Bomb Blast in Crowded Daata Darbar (Shrine), Lahore

[DaRk WaVe]

The state of denial continues....

• “No Muslim can dare attack the shrine of Data Sahib.
  This is a conspiracy which cannot deter the devotees,” said Suleiman who regularly visits the shrine to pay homage to the saint.
  
• They blamed followers of a certain sect for the attack

 

[sparklingway]

No more religious inflammation. Religious overtones are tolerated only until they don't become offensive, which they have become lately. Any violation will result in an extended suspension.

 

[Zillay_Khan]

Why was my post deleted when i just replied to the derogatary rants of emo girl, and it was wholly polite yet you have left here posts and she continues to rant, talk about female favouretism. How about some competence from the Mods

 

[Old School]

As usual there is no significant step has been taken by the security services while I am writing this post. We have no option but to prepare our tears for the next round of attack just like the one launched on Data Sahib. There is none to prevent the next attack as Allah wants it to happen ! The timing and place of attack are at the discretion of the terrorists. When that takes place , we will open another thread like this and express our grief. This will continue sadly ever after.

 

[Zillay_Khan]

It can stop if we all live upto our responsibilities, its stange that such things only started like in the last 20 years or less, Thats why people find it hard to belive that it is home grown it smells more like imported brand

 

[Bill Longley]

It can stop if we all live upto our responsibilities, its stange that such things only started like in the last 20 years or less, Thats why people find it hard to belive that it is home grown it smells more like imported brand

I agree we have to perform our responsibilities. for example we know who comes in our neighborhood, what kind of people live their and their ideological stand point. we all if act Like Pakistanies and inform Law and order agencies about suspicious people .we can defeat them.
its not a war which only army or police has to fight. its a war in which we all have to fight to save our state.
We have to make CPLC type support groups or volunteers and I can bet we will eliminate terror in months

secondly we must understand who is who before voteing any one. Some time our votes bring suffering to us

 

[sparklingway]

Why was my post deleted when i just replied to the derogatary rants of emo girl, and it was wholly polite yet you have left here posts and she continues to rant, talk about female favouretism. How about some competence from the Mods

Any responses to deleted posts are deleted. A post being deleted means it was crap and didn't deserve to be replied to.

Stop worrying about your post. Move to the real issue here.

 

[Zillay_Khan]

I agree we have to perform our responsibilities. for example we know who comes in our neighborhood, what kind of people live their and their ideological stand point. we all if act Like Pakistanies and inform Law and order agencies about suspicious people .we can defeat them.
its not a war which only army or police has to fight. its a war in which we all have to fight to save our state.
We have to make CPLC type support groups or volunteers and I can bet we will eliminate terror in months

secondly we must understand who is who before voteing any one. Some time our votes bring suffering to us

!00% I totally agree , first we need good honest politicians, and to bring them in we need a educated people , by dimishing corruption more money is put into the economy, in the same time our madaris need the same structure they had over 500 years ago when all subjects of the world were taught, they need funding with good facilities lik modern day schools, and we were the pioneers of science and medicine once we need that aspect back in all modes, open and national forums should be held , to defaeat and show the extremists that they have nothing to do with our nation or our faith. This can be done by the non muslim pakistanies also, afterall this is a national struggle, all of us can play a part even those living abroad,. IF we take a oath to implement this love for our nation in practice, in a mere few years we can get rid of this menace.

Remeber the befits of living in a democracy is that we can make our votes count. Just think pakistan pakistan and pakistan

 

[sparklingway]

!00% I totally agree , first we need good honest politicians, and to bring them in we need a educated people

Stop this educated people, honest politician crap. I hate listening to this elitist argument that has no real substance to it.

I guess I'll have to copy an earlier post of mine (which has gone some revision lately):-

We have an "educated" and self-righteous upper-middle and elite class that doesn't give a **** about this country in more than one ways.

Education is by no means a harbinger of change in our society at least. Education, as the process of formal teaching of knowledge would be called, has only created coward, obnoxious, apathetic, selfish, dishonest, self-righteous, exploitative, aimless, repulsive, tax evading moralists who claim being apolitical and apathetic to the state of affairs as being symbols of their righteousness and their greatness. The urban upper middle class represents the fading away of honesty, integrity, communal integration, social service and the general lack of apathy towards the state and its people. The upper middle class is a slap on the face of every farmer, every factory worker, every labourer and every true proletariat.

