Behind the CeaseFireLine (CFL) ......

[Bossman]

Massive disparity of forces will still work against Pakistan in the expected coming confrontation. If Pakistan loses major territory in Kashmir, it is game over for the Kashmiris. It is sad that the Pakistan Army refuses to pump up the size factor. Even with a weak economy, this is possible through limited conscription. Instead, PA is gambling with "quality over quantity" buying new tanks and artillery. However, this gamble is a risky one as this choice has proved faulty in the past, including 1965 and 71.

In mountainous terrain, such a disparity can neutralized due to a great extent. I think in the next confrontation, they will use option where they have clear advantage as such use of Navy cannot be ruled out.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Massive disparity of forces will still work against Pakistan in the expected coming confrontation. If Pakistan loses major territory in Kashmir, it is game over for the Kashmiris. It is sad that the Pakistan Army refuses to pump up the size factor. Even with a weak economy, this is possible through limited conscription. Instead, PA is gambling with "quality over quantity" buying new tanks and artillery. However, this gamble is a risky one as this choice has proved faulty in the past, including 1965 and 71.

Keeping in view the current force dispositions and reserves on both sides, major territorial losses may not be possible for any side.
This thing was recognized by IA at the onset of 71 war. Therefore, instead of coming for AK frontally, General Candeth launched his main thrust along working boundary in Sialkot and Shakargarh sectors. His aim being to outflank our strong defences along LOC.
If war would have continued, this thrust along with frontal attacks against our 12 division would have been difficult for us to handle. We would have been forced to commit the infantry component of ARN initially, and later of ARS as well.
With ARS diluted, their strike forces, along with forces shifted from Eastern Command, world have been able to operate with impunity south of Lahore and in desert.

 

[PakFactor]

Keeping in view the current force dispositions and reserves on both sides, major territorial losses may not be possible for any side.
This thing was recognized by IA at the onset of 71 war. Therefore, instead of coming for AK frontally, General Candeth launched his main thrust along working boundary in Sialkot and Shakargarh sectors. His aim being to outflank our strong defences along LOC.
If war would have continued, this thrust along with frontal attacks against our 12 division would have been difficult for us to handle. We would have been forced to commit the infantry component of ARN initially, and later of ARS as well.
With ARS diluted, their strike forces, along with forces shifted from Eastern Command, world have been able to operate with impunity south of Lahore and in desert.

@PanzerKiel he still has a valid point, what will we do to counter the size of large Indian Forces? We need some sort of conscription at the local level organized in a military fashion under the control of the military. These conscripts would be required to report for training 1 month out of the year and the cycle will roll into every month for different batches of recruits. These conscripts could be used to hold the home front and relieve pressure on the Armed Forces to focus on incursion into Indian IB lines.

Problem is this you can't look at what they did and didn't do and base it of that. They right now have a million man army in IOK; this could be reinforced with armor and heavy weapons to break the LOC, while India can call up reserves and make incursions into other areas of the IB between both nations.

My feeling is that the next conflict will start in Pak Kashmir the simple reason is because theirs low level of population and scattered; the mainland has dense population they'll commit some forces here to distract from their main goal. But even those forces could break Pakistan if we do not have a armed population that's able to hold the fort at home outside of Kashmir.

 

[PanzerKiel]

@PanzerKiel he still has a valid point, what will we do to counter the size of large Indian Forces? We need some sort of conscription at the local level organized in a military fashion under the control of the military. These conscripts would be required to report for training 1 month out of the year and the cycle will roll into every month for different batches of recruits. These conscripts could be used to hold the home front and relieve pressure on the Armed Forces to focus on incursion into Indian IB lines.

Don't want to go into details, but something like this is already being done.

@PanzerKiel

Problem is this you can't look at what they did and didn't do and base it of that. They right now have a million man army in IOK; this could be reinforced with armor and heavy weapons to break the LOC, while India can call up reserves and make incursions into other areas of the IB between both nations.

I take it as relative. Not only theirs, but our capabilities have also increased in relation to theirs.

 

[PakFactor]

Don't want to go into details, but something like this is already being done.

That's good, hope you guys expand it into the rest of Pakistan.

 

[PanzerKiel]

That's good, hope you guys expand it into the rest of Pakistan.

Let's have new hopes dear. What you are suggesting has been done as well.

