), if u want to go to some other country (for whatever reasons), there are legal ways for it, but if u travel to any other country illegally than u are at the mercy of that country's law or actions (there is no running away from that), if the country thinks that it has to close the case once & for all or whether it wants humanly approach it's that country's wish, u can't say a word since u intentionally commited a crime, India/BSF have to resort to ways of killing since as i told earlier it takes years to prove if the person accused is a Bangladeshi or not & whenever it do happen, ur country simply don't want to take them back. (Just my Practical opinion, JMPO )

also i would request u to look at my earlier posts also.

 

[Hammer-fist]

I don't think I was breaking your words.

I was pointing out that it seemed to me that in effect that is what you are saying.

You seem to be saying "illegal border crossing can carry a de facto death sentence".

You can phrase it whatever you want and use nice phrases like "country's law or actions" but that is what you are saying.

I totally condemn it.

Just for everyone, the Indian navy apparently has no problem with Indian fishermen being killed by Sri Lankans.

Now ironically I, a Bangladeshi, support Indians in this i.e. Indians should not be killed and in my view this is murder.
The Indian navy however do not give a damn about Indian (Tamil) life, so at least they are not hypocritical in this regard.

Sri Lankan Navy has been attacking, shooting and killing Tamil Nadu fishermen for well over a decade. At least 77 have been killed [Reference 1] and many more injured. Attacks, shootings and killings continue in spite of repeated pleas from Tamil Nadu State chief ministers to the Indian government and promises from Indian prime ministers. Now senior Indian government officials "justify" and downplay the killings of Tamil Nadu fishermen. In this article we present quotes from statements by a Indian Navy Commodore, a Navy Vice-Admiral, National Security Advisor, External Affairs Minister (Foreign Minister) and Prime Minister.

....

Also, the Indian External Affairs Minister seems to justify the violent attacks (including hundreds of killings) if they happened in Sri Lankan waters. If I go into my neighbor's property and pick a mango, does my neighbor have the right to beat me up or even kill me? Absolutely not. He may call the police and have me arrested. If he beats me, he would be the one police would arrest. If he kills me, he would be the one who would spend long years in prison. We would have no complaint if the Sri Lankan Navy arrests the fishermen and puts them on trial in Sri Lanka. When Sri Lankan fishermen stray into Indian waters, Indian Navy and Coast Guard arrest them. That is the right thing to do.

Indian External Affairs Minister S M Krishna's implicit justification of Sri Lankan attacks on our fishermen in Sri Lankan waters (even if it is true) is deplorable. As we stated in Section 1 of this article, when Pakistani Navy killed a North Indian fisherman in February 2006, Indian Government acted immediately and registered diplomatic protest to Pakistan. That killing was not justified on the grounds that the north Indian fisherman was killed in Pakistani waters. No one asked Pakistan if the attack took place in Indian waters or Pakistani waters.


You will also notice that there is no criticism of Sri Lankan Navy either in Commodore Van Halteren's remarks or in External Affairs Minister Krishna's statement. These statements are signaling Sri Lankan Government that they have no need to fear Indian retaliation, financially, diplomatically or militarily. All that the Sri Lankan Navy has to say is that the attack took place on their side of the International Maritime Boundary Line (IMBL).

Since their own Indian government refuses to protect them and throws them at the mercy of Sri Lankan Navy, may God give a merciful heart to Sri Lankan naval officers. This is the prayer of this daughter of a fisherman...

Vice-Admiral K N Sushil said, "When fishermen straying into Sri Lankan area are stopped by the Sri Lankan Navy, they start running out of fear of being caught, leading to suspicion. As there was reported movement of Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelem (LTTE) cadre in the sea, the Sri Lankan Naval force has no other option, but to fire, as per the job given to them, for that matter any force."

Our Response: This is an outrageous statement by Vice-Admiral K N Sushil. He is justifying the attacks as the Sri Lankan Navy doing its job. Also he is painting a scenario that is entirely different from what is happening. Let me explain. Here are some reports of the attacks from mainstream news sources.

