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Bomb Blast in Crowded Daata Darbar (Shrine), Lahore


Ah brother, they are not the only ones....I want to hear the likes of Qazi Hussian, Fazal Ul Rahman etc come out and condemn this. All I can say don't hold your breath.

As for any press that remotely seem to be sympathetic to these devils, they should be boycotted and spat upon. But seriously I bet you will still get some closet terrorist supporters say that somehow the Lal Masjid episode drove them to do this.
 
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AoA
The money may be petro dollar but it came to pakistan with blessing of our leadership.The saudi's didnt put a gun to our head to accept it. Not sure about now but during Zia's time this all money had the blessing from the top. So no need blaming the world when the problem is within pakistan.the idealogy is more dangerous than the money.

Not just Zia, ZA Bhutto played a very destructive role in pampering religious extremists as well. Lets not forget Bhutto's contribution to legalizing open discrimination and intolerance towards the Ahmadi community - and once you justify discrimination against one community, then you make it far easier to keep extending that definition towards others you disagree with, and keep increasing the level of discrimination, and soon those you disagree with are 'wajib-e-qatl'.
 
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People are out in the streets protesting, there is firing in the streets and clashes are being reported.

These people should learn from the last attack where the targeted group mutedly cleaned the place of attack and restarted their worship on the same day.

Protesting like this will not achieve anything, I know its frustrating but the correct action is being taken.
 
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And the madness continues. What we need is low-level special forces ops in both Karachi and Punjab to flush out the terrorists who have escaped operations in FATA. RAW handlers of some of the terrorists groups need to be targeted in Afghanistan as well. This cancer is obviously causing serious problem for our country and the sooner we get tough on these animals the better.

You don't need special forces or the Army in Lahore, Karachi or Peshawar for that matter. What you need is a well equipped, trained and dedicated police force free from political interference in going after these scum and their sympathizers.
 
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Some arguments for philosophy's sake:

1) How different is it from feoticide? According to my catholic friends, not at all. Should we cry on aborted babies as much as over these people?

2) Is this helping the cause of population control among problematic societies?

3) Everybody dies, and almost none while wishing to. Is a dramatic death like this worth admiration compared to a dying after having been attached to machines for months?

4) The risk of dying in fireball at a shrine may make shrine-goers stop and think about the stay-safe-at-home alternative, and might deter some people from an obvious shirk. Isn't this a worthwhile byproduct?

5) Rampant bombings and other forms of terrorism have opened up newer career paths for the youths. How will this socially impact us?

6) Some of us might find killing fun and quite likable, though evidently the posters above me don't seem to be from this lot. When the proportion of killo-philes exceeds a certain percentage, should the state, in the spirit of democracy, legalize it?
 
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The figure of the martyred has reached nearly 40 people and much more injured.

May Allah give peace to their souls as well as strength to their families to bare this tragic loss of loved ones, Ameen.
 
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Some arguments for philosophy's sake:

1) How different is it from feoticide? According to my catholic friends, not at all. Should we cry on aborted babies as much as over these people?

2) Is this helping the cause of population control among problematic societies?

3) Everybody dies, and almost none while wishing to. Is a dramatic death like this worth admiration compared to a dying after having been attached to machines for months?

4) The risk of dying in fireball at a shrine may make shrine-goers stop and think about the stay-safe-at-home alternative, and might deter some people from an obvious shirk. Isn't this a worthwhile byproduct?

5) Rampant bombings and other forms of terrorism have opened up newer career paths for the youths. How will this socially impact us?

6) Some of us might find killing fun and quite likable, though evidently the posters above me don't seem to be from this lot. When the proportion of killo-philes exceeds a certain percentage, should the state, in the spirit of democracy, legalize it?

Can we stick with the topic please. Raise the issue in another thread.
 
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The political leadership, Federal and Provincial, does take much of the blame (in the present) in that they have not formulated and implemented effective counter-terrorism policies. There is a need for the FIA and IB to be made autonomous (appoint the DG's through a balanced parliamentary committee) and for significant expansion and capacity building of this force to take on terrorism and inter-provincial crime. Some of the elite force/Quick Reaction Squads need to be seconded to the FIA, since they will primarily be utilized in Counter-terrorism and violent cases that should come under the purview of such an FIA.