The farmers and peasants have shown far more dedication, far more honesty, far more political awareness and far more wisdom than the elites and their upper middle class cronies (which is us, most of the members on this forum). The rurals have lead small peasant movements of their own, only to be quashed by state power. The guns were fired on the orders of our own elites as the self-righteous upper middle class chose willingly to look away.

Change is possible only through a thoroughly thought through political ideology. And that requires not education but just basic knowledge and a willingness to learn and change. I've met dedicated farmers without any formal education teaching me the basics of Leninism that was taught to them by others, and reading the ideas themselves and debating it, they were able to coherently argue for change rather than mumble about bringing a revolution or throwing "corrupt" politicians away.

The problem isn't the rurals as most upper-middle classmen try to put it (being apologetic to their exploitation of the working class). The problem is Pakistan's apathetic elite class and upper middle class. Elites are apathetic across the world but an apathetic, self serving and morally corrupt upper middle class spells destruction. All historical revolutions have been led by the class (some resulting in their own violent overthrows later). In our case, the upper middle class seeks to maintain the class structure of society and tries to hide behind the "change" mantra all the time.

The problem is Pakistan's "educated" elite rather than our rurals. Our rurals toil day and night to feed the bellies of their urban overlords and they have remained loyal to this country for the past 63 years, even when they were deprived off their land rights, forcefully and legislatively (the Federal Shariat Court declared all land reforms and ceilings on land holdings as being repungant to Islamic beliefs and hence unconstitutional - Qazalbash Waqf v. Chief Land Commissioner PLD 1990 SC 99). His right to land has been violated historically, first by the British who imported feudals into the region and then created others. Then the British resorted to handing out land for allegiance to the crown (with notable contribution from the soldiers of Rawalpindi Division). Since then, we tried to initiate land reforms thrice, all have been declared un-Islamic by the Federal Shariat Court and all decisions reversed. Land alloted was forcefully stolen back. Tenant-farming agreements have been violated by the self styled guardians of this country, farmers have been killed and tortured at the behest of an existing ruling class structure.

The upwardly mobile upper middle class is guilty of all these crimes, not just by association but rather by direct involvement. They are the apathetic wealthy elite. They are the ones who initiated the destruction of the public education sector with their kickbacked residentially housed private schools, they are the ones who run the industries and factories that churn out arensic and mercury into our drinking water, they are the ones who man the offices of the state that receive kickbacks, they are the bankers who oversee Loan Recovery Officers or as they are normally called goons who threaten and beat up and torture people in debt, they are the ones who evade all forms of taxation, they are the ones who are the new aristocracy, the new landed elite by virtue of their association with the state (both the colour Khaki and the GOR bureaucratic elite).

This country does not need the novel "educated" elite. This country needs the rule of its true heirs, the working class of Pakistan. I personally hate the class where I was born in, and continue to hate my presence in it. It is a class of shameless apathetic people who label the problems of the country on others when they are the ones who create its problems.

 

[Zillay_Khan]

Stop this educated people, honest politician crap. I hate listening to this elitist argument that has no real substance to it.

I guess I'll have to copy an earlier post of mine (which has gone some revision lately):-

We have an "educated" and self-righteous upper-middle and elite class that doesn't give a **** about this country in more than one ways.

Education is by no means a harbinger of change in our society at least. Education, as the process of formal teaching of knowledge would be called, has only created coward, obnoxious, apathetic, selfish, dishonest, self-righteous, exploitative, aimless, repulsive, tax evading moralists who claim being apolitical and apathetic to the state of affairs as being symbols of their righteousness and their greatness. The urban upper middle class represents the fading away of honesty, integrity, communal integration, social service and the general lack of apathy towards the state and its people. The upper middle class is a slap on the face of every farmer, every factory worker, every labourer and every true proletariat.

The farmers and peasants have shown far more dedication, far more honesty, far more political awareness and far more wisdom than the elites and their upper middle class cronies (which is us, most of the members on this forum). The rurals have lead small peasant movements of their own, only to be quashed by state power. The guns were fired on the orders of our own elites as the self-righteous upper middle class chose willingly to look away.