Aur koi hukum?

 

[Cuirassier]

It is stupid to raise low-quality troops - dilution of such sort crippled the Eastern Command. You have to lure them into the meat-grinder - like XI Corps in '65.

 

[PanzerKiel]

It is stupid to raise low-quality troops - dilution of such sort crippled the Eastern Command. You have to lure them into the meat-grinder - like XI Corps in '65.

No low quality troops this time. Like you, people at the helm have also learned what we did wrong.

 

[PakFactor]

It is stupid to raise low-quality troops - dilution of such sort crippled the Eastern Command. You have to lure them into the meat-grinder - like XI Corps in '65.

Warfare has changed you need to teach them solid Guerrilla Warfare tactics and they can hold of a capable army. Go from Snipers > Foot Soliders > IEDs to cripple the enemy and you have the home advantage of knowing you terrain.

Let's have new hopes dear. What you are suggesting has been done as well.

Aur koi hukum?

Haja to nai, lol, but you never know!
Just happy to hear you say we're correcting some old mistakes.

But I do have one request, to have the military get rid of this "minimum deterrence" word completely, this word should have no place in any officers vocabulary, and never to think on the minimum train of thought.

You have to think on the American line of thought as we do in the US, "You either go big, or you go home".

 

[Cuirassier]

No low quality troops this time. Like you, people at the helm have also learned what we did wrong.

Hopefully

 

[Joe Shearer]

Warfare has changed you need to teach them solid Guerrilla Warfare tactics and they can hold of a capable army. Go from Snipers > Foot Soliders > IEDs to cripple the enemy and you have the home advantage of knowing you terrain.



Haja to nai, lol, but you never know!
Just happy to hear you say we're correcting some old mistakes.

But I do have one request, to have the military get rid of this "minimum deterrence" word completely, this word should have no place in any officers vocabulary, and never to think on the minimum train of thought.

You have to think on the American line of thought as we do in the US, "You either go big, or you go home".

<sigh>

Time to buy the glass bangles and the skirts.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Massive disparity of forces will still work against Pakistan in the expected coming confrontation. If Pakistan loses major territory in Kashmir, it is game over for the Kashmiris. It is sad that the Pakistan Army refuses to pump up the size factor. Even with a weak economy, this is possible through limited conscription. Instead, PA is gambling with "quality over quantity" buying new tanks and artillery. However, this gamble is a risky one as this choice has proved faulty in the past, including 1965 and 71.

You have completely and totally misunderstood Pakistan military strategy, and it is not for me to explain it to you here in an open forum.

@PanzerKiel he still has a valid point, what will we do to counter the size of large Indian Forces? We need some sort of conscription at the local level organized in a military fashion under the control of the military. These conscripts would be required to report for training 1 month out of the year and the cycle will roll into every month for different batches of recruits. These conscripts could be used to hold the home front and relieve pressure on the Armed Forces to focus on incursion into Indian IB lines.

Problem is this you can't look at what they did and didn't do and base it of that. They right now have a million man army in IOK; this could be reinforced with armor and heavy weapons to break the LOC, while India can call up reserves and make incursions into other areas of the IB between both nations.

My feeling is that the next conflict will start in Pak Kashmir the simple reason is because theirs low level of population and scattered; the mainland has dense population they'll commit some forces here to distract from their main goal. But even those forces could break Pakistan if we do not have a armed population that's able to hold the fort at home outside of Kashmir.

There is only one way - fight; like there is no tomorrow.

Use "every thing" we have ...…

 

[Armchair]

@PanzerKiel I'm glad to hear this.

On a side note, while I don't know what exact solution is being implemented, if it gets down to conscription, here is what I would go with:

1. Minimum requirement 5'6. Bottom quartile kept for civil works, civil defense, and nation building projects. Top 3 quartiles pressed into military service.
2. 1 weekend a month. 1 week a year.
3. Equipped to the standard of Infantry brigades (not light infantry brigade)
4. A strong professional NCO corps
5. Used only defensively and in reserve

 

[diligence]

