Behind the CeaseFireLine (CFL) ......

[PanzerKiel]

Churchills secret army in AJK? I was just thinking about this the other day. I think AJK government needs to focus on raising it's own defence force. The infrastructure could also be used to train irregulars to cross the border and support an insurgency.

Yeah, that option is always there. Though it would require a whole base, infra, industrial base etc , funding....

 

[313ghazi]

Yeah, that option is always there. Though it would require a whole base, infra, industrial base etc , funding....

Yeah, AJK industrial base is non existent. In a sense it's a blessing, at least we have clean drinking water because of it. Our politicians are probably the worst in pakistan.

 

[PakFactor]

Yeah, that option is always there. Though it would require a whole base, infra, industrial base etc , funding....

I would think it’s better to use existing infrastructure already in mainland Pakistan far away from LOC to train irregulars rather than being under constant Indian Army watch.

 

[Cuirassier]

I would think it’s better to use existing infrastructure already in mainland Pakistan far away from LOC to train irregulars rather than being under constant Indian Army watch.

Thousands of irregulars have died in combat in J&K. Dirty work but do their job as cheap expendables. Unfortunately hard to keep on leash.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is expected that in the next major war between Pakistan - India, the IA will cross CFL, penetrate into Gilgit, Skardu and could even reach Chitral.

I hope that thrust up to Chitral will never be planned. That would be major over-reach and would create a broad flank against which even a butter knife would be effective. Skardu is a different proposition; Turtuk has already fallen.

Yes, this scenario is real and WinterWar is actually what enemies think will benefit them...

GanguDaesh wishes to cut-off physical connection between Pak-China... and this desire is equally matched by the GanguStrategicPartners.

The Greatest Game is in town and Pakistan is The Heartland.

We also need to see the breakdown of US-Talib peace dialouge in broader scenario as well. With direct connection to Afghanisatn... Ganguz would have direct line to CentralAsia as well... and of course, Yanks wouldn't have a need to ever leave Afg...

So, in all this scenario both China and Pakistan will sit still and let Ganguz go ShooperPauer scott-free? Afterall then the soft underbelly of China.. from Tibet to Xinjiang... free for poking and unrest... BRI boxed... CPEC dead???

What could we do to counter this rather audacious Gangu+StrategicAllies plan?

A request: please don't use foul words. You can make your excellent points without descending to those levels.

 

[PanzerKiel]

I hope that thrust up to Chitral will never be planned. That would be major over-reach and would create a broad flank against which even a butter knife would be effective. Skardu is a different proposition; Turtuk has already fallen.

Last time Indian army planned, and were about to conduct, a conventional attack in this area

..... They inducted 6 Mountain Division by air within about a week. Of course they faced a shortage of accommodation for the almost 10, 000 troops that arrived from nowhere. This airlift was remarkable enough.

As per Indian accounts, Pakistan staged a more remarkable airlift. 300 C130 sorties were flown within 3 days to bring in two extra brigades into FCNA which altered the attack ratio enough to force Indians to postpone and then cancel their attack a few hours before it was about to be launched.

Such was... Once upon a time in the month of February...

Last time Indian army planned, and were about to conduct, a conventional attack in this area

..... They inducted 6 Mountain Division by air within about a week. Of course they faced a shortage of accommodation for the almost 10, 000 troops that arrived from nowhere. This airlift was remark enough.

As per Indian accounts, Pakistan staged a more remarkable airlift. 300 C130 sorties were flown within 3 days to bring in two extra brigades into FCNA which altered the attack ratio enough to force Indians to postpone and then cancel their attack a few hours before it was about to be launched.

Such was... Once upon a time in the month of February...

And Indians, by their own accounts, were thoroughly impressed by our C130, it's capability to operate at surge rate without maintenance, and it's large overload capacity.

Last time Indian army planned, and were about to conduct, a conventional attack in this area

..... They inducted 6 Mountain Division by air within about a week. Of course they faced a shortage of accommodation for the almost 10, 000 troops that arrived from nowhere. This airlift was remarkable enough.

As per Indian accounts, Pakistan staged a more remarkable airlift. 300 C130 sorties were flown within 3 days to bring in two extra brigades into FCNA which altered the attack ratio enough to force Indians to postpone and then cancel their attack a few hours before it was about to be launched.

Such was... Once upon a time in the month of February...




And Indians, by their own accounts, were thoroughly impressed by our C130, it's capability to operate at surge rate without maintenance, and it's large overload capacity.

And then, the very recent Indian logistic exercise, EX BAHUBALI, is also an indicator of a similar thing.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Last time Indian army planned, and were about to conduct, a conventional attack in this area

..... They inducted 6 Mountain Division by air within about a week. Of course they faced a shortage of accommodation for the almost 10, 000 troops that arrived from nowhere. This airlift was remarkable enough.

