PakPositivism: How to manage Discourse for PakPosters on PDF!!!

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@masterchief_mirza @Dalit @TNT @Mamluk @Areesh @PakFactor @PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @Morpheus @peagle @SecularNationalist @raahaat7 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Talwar e Pakistan @Taimur Khurram @-blitzkrieg- @N.Siddiqui @maverick1977

We have to get to the task of building the Pakistani Narrative, brothers. That is the only foolproof way to counter-act the negative propaganda of the enemy.

The question is, where do we start?

1. We must first trademark Pakistani identity, language, history, and culture.

2. We must establish the proper understanding of who we are as a nation, both to our citizens and abroad. This entails study of our genetics, ancient history, and the rise of Islam here.

3. We must work to push the message of our government and military, which is fighting the fifth generational propaganda war against our enemies.

It is quite clear that disproving the lies is no longer sufficient. We must create our narrative, and reinforce that narrative.

Thoughts would be appreciated friends.

We are treading uncharted territory, so input of many Pakistanis would help.

 

[peagle]

1. We must first trademark Pakistani identity, culture, language, history, and culture.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, each and every point you make, but for me if we can get the first point right and get it to click with our people, the rest will fall like dominoes. But, as you say, a holistic approach is always better then a simple one.

I for one am sick of Pakistanis defending our enemies, not just India, everyone who opposes us. In my life, and here on PDF, more then once I've had Pakistanis attacking me or trying to give me an alternate stupid version, when I factually highlight anything bad about India, or another opposition, it makes me sick and angry.

In fact, I am in the middle of arguing with some ****-stani right now, in the military forum, I have not replied further yet, because I'm so peeved off, I don't wish my reply to be tainted with emotions. Others do not piss me off, that's why I joined, why I am here, to deal with them. But, when I have to defend against my own, it is bloody annoying.

They take a self-appointed pompous supposed moral high ground, because they are intellectually weak, and no one on our side counter attacks a stupid defence of the other. Because we are weak. The world makes and creates lies to attack us, and soon as you highlight a negative point based on facts, someone asks you not to do it, for one stupid reason or another. Creating our identity is a process where we should also dissect the false narrative of the other, it is extremely important and we are poor on both counts.

We cannot not get anywhere if we do not stop saying, we cant do anything, we are rubbish, we are no good, it is always our fault, let them attack us because but we should look at ourselves, Pakistan is nothing but corrupt, and on and on and on and on.

When you drown in negativity, you cannot get up and run, because your motivation is dead. That is what has happened to us and that's where we are.
I want to say more, but already I've said more then I wanted lol, sorry if it went on a bit.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

@masterchief_mirza @Dalit @TNT @Mamluk @Areesh @PakFactor @PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @Morpheus @peagle @SecularNationalist @raahaat7 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Talwar e Pakistan @Taimur Khurram @-blitzkrieg- @N.Siddiqui @maverick1977

We have to get to the task of building the Pakistani Narrative, brothers. That is the only foolproof way to counter-act the negative propaganda of the enemy.

The question is, where do we start?

1. We must first trademark Pakistani identity, culture, language, history, and culture.

2. We must establish the proper understanding of who we are as a nation, both to our citizens and abroad. This entails study of our genetics, ancient history, and the rise of Islam here.

3. We must work to push the message of our government and military, which is fighting the fifth generational propaganda war against our enemies.

It is quite clear that disproving the lies is no longer sufficient. We must create our narrative, and re-inforce that narrative.

Thoughts would be appreciated friends.

We are treading uncharted territory, so input of many Pakistanis would be appreciated.

View attachment 678507

This blueprint is sound. It is a solid manifesto for the advancement of our national interest. The biggest challenge is not convincing non-Pakistanis of these truths concerning our existence, rather it is Pakistanis who need convincing. The twin impacts of the gangster culture and Bollywood bhai bhai culture has decimated the notion of Pakistani self-improvement abroad. All the Indians we grew up with, watching movies with and engaging in "desi" activities with have turned into bhaktistanis good and proper. Chanakya would have been proud of this great deception.