Change is possible only through a thoroughly thought through political ideology. And that requires not education but just basic knowledge and a willingness to learn and change. I've met dedicated farmers without any formal education teaching me the basics of Leninism that was taught to them by others, and reading the ideas themselves and debating it, they were able to coherently argue for change rather than mumble about bringing a revolution or throwing "corrupt" politicians away.

The problem isn't the rurals as most upper-middle classmen try to put it (being apologetic to their exploitation of the working class). The problem is Pakistan's apathetic elite class and upper middle class. Elites are apathetic across the world but an apathetic, self serving and morally corrupt upper middle class spells destruction. All historical revolutions have been led by the class (some resulting in their own violent overthrows later). In our case, the upper middle class seeks to maintain the class structure of society and tries to hide behind the "change" mantra all the time.

The problem is Pakistan's "educated" elite rather than our rurals. Our rurals toil day and night to feed the bellies of their urban overlords and they have remained loyal to this country for the past 63 years, even when they were deprived off their land rights, forcefully and legislatively (the Federal Shariat Court declared all land reforms and ceilings on land holdings as being repungant to Islamic beliefs and hence unconstitutional - Qazalbash Waqf v. Chief Land Commissioner PLD 1990 SC 99). His right to land has been violated historically, first by the British who imported feudals into the region and then created others. Then the British resorted to handing out land for allegiance to the crown (with notable contribution from the soldiers of Rawalpindi Division). Since then, we tried to initiate land reforms thrice, all have been declared un-Islamic by the Federal Shariat Court and all decisions reversed. Land alloted was forcefully stolen back. Tenant-farming agreements have been violated by the self styled guardians of this country, farmers have been killed and tortured at the behest of an existing ruling class structure.

The upwardly mobile upper middle class is guilty of all these crimes, not just by association but rather by direct involvement. They are the apathetic wealthy elite. They are the ones who initiated the destruction of the public education sector with their kickbacked residentially housed private schools, they are the ones who run the industries and factories that churn out arensic and mercury into our drinking water, they are the ones who man the offices of the state that receive kickbacks, they are the bankers who oversee Loan Recovery Officers or as they are normally called goons who threaten and beat up and torture people in debt, they are the ones who evade all forms of taxation, they are the ones who are the new aristocracy, the new landed elite by virtue of their association with the state (both the colour Khaki and the GOR bureaucratic elite).

This country does not need the novel "educated" elite. This country needs the rule of its true heirs, the working class of Pakistan. I personally hate the class where I was born in, and continue to hate my presence in it. It is a class of shameless apathetic people who label the problems of the country on others when they are the ones who create its problems.

Im not talking about the elite or the middleclass. Infact I mean the the Farmer, the villager the people who have passion for this land who gave blood and sweat it is them with this spirit that deserve the education, which unfortunetly is denied to many, that is what can bring real change. Beacuse when they have that , they will vote with a intellectual capacity and the family party system can finally fall in its knees , allowing new capable faces to come in the political arena.

 

[Zillay_Khan]

Change is possible only through a thoroughly thought through political ideology. And that requires not education but just basic knowledge and a willingness to learn and change. I've met dedicated farmers without any formal education teaching me the basics of Leninism that was taught to them by others, and reading the ideas themselves and debating it, they were able to coherently argue for change rather than mumble about bringing a revolution or throwing "corrupt" politicians away.

Fcat is we do have such politicians and knwobody is talking about a reveloution, it is fact that the circumstances of people never change by themselves unless people change to accomodate them. Clearly there is a problem which needs to be identified and solved.

 

[Old School]

The problem is Pakistan's "educated" elite rather than our rurals. Our rurals toil day and night to feed the bellies of their urban overlords and they have remained loyal to this country for the past 63 years, even when they were deprived off their land rights, forcefully and legislatively (the Federal Shariat Court declared all land reforms and ceilings on land holdings as being repungant to Islamic beliefs and hence unconstitutional - Qazalbash Waqf v. Chief Land Commissioner PLD 1990 SC 99)

Since the British left , nothing has changed significantly for the rural peasants. They are still the largest contributor to the national economy while the most neglected people. My family which has traditional farming in the country side , continue to do the same as 300 years ago. Urban middle class eat the ghee and ata produced by us but consider us to be irrelevant.