Beyond that there is a need to stop 'negotiating' with the Madrassa's and set up a deadline for compliance and regulation of all Madaris with government set minimum guidelines. These madaris have possibly millions of people studying in them, and the government cannot afford to ignore and not regulate institutions that potentially impact such a large number of Pakistanis.

But improving law enforcement and domestic intelligence is the key here, and that is not going to happen so long as the politicians at both the Federal and provincial level control the institutions that would most effectively combat terrorists, extremists and their sympathizers and supporters (some very powerful), and refuse to make them autonomous lest their own crimes are found out.

Of course, a comprehensive policy needs to be established but this chaos, utter chaos where a number of groups, some very organized, most having a very flexible structure and some offshoots with some even autonomous groups operating as terror outfits in the country has never been seen anywhere in the world.

No other country faced a challenge so severe where there were so many different offshoots targeting the state and people.

Secondly, even though we like to say that the nation has a definitive stance against terror and people are resolute against it, it goes without saying that there's an utter lack of rational opinion amongst the people as to what is the right way to handle this. Case in point being the drone attacks. The US and other independent organizations/think tanks seem to say that they have a very high success rate, the right wing media has generated so much negativity on this (not out rightly unnecessary though) that people somehow believe that stopping drone attacks will stop the waves of suicide bombings. IK, a whole sidelined political lot and many a people hold this view. In actuality even if this works, this would mean that the targets were in reality militant groups with radical ideas and beliefs who we'll be tolerating.

Thirdly, an utter lack of organizational presence in the regions where the whole mess has emanated from, both historically and present as well. The regions have remained lawless, there is still significant presence of these "elements", otherwise we wouldn't have been seeing this and however we want to portray the locals as patriotic Pakistanis, it seems that there's a huge mix of nationalities in the militants out there. Intelligence and law enforcement presence has been weak at best throughout history and non-existent in most ways.

Fourthly, a political upheaval or instability stems chaos in other areas including economic instability and will never have a positive outlook on the militant scenario. At least we're seeing a consensus and resolution amongst the higher echelons of power although it would have been and should be much more befitting if they provided inputs to the policy rather than leaving much of it to the military, which you might not want to accept it, has hardly ever been successful in handling these areas. You might like to consider that the Soviet War was handled successfully but as we're seeing the fallout was never calculated and we got involved too deeply. Then we got in with the Taliban government and that didn't work out well either. Then we went in to fight in 2003 under pressure, didn't really fight much and signed peace treaties which did not work out as well. Comprehensively, the military has never been successful in the region. Short run success that results in a long term chaotic failure is no success. The higher echelons of power have owned the war and not run it, this has been a serious policy failure but this has been the outfall of our traditional political equation.

Fifthly, the point about PML-N and the whole SSP/LeT links, even I feel has been grossly exaggerated. They've relied on them for political support and will never tolerate an armed operation against them, but this somehow does not mean that the militant ideology has found sympathies beyond what we see in ordinarily religious Pakistanis as well. They should have and now must disown it, disconnect themselves and clean up this whole mess once and for all.

Sixthly, the FIA plays absolutely a very small role in all this. It has not been it's role and it is not supposed to play a CT role either. The institutional rivalries between the IB and ISI are to blame much for the lack of a coherent policy and ineffective investigations and lack of coordination with law enforcement. People in the IB, the higher ones who come through its hiring, still have bad blood between them and ISI since Musharraf Sb's picks for DG IB, Talat Munir and Bashir Wali inducted hundreds, if not dozens of retired ISI officials and the number of military guys on secondment sky rocketed as well. The two organizations have hardly ever been super-cooperative with each other, but the early part of the last decade sure messed up things a lot. Moreover, military apologists here always try to portray facts using the self-righteous and all-competitive image of the military rather than laying out the real facts. It is clear that the ISI has been more or less played not a very successful role (leaving aside the fact that the IB should be playing the domestic role). The lack of IB's presence in FATA (utterly no presence whatsoever) has been acknowledged by many as a problem but their domestic network is pretty strong and tight. The lack of information sharing about tip-offs and investigations plays into the hands of the militants. Suppose the IB got tipped off about a possible militant named Ahmad and ISI later gets tipped off about him but the surname Zubair. A better inter-agency coordination would yield results but the ground reality is that there's little or no cooperation other than the JIT's that are formed to investigate events. And even then we come to know that ISI had their own investigation, MI had their own, Punjab CID had their own and what not. Utter lack of cooperation also results from our societal factors of never trusting anybody and the whole selfishness amongst the men in power. Keep in mind also that although NACTA was formulated, the DG selected to be a very competent man (Tariq Pevez), but it is yet to become functional and nobody makes a secret out of the fact that the problem is that both and ISI and IB are unwilling to yield any practical power to it. Yes, a new organization would be weak but a joint collaboration can soon create (and would have created by now had they been sensible since the start) an effective functional joint counter-terrorism body. Also, the ISI is unwilling in any case to let go of it's position as the top most body in this hierarchy that has nothing but no established grounds rather the result of our decades of political manipulations. I happen to have a friend in NACTA, and frankly he's been dismayed with the progress and the reasons are clear.
 