It will take a generation of solid realignment to rectify the matter. It can be done though. Indeed, it must be done. Indians leave even their own agents hanging out to dry once done with them (I.e. the Abdullah clan of Kashmir). Why did we ever think they would show any loyalty to the Pakistanis they grew up with?

The realisation came too late in UK. Moeen Ali's sad vilification as a "****" came not from white English cricket goers (who btw were equally appalled at Indian behaviour), but from this group of 5th column chanakyaists hiding all these years, biding their time, finally evolving to the final stage of saffronist overt aggression, free of any shackles of needing to maintain some deceitful friendship with Pakistanis to forge ahead in a hostile world. Still, better late than never.

 

[TNT]

@masterchief_mirza @Dalit @TNT @Mamluk @Areesh @PakFactor @PAKISTANFOREVER @Musings @Verve @Morpheus @peagle @SecularNationalist @raahaat7 @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Talwar e Pakistan @Taimur Khurram @-blitzkrieg- @N.Siddiqui @maverick1977

We have to get to the task of building the Pakistani Narrative, brothers. That is the only foolproof way to counter-act the negative propaganda of the enemy.

The question is, where do we start?

1. We must first trademark Pakistani identity, culture, language, history, and culture.

2. We must establish the proper understanding of who we are as a nation, both to our citizens and abroad. This entails study of our genetics, ancient history, and the rise of Islam here.

3. We must work to push the message of our government and military, which is fighting the fifth generational propaganda war against our enemies.

It is quite clear that disproving the lies is no longer sufficient. We must create our narrative, and re-inforce that narrative.

Thoughts would be appreciated friends.

We are treading uncharted territory, so input of many Pakistanis would be appreciated.

View attachment 678507

Very important topic, thanks for tagging brother. The point is, we first need our own nation to know theirselves. For too long our society have been influenced from outside. Starting with british slavery, our society was influenced by people with foreign education and culture. Then came indian bollywood influence along with western, russian as well as iranian. Our previous govts never cared about it and just went with the flow. The result, we have a society divided by religion, sect, caste and class.
I will tell u a story. A religious guy from the far flung mountains of our village went to lahore, previously he had participated in jihad against USSR. He had never been to other parts of Pakistan and had this ideal Islamic image of Pakistan as was in his area. When he visited lahore, he wanted to migrate and leave Pakistan as he thought its no different than a kafir country. The opposite would be true for an open minded karachite or lahori.
We need to establish a society that is balanced and optimized. We should not go to extreme on any side. This only can happen if we have a common education curriculum. In Pakistan, the poor studies text book board books while the rich studies A and O levels, the poor study pak study while the rich study american and European history and knows nothing about Pakistan. Imran khan is atleast doing something about it and i hope he succeeds (i have doubts).
We need to forge a national identity that is taught equally to all citizens of country, we need to use our diversity for good and not for division. We need to strictly monitor what is taught to our kids and what is shown on tv and media.
Our people are to be blamed too. I know so many people in good positions in military, bureaucracy, businessmen and even professors that educate or want to educate and settle their kids abroad. Its like a fashion and class identity to educate and settle ur kids in the US or Europe. Why is this so? Why the higher class itself that enjoy perks and privileges in Pakistan want to send their offspring abroad? Another thing i notice alot, most of my frnds n family would teach their kids English first. Mostly the 2 to 4 years old can speak English but not their mother tongue, that i think is disgusting and shows how mentally enslaved we are. I am highly educated but i teach my little kid pashto, pure pashto. I dont want to deprive him of the blessing of a mother tongue. I have strictly instructed my wife and family to talk in pure pashto with him. Its not that i dont want him to learn other languages, infact i will teach him many languages but i want him to have his original mother tongue as well. My other frnds think im wrong but i think they r stupid fools and mental slaves. We need to make our new generation proud Pakistanis and not just by words but by deeds, culture, manners and outlook.
Unfortunately sold out and traitor leaders never cared about this. This is a really big topic and debate so will add more later.