India Justifies Sri Lankan Navy Killing Tamil Nadu Fishermen

 

[Hammer-fist]

The fact is if Pakistan did what Sri Lanka did then Vice-Admiral K N Sushil would not be saying "the Pakistani Naval force has no other option, but to fire, as per the job given to them, for that matter any force."

It is ok if Sri Lanka does it but not Pakistan (or Bangladesh).

Also north Indian blood (Gujarati) is precious whereas south Indian blood (Tamil) is worthless.

Once we read theses news reports of several attacks during 2010, we see that the general mode of attack is the same in each of these incidents. Sri Lankan Navy surrounds or comes close to fishing boats of Tamilnadu fishermen. Then shoot at them or board fishermen's boats and beat them. These are not cases of shooting at fleeing/escaping fishermen as Vice-Admiral K N Sushil said. The fishermen have been surrounded and Sri Lankan Navy personnel have boarded the boats. What is the need or rationale for beating, robbing and destroying property? If they suspect the fishermen to be LTTE, the proper thing to do is take them into custody, file charges in Sri Lanka and inform India that fishermen claiming to be Indian citizens are in their custody. That is what the Indian Government and senior officials like Vice-Admiral K N Sushil should demand. Instead they are justifying Sri Lankan Navy's attacks on our fishermen. I have to again bring up the 2006 Pakistani Navy incident mentioned in Reference 1. Indian government or senior Indian navy commanders did not justify that Pakistan was shooting at fleeing north Indian fisherman suspecting him to be a terrorist. Instead India said that what Pakistan did was wrong. Why a different tune when the fishermen killed are from south India?

India Justifies Sri Lankan Navy Killing Tamil Nadu Fishermen

So Sri Lankans go to Indian ships and beat and kill Indian fishermen.

India is a nuclear power, a BRIC state, with Brahmos missiles and a 1 million strong state but Sri Lankans can beat up and kill Indians.

Oh sorry, I forgot these are Indians but the "wrong type" of "Indians" they are just dark-skinned Dravidian Tamils and not lighter-skinned northern Gujaratis.


5

. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh

On this same January 22, 2011 meeting with Vaiko, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh did not condemn the killings either. Instead he downplayed the killings. He told Vaiko that Pakistan had also arrested Gujarati (north Indian) fishermen. Vaiko pointed out that Pakistan did not shoot at them (Actually there was one instance of shooting in which a Gujarati fisherman was killed and Indian External Affairs Ministry immediately called Pakistan's Deputy High Commissioner to the ministry and registered a protest. No one said that the Gujarati fisherman might have crossed the IMBL into Pakistani waters. No one said that Sri Lanka has killed so many Tamil Nadu fishermen, so this one Pakistan killing is not a big deal. Pakistan understood that India was taking the matter seriously and would not tolerate further killings. In case of Sri Lanka and Tamil Nadu fishermen, everyone from senior Navy commanders, National Security Adviser (NSA), external affairs minister and the prime minister are justifying or downplaying Sri Lankan Navy killings. So Sri Lanka takes it that India is not taking the killings seriously and continues with the attacks with impunity.

Finally the Prime Minister assured Vaiko that India would take up the issue with Sri Lanka SERIOUSLY to ensure that such attacks were not repeated. Sri Lankan Navy is attacking Tamil Nadu fishermen for over two decades and has killed at the least 77 fishermen [Reference 1]. Why was the issue not taken up SERIOUSLY so far? Is Tamil blood cheap?

India Justifies Sri Lankan Navy Killing Tamil Nadu Fishermen

 

[Hammer-fist]

“These horrific images of torture on video show what rights groups have long documented: that India’s Border Security Force is out of control,” said Meenakshi Ganguly, South Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The Indian government is well aware of killings and torture at the border, but has never prosecuted the troops responsible. This video provides a clear test case of whether the security forces are above the law in India.”


In December 2010, Human Rights Watch, together with Banglar Manabadhikar Suraksha Mancha (MASUM), a Kolkatta-based nongovernmental organization that posted the video, and Dhaka-based Odhikar, published “‘Trigger Happy’: Excessive Use of Force by Indian Troops at the Bangladesh Border.” This report documented numerous cases of indiscriminate use of force, arbitrary detention, torture, and killings by the BSF, and highlighted the failure of the Indian government to conduct adequate investigations or prosecute troops responsible for abuses. It showed that the BSF routinely abuses both Bangladeshi and Indian nationals residing in the border area. After the report’s release, the Indian government ordered an end to the use of lethal force except in cases of self-defense. While the number of killings decreased, allegations of killings and torture have continued.