As per Indian accounts, Pakistan staged a more remarkable airlift. 300 C130 sorties were flown within 3 days to bring in two extra brigades into FCNA which altered the attack ratio enough to force Indians to postpone and then cancel their attack a few hours before it was about to be launched.

Such was... Once upon a time in the month of February...




And Indians, by their own accounts, were thoroughly impressed by our C130, it's capability to operate at surge rate without maintenance, and it's large overload capacity.




And then, the very recent Indian logistic exercise, EX BAHUBALI, is also an indicator of a similar thing.

Two brigades - 3 days!!!

Damn.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Two brigades - 3 days!!!

Damn.

I assure you, Indian planners must have uttered these same words.

Two brigades - 3 days!!!

Damn.

There was a lengthy inquiry done at Indian MoD, as it was suspected that there was a leak...

 

[Joe Shearer]

I assure you, Indian planners must have uttered these same words.



There was a lengthy inquiry done at Indian MoD, as it was suspected that there was a leak...

That reaction time, that mobilisation speed...that is scary. It approaches PLA standards (you are obviously aware of their decade-old exercise to see if they could meet certain norms - a regiment in 24 hours, a brigade in 3 days, a division in a week, and an Army Corps in, if I remember, either a fortnight or a month. Any weather, any point of their boundary.

In fact, TWO brigades in 3 days exceeds PLA standards.

There MUST have been a leak.

 

[PanzerKiel]

That reaction time, that mobilisation speed...that is scary. It approaches PLA standards (you are obviously aware of their decade-old exercise to see if they could meet certain norms - a regiment in 24 hours, a brigade in 3 days, a division in a week, and an Army Corps in, if I remember, either a fortnight or a month. Any weather, any point of their boundary.

In fact, TWO brigades in 3 days exceeds PLA standards.

There MUST have been a leak.

You may like to appreciate our intelligence work... I mean, 6 Mountain Division must have been picked up once troops were being recalled, being equipped, driven to the airbase for airlift, then it took six more days for it to be fully concentrated in 15 Corps area.

As it happens, normally one day of superb output may have years of intelligence and planning behind it..

Israeli devastating air attack in the opening of 67 war had 13 years of planning and int gathering behind it....

You may like to appreciate our intelligence work... I mean, 6 Mountain Division must have been picked up once troops were being recalled, being equipped, driven to the airbase for airlift, then it took six more days for it to be fully concentrated in 15 Corps area.

As it happens, normally one day of superb output may have years of intelligence and planning behind it..

Israeli devastating air attack in the opening of 67 war had 13 years of planning and int gathering behind it....

There is nothing sudden

You can always assume that once 6 Mountain Division was picked, Pakistan Army had already started to do the same with its reserve brigades.... And then logically, it takes less time to airlift 2 brigades instead of a whole division.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You may like to appreciate our intelligence work... I mean, 6 Mountain Division must have been picked up once troops were being recalled, being equipped, driven to the airbase for airlift, then it took six more days for it to be fully concentrated in 15 Corps area.

As it happens, normally one day of superb output may have years of intelligence and planning behind it..

Israeli devastating air attack in the opening of 67 war had 13 years of planning and int gathering behind it....

Sir,

Whatever the reasons, that performance was blood-chilling.

[Also, you know where the Mountain Div was based; that is supposed to be a safer location, in terms of intelligence, compared to others.]

Did you even find out our bivouacs, our assembly points? Don't answer this if you wish not to, but did you know what would happen next? Transportation, bridgehead location and so on.

I suspect you will answer, that didn't matter, once your troops were in place.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir,

Whatever the reasons, that performance was blood-chilling.

Did you even find out our bivouacs, our assembly points? Don't answer this if you wish not to, but did you know what would happen next? Transportation, bridgehead location and so on.

In the barren regions of 15 Corps, you cannot hide a whole NEW division.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

It is expected that in the next major war between Pakistan - India, the IA will cross CFL, penetrate into Gilgit, Skardu and could even reach Chitral.

Its time we take over Kargil area and Whole Jammu. Valley will fall into our hands

 

[Joe Shearer]

In the barren regions of 15 Corps, you cannot hide a whole NEW division.

Of course not, but it could have jumped onwards to any one of three points. And it would have had to do its jumping with things to help it jumping - at least a part of it, forward echelons and, um, so on.

I somehow feel a great urge to return to my cooking. Far more comforting.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Its time we take over Kargil area and Whole Jammu. Valley will fall into our hands

Ahan, you are trying to do what @Armchair does... Going in too quick..... Kargil and Jammu are not apples on a tree which will fall into your hands

Of course not, but it could have jumped onwards to any one of three points. And it would have had to do its jumping with things to help it jumping - at least a part of it, forward echelons and, um, so on.

I somehow feel a great urge to return to my cooking. Far more comforting.

The end result was, at both of its intended points of launch.... Instead of one brigade , it now faced with two defending brigades each.

It was game over.