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What is going to be the stupid reason this time around. When those low intensity bombs exploded in CD shops in Lahore, the reason given was that such things were corrupting our society. For the Ahmadies, it was that they are running the country behind closed doors and need to leave because they are not muslims.

If this is the way to oppose someone then I am sorry to say that these people can only be eradicated from our society.

I know some of you terrorist sympathizers would state that our 'brothers' ideology has been twisted and it can be reworked. It cannot be altered, that is the end of it, you are either with them or you are attacked in a cowardly manner.
 
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I know some of you terrorist sympathizers would state that our 'brothers' ideology has been twisted and it can be reworked. It cannot be altered, that is the end of it, you are either with them or you are attacked in a cowardly manner.

It has to be accepted that it is impossible to reconcile with the extremist of all elements. They aren't and will never seek a compromise (many hardline sects deem a compromise in anything as an utterly non-Islamic concept altogether). They'll murder you if you do not agree with them in entirety.

We would like to and should minimize collateral damage, the path of destruction, the fall outs and negatives on the society and the common people but we better accept that these will be necessary sacrifices and results of eliminating terror from our region.

PS: It seem weird because the necessary sacrifices word is just alongside the militant ideologies who deem ordinary people like us they kill everyday as necessary sacrifices in achieving their ideological goals.
 
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انّا للہ و انّا الیہ راجعون
Inna lillahi wa ina Ilahi rajioun

May the departed souls of innocent people rest in peace & may Allah grant the families of these victims sabr... Ameen
 
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Perhaps the best explanation of the Punjabi Taliban's structure came from Tariq Pervez, the newly appointed head of Pakistan's nascent National Counterterrorism Authority (NACTA): 'ideas, logistics, cash [comes] from the Gulf. Arab guys, mainly Egyptians and Saudis, are on hand to provide the chemistry. Veteran Punjabi extremists plot the attacks, while the Pakistan Taliban provides the martyrs.'

Defining the Punjabi Taliban Network - Harvard - Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs
 
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I truly believe what my father often told me that the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan and the subsequent events never ended. We are suffering to this day from what happened as the consequence of that invasion.

Sectarian violence, hatred of others remotely different and the aggressive form of religion become the norm.

Even in the 90's, afghanis used to protest against the government when talk of deportation were heard, they hijacked a bus once to force the government to allow them rights.

Currently the same people who were involved then are working to finally end all this, let's hope it ends well and the whole period is finally over.
 
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Okay, look at from the militants point of view. They live in their little scum hole for years, and then all of a sudden, they see PAF attacking their homes, followed by the PA clearing them out of it. Since they clearly can't fight them due to huge technological gap, they resort suicide bombings and such.

Now, how many times did I mention Islam in there? Religion has been used throughout history as a justification but is rarely the sole cause of things. Look at the Crusades. The Pope declared that the Holy Lands must be taken in the name of Christianity, but the real reason is that he wants the knights out of Europe to stop the Feudal Lords from fighting.

This current wave of bombings is not done in the name of Islam. Islam may be the current religion being used to justify it, but Islam is not the cause. Why haven't these bombing been going on in 1998, if Islam is to blame? No, the fact that we attacked their homeland is the reason for this. Same thing with the Afghan Taliban.

You guys claim you want Islam to stop being associated with terrorism, yet every time something like this happens, you always bring up Islam.
 
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