 

[peagle]

Moeen Ali's sad vilification as a "****" came not from white English cricket goers

I was not aware of this.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

rather it is Pakistanis who need convincing

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[peagle]

influenced from outside

Salam bro, I think this is our first interaction. I think it is a grave mistake to reject outside influence, it can lead whole lot other problems, lack of creativity, lack of understand of who you are dealing with etc... if we strengthen ourselves holistically, outside influence is tempered by default.
You know the first time the West went to Japan, Japan refused to trade with them or allow them to open embassies and it shut itself off from the rest of the world. Then the West went back with gunboats and forced Japan to open up. Japan had fallen behind so much, it had to take their dictation. Making yourself strong does not mean keeping others out.
Too many other examples of closed societies dying our time. Strength does not come from cooking the same dish over and over again, stay open but keep yourself strong, education, morals, culture and so on.

talk in pure pashto with him

I agree, mother tongue is extremely important, be it Pasto, Punjabi, Sindi, Balochi, Hindko, Kashmiri or whichever else, although our family has Adopted Urdu as the default Language.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I was not aware of this.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Worcestershire cricketer Moeen Ali's father hits out at racial abuse from crowd

Father of Worcestershire cricketer Moeen Ali hits out at 'disgraceful' abuse

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[TNT]

Salam bro, I think this is our first interaction. I think it is a grave mistake to reject outside influence, it can lead whole lot other problems, lack of creativity, lack of understand of who you are dealing with etc... if we strengthen ourselves holistically, outside influence is tempered by default.
You know the first time the West went to Japan, Japan refused to trade with them or allow them to open embassies and it shut itself off from the rest of the world. Then the West went back with gunboats and forced Japan to open up. Japan had fallen behind so much, it had to take their dictation. Making yourself strong does not mean keeping others out.
Too many other examples of closed societies dying our time. Strength does not come from cooking the same dish over and over again, stay open but keep yourself strong, education, morals, culture and so on.


I agree, mother tongue is extremely important, be it Pasto, Punjabi, Sindi, Balochi, Hindko, Kashmiri or whichever else, although our family has Adopted Urdu as the default Language.

W salam brother.
You are right, what i meant by influence is not shutting out the world. Its damaging to shut urself and close ur eyes, infact i want Pakistanis to spread. My point was about influencing our religion, culture and value. An example, dramas on PTV used to have love stories that end with marriage and usually showed that u marry the girl u love, nowadays dramas show u can have affairs, fall for others wife and divorce someone easily and is nothing. It starts with mera jism meri marzi and then suddenly ull see gay pride parades and then demonstration to legalize homosexuality and same sex marriages. Earlier, news casters and womwn on tv had to dupatta, showed women how is it normal dress, then that dupatta kept slipping and now i hardly see any women in media or news wearing dupatta. Only the servants are shown wearing dupatta, showing that dupatta is a lower class thing. Men used to have "sharam and haya", now guys directly ask girls for dates as if its west. People used to take care about how wealth is earned, during rishta, they would find if the guy n his family earns halal or not. Now no one gives a damn if its halal or haram as long as the guy has money. There are so many more examples, this is degradation of society, influenced from outside. We can keep our values and be open to the world, infact the world will learn from us.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

1. We must first trademark Pakistani identity, language, history, and culture.

One of the best lines I have read on PDF over a decade. This is trhe biggest weakness of Pakistan that is costing the country soft power, billions of hard dollars etc.

 

[peagle]

Loved this programme, for once the religious leadership are getting on-board the PakPositivism narrative. This is extremely important for a harmonious family called Pakistan.

Just a video I was watching, he was a true original leader of Pakpositivism

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I have noticed a pattern. And I would suggest others look out for this because it informs us as to the problem we have. When foreigners visit Pakistan or are introduced to Pakistan they will describe things with "Pakistani". So they will say today I had Pakistani breakfast or had Pakistani food for lunch. Then they will describe some cultural more as "Pakistani".

However after few days of interaction with Pakistani's they will change and start using terms like "I had desi food for lunch". Or I went to the local shops and bought some "desi clothes" or "Indian cloths". I noticed how Mark Weins go from calling everything "Pakistani" to terms like "lovely desi ghee".

Contrast that to Greeks. They have even appropriated generic food like yoghurt, olives, cheese as "Greek".

If Pakistani's are too scared of branding everything around themselves as "Pakistani" you think the world will. And is that important?