The rise of Modi to the top position in India is quite illustrative of how the character, dignity, morale, and law can easily be traded with the so-called supreme national interests. Modi - a low caliber criminal-minded illiterate and a mass-murderer - used to be a disgraced global pariah who was strictly banned from visiting countries in the civilized world. Domestically, however, Modi was perceived as an avatar of Hindu god who will get Bharat Matta cleansed of all impurities (in the form of Indian religious minorities). A lowly person with a non-charismatic shallow personality, criminal record, and devoid of of ethics was thus installed as the prime minister of the largest democracy of world. While that can be taken as an evidence of how dark, criminal, and closed-minded characteristics of Hindu masses in India, it also exposes the selfish and hypocritical role of the so-called civilized world. The Western world could not resist their temptation of exploiting a rare opportunity available in the form of an emotionally skewed, mentally retard, and a symbol of hatred rising to the position of chief executive of India. Only such a person - full of hate and ever ready to take on the enemies - could serve the West's core interests by containing or countering a rising China. A globally disgraced outcast was thus turned into a global leader. Worthless minnows like Clinton, Obama, Tony Blair, etc. opted to fall to utter disgrace by welcoming, hugging, and honoring a disgraced global pariah as a state guest. Their low character, selfishness, and criminal actions for petty gains will haunt them (and their nations) in history as cohorts of a disgraced mass murderer.

Soon after coming to power in India, Modi and his gang of extremist Hindu criminals started doing what any criminal would do. A well thought-out and systematic campaign aimed at tightening the noose against Indian religious minorities was launched in India. Heinous attacks on members of minorities, especially in localities with Muslims population, were frequently launched by gangs of Hindu terrorists of RSS often with collusion of police force. Many mosques were attacked, burned, and destroyed. A new citizenship law was introduced only for rendering hundreds of millions of people stripped of their citizenship even though these people have lived there for centuries. The disputed state of occupied J&K was annexed into India with 8 million residents of the occupied state were put under continued curfew for about ten months now. With a total alienation of the people of occupied state of J&K, Indian security forces are suffering from increasing casualties. Indian strategy of labeling the Kashmiri freedom struggle as terrorism, blaming it on Pakistan, and blackmailing the world to pressurize Pakistan is not working to the desired level.

However, the Indian interests are currently overlapping those of the West in the context of OBOR in general and CPEC in particular. Their combined effort of using terrorism against Balochistan with Afghanistan being a springboard are not bearing much fruit. With West's consent and support, the next level on the tension ladder appears to be staged in Pakistan's northern areas. The strategic goal might be to cut off the Karakoram Highway. Pakistan is fully capable and prepared to not only defeat Indian plans but also make a counter move to punish Indians for any such stupid action. More than that, Chinese are seriously following all these developments. Any Western-backed Indian move to cut off the CPEC road is more against China than Pakistan. Chinese will certainly not take it easily and definitely will react decisively. And that reaction might not be confined only to the Gilgit-Bultistan region. Together we need to smash the filthy snake's skull once for all.

The global strategic situation is also not less interesting. With corona pandemic and crash of global oil markets, most of the middle eastern kingdoms are at the financial doldrums. Turkey is currently tangled in Syria and Libya. Western powers are trying engage China in the South China Sea. So most of our friendly countries are caught in their own crises. Does that just a coincidence? Or is it a part of the overall game plan? In any case Pakistan must counter Indian aggression with or without support from friendly countries. As commoners, we are not aware of actual Pak game plan but, based on the events of last 30 or so years, we can rest assured that Pakistan will give a devastating response to any Indian aggression. We have defeated two supper powers in Afghanistan and forced Indians bite the dust multiple times despite their amassing of troops at our borders. Modi might be mentally sick criminal but he is actually a coward. Look at the actions Indians have claimed against Pakistan. Their claimed surgical strike at LOC in 2016 was nothing more than usual cross border firing. Their Balakot strike, despite the tall claims they shamelessly keep making, was more of a symbolic nature, i.e. an attack against a non-military target than a real aggressive action against military targets. Pakistan, on the other hand, has repeatedly hit the real Indian military targets in response to both Indian surgical strikes. The future Indian course will depend on what ultimately prevails; Modi's stupidity or his cowardice.

 

[313ghazi]

No low quality troops this time. Like you, people at the helm have also learned what we did wrong.

Churchills secret army in AJK? I was just thinking about this the other day. I think AJK government needs to focus on raising it's own defence force. The infrastructure could also be used to train irregulars to cross the border and support an insurgency.