India: Prosecute Security Forces for Torture | Human Rights Watch

Meenakshi Ganguly an Indian is saying that the BSF are out of control and Indian organizations have said the BSF abuse Indians too.

However this will probably be rejected as ISI-Jamati etc propaganda with Meenakshi Ganguly obviously being a hardcore Jamati despite having a Hindu Bengali name (Ganguly as in Sourav Ganguly the former Indian cricket captain).


I am opposed to illegal killings, torture by scum be it:

Bangladeshi/Indian or Sri Lankan.

 

[arp2041]

You seem to be saying "illegal border crossing can carry a de facto death sentence".

You can phrase it whatever you want and use nice phrases like "country's law or actions" but that is what you are saying

Yes buddy, if u want me to say that than i'll be frank, yes i m saying this. I am just being Practical while u are being Idealistic & whenever i will give my argument, u will rebuke it by being Idealist, always being Idealistic is treated as on the right side, so i will lose

But remember one thing This World is Too Practical to be Idealist. It's one thing to praise Gandhi on his non-violence philosophy & totally different to practice/follow it. So i put an end to my argument here

 

[Hammer-fist]

Meenaksh Ganguly, an Indian Hindu Bengali and no doubt a member of the ISI and a Jamati, and also Al-Qaeda member who hates India and Hindus according to PDF Indians, so whose documentation of BSF terrorism and atrocities against both Bangladeshis and Indians cannot be believed.

 

[Mig-35]

Well if no one is crossing the border, then why do you cry for all the so called Bangladeshis that get shot by BSF while illegally crossing the border? They are probably Indians getting shot then

BSF shots at those who gets close to the border fence. You see, they are farmers and they have their land near the fence. However, BSF assumes they are there to cross the border and shoots...

Also, there are a few miscreants those do the illegal business bribing the BSF and when bribe amount is not upto BSF demands, BSF then shoots one of them to show the consequences of such to other miscreants. This is done by BSF to makes sure money reaches their pockets in the future... as well.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Yes buddy, if u want me to say that than i'll be frank, yes i m saying this. I am just being Practical while u are being Idealistic & whenever i will give my argument, u will rebuke it by being Idealist, always being Idealistic is treated as on the right side, so i will lose

But remember one thing This World is Too Practical to be Idealist. It's one thing to praise Gandhi on his non-violence philosophy & totally different to practice/follow it. So i put an end to my argument here

You have come out directly and said you support the murder of unarmed civilians who have attacked no one.

Remember one thing, karma is very much a reality.

The atrocities that both Indian and Sri Lankan forces carry out against civilians (regardless of race & religion) will come back to haunt them, but with interest.

 

[eastwatch]

Mind ur language buddy, if half of the people of India defecate in open than u defecate on PDF, India is not a beggar country, we don't cross illegally into any other country for the sake of employment or better living, yes we go to America & EU but with full legality & with a valid VISA, i don't think u know the meaning of a VISA since u just cross into our side of the border as if u are walking in the park, i tell u what a VISA is, it is the legal document that lets u travel to other country without the fear of BSF bullets hitting ur chest while crossing or hitting ur back while running.

Here in Japan and in west europe and USA there are millions of Indians who are without visa and try to get political shelter by falsifying documents. But, you are talking big about your superpoor country. India is a shame and Indian lifestyle is a shame. Do not brag about India. We know what it is and what it is not, the dirtiest people are all living in a planet called India.

 

[arp2041]

Here in Japan and in west europe and USA there are millions of Indians who are without visa and try to get political shelter by falsifying documents. But, you are talking big about your superpoor country. India is a shame and Indian lifestyle is a shame. Do not brag about India. We know what it is and what it is not, the dirtiest people are all living in a planet called India.

I had replied u with facts, it's better u reciprocate, if u don't have facts to show than pls don't reply to me. Also Japan is not ur country so u don't have to brag about it either.