 

[Zillay_Khan]

Since the British left , nothing has changed significantly for the rural peasants. They are still the largest contributor to the national economy while the most neglected people. My family which has traditional farming in the country side , continue to do the same as 300 years ago. Urban middle class eat the ghee and ata produced by us but consider us to be irrelevant.

That is indeed trajic

 

[sparklingway]

Im not talking about the elite or the middleclass. Infact I mean the the Farmer, the villager the people who have passion for this land who gave blood and sweat it is them with this spirit that deserve the education, which unfortunetly is denied to many, that is what can bring real change. Beacuse when they have that , they will vote with a intellectual capacity and the family party system can finally fall in its knees , allowing new capable faces to come in the political arena.

You should demand better accountability and the pathetic bunch of politicians will vanish. As long as you do not do your nation the honour of walking to the polling station, standing in line with "ordinary" people (as there might be no "jananay wala" who will break the queue for you like the way all upper middle class people are treated at NSRCs, Passport Offices, Traffic Police Offices and so on..) and trying to at least vote your way in.

As long as you continue to blanket cover "corrupt politician" rather than giving a policy input, demanding accountability from your local legislators, demanding to meet your legislator for effective debate frequently and unless you create an environment of democratic norms within the social structure, there is no hope.

The best example of "selection" rather than "election" is our schools. From the lowest of grades, elections are held across the world. The best of functioning democracies have election for student councils as early as grade 1. In our culture, the overlords who are the teachers and the principal, who beat up the kids oftenly as well, select a "class prefect" to maintain their dictatorship of silence in their absence and report the names of the "defaulters" to them, teaching kids that snitching pays off. The "school headboys" stuff is also selected rather than elected. The people "selected" are always done so for their docility, their conformity with set standards, their obedience and their "discipline". Why do you wonder our student politics has been so violent? Because there has never been any progressive student politics before undergraduate level. If you have people participating in school elections since their early days, some of them will become passionate about general politics, learn the tricks of the trade, and know how to run a council by the time they reach university. The whole school system is undemocratic. The word "democracy" is demonized by our society and our textbooks alike.

Since you have no social structure of democratic debate and absolutely no importance is imparted to democratic norms and institutions of authority and the whole social structure is that of sycophancy, patronage and allegiance to overlords besides the obsession with glorified personel dictating the will of the state through the barrel ; then it's no wonder that we're always yearning for "benevolent dictators" to "discipline the masses".

 

[Zillay_Khan]

You should demand better accountability and the pathetic bunch of politicians will vanish. As long as you do not do your nation the honour of walking to the polling station, standing in line with "ordinary" people (as there might be no "jananay wala" who will break the queue for you like the way all upper middle class people are treated at NSRCs, Passport Offices, Traffic Police Offices and so on..) and trying to at least vote your way in.

As long as you continue to blanket cover "corrupt politician" rather than giving a policy input, demanding accountability from your local legislators, demanding to meet your legislator for effective debate frequently and unless you create an environment of democratic norms within the social structure, there is no hope.

The best example of "selection" rather than "election" is our schools. From the lowest of grades, elections are held across the world. The best of functioning democracies have election for student councils as early as grade 1. In our culture, the overlords who are the teachers and the principal, who beat up the kids oftenly as well, select a "class prefect" to maintain their dictatorship of silence in their absence and report the names of the "defaulters" to them, teaching kids that snitching pays off. The "school headboys" stuff is also selected rather than elected. The people "selected" are always done so for their docility, their conformity with set standards, their obedience and their "discipline". Why do you wonder our student politics has been so violent? Because there has never been any progressive student politics before undergraduate level. If you have people participating in school elections since their early days, some of them will become passionate about general politics, learn the tricks of the trade, and know how to run a council by the time they reach university. The whole school system is undemocratic. The word "democracy" is demonized by our society and our textbooks alike.

Since you have no social structure of democratic debate and absolutely no importance is imparted to democratic norms and institutions of authority and the whole social structure is that of sycophancy, patronage and allegiance to overlords besides the obsession with glorified personel dictating the will of the state through the barrel ; then it's no wonder that we're always yearning for "benevolent dictators" to "discipline the masses".

what we need buddy is that man in the white pagri on your pic LOL