Pakistan risks Basmati export as India applies GI tag in EU
Leading Pakistani rice exporters have called on the government to immediately oppose the Indian application

Pakistan risks Basmati export as India applies GI tag in EU

Pakistan risks Basmati export as India applies GI tag in...

www.tribuneindia.com

This "Pakistani" tag is not just academic. It costs Pakistan billions of dollars. It costs Pakistan in lost soft power. Eventually the only time world hears the name Pakistan is for "terrorism" or some other negative. No wonder Pakistan has such a low positive profile in the world.

Going back to the Basmati rice I did some reading on it. From what I read the earliest recorded use of "Basmati rice" is in writing of Waris Shah. One quick Google search told me Waris Shah was born near Sheikhapura in Pakistan';s Punjab.

Yet today the Gangu's are applying to European Union to register Basmati as Indian. Only Pakistani's can fix this.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

 

[peagle]

I have noticed a pattern. And I would suggest others look out for this because it informs us as to the problem we have. When foreigners visit Pakistan or are introduced to Pakistan they will describe things with "Pakistani". So they will say today I had Pakistani breakfast or had Pakistani food for lunch. Then they will describe some cultural more as "Pakistani".

However after few days of interaction with Pakistani's they will change and start using terms like "I had desi food for lunch". Or I went to the local shops and bought some "desi clothes" or "Indian cloths". I noticed how Mark Weins go from calling everything "Pakistani" to terms like "lovely desi ghee".

Contrast that to Greeks. They have even appropriated generic food like yoghurt, olives, cheese as "Greek".

If Pakistani's are too scared of branding everything around themselves as "Pakistani" you think the world will. And is that important?


Pakistan risks Basmati export as India applies GI tag in EU
Leading Pakistani rice exporters have called on the government to immediately oppose the Indian application

Pakistan risks Basmati export as India applies GI tag in EU

Pakistan risks Basmati export as India applies GI tag in...

www.tribuneindia.com

This "Pakistani" tag is not just academic. It costs Pakistan billions of dollars. It costs Pakistan in lost soft power. Eventually the only time world hears the name Pakistan is for "terrorism" or some other negative. No wonder Pakistan has such a low positive profile in the world.

Going back to the Basmati rice I did some reading on it. From what I read the earliest recorded use of "Basmati rice" is in writing of Waris Shah. One quick Google search told me Waris Shah was born near Sheikhapura in Pakistan';s Punjab.

Yet today the Gangu's are applying to European Union to register Basmati as Indian. Only Pakistani's can fix this.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-claims-basmati-rice-as-their-gi-basmati-battle.686743/

I started this thread about a week ago, looks like we are waking up to these issues.

But, you are right, nuances matter, they define who you are at an unconscious level and create unconscious bias.
Unless pointed out as you have, people do not realise and correct if or when required.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-claims-basmati-rice-as-their-gi-basmati-battle.686743/

I started this thread about a week ago, looks like we are waking up to these issues.

But, you are right, nuances matter, they define who you are at an unconscious level and create unconscious bias.
Unless pointed out as you have, people do not realise and correct if or when required.

Identity is a abstract concept. We reify such notions by using names again and again so that it beginsd to exist like a brand. Like any good brand you need to associate everything positive and do everything to avoid anything negative. That is why brands spend billions on adverts using models, smiling children, fabulous backgrounds etc to create a positive image by association with that brand. Pakistan has failed on this miserably and only succeeded in conjuring the image of terrorist when "Pakistan" is mentioned.

 

[Kabira]

Our people are to be blamed too. I know so many people in good positions in military, bureaucracy, businessmen and even professors that educate or want to educate and settle their kids abroad. Its like a fashion and class identity to educate and settle ur kids in the US or Europe. Why is this so? Why the higher class itself that enjoy perks and privileges in Pakistan want to send their offspring abroad?

This is so true. My father friend who is bureaucrat wanted to settle his 7 kids in europe. Reasons could be many...

He is privileged but have doubt about his kids future. Think about this, our population growing at much faster rate then government can afford to hire. Imran Khan talked about pension bomb and pending reforms. Government jobs are status symbol. With private sector destroyed by Bhutto in 70's and low GDP growth rate. Its not surprising even well off people want their kids to move out if possible.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

our population

Instead of increasing exports or finding markets the only thing left is people export. You see the result.