Barefaced Blair says “force is necessary” in fight against “radical Islam”

[livingdead]

@jamahir do you support bombing of yugoslavia in 99, blair was instrumental in brining in USA. There was opposition to that in some places too.

 

[Bratva]

This is where you lose every time in pretending that you care about civilians. It's a huge hole in that 'concern" you seem to portray and can't explain away.

You ONLY seem to be worried about civilian deaths when non muslims are behind it, but we never hear or heard a word about the muslim dictator Saddam killing his people, gassed his people by numbers estimate near a million or more.

We don't hear from you saying "wait a minute- the U.S got rid of a genocidal maniac- murderer of women, children and civilians in his own country. Although the evidence of WMD was wrong, the evidence of him having killed and continue to kill his people nearing a million or more was NOT wrong! "

If Nazi germany was actually lead by a muslim man and not Hitler. You would be cursing at the allied invasion to get rid of him, which had higher casualties.

That would tell us that you really don't care about civilians, rather are more focused about an anti-west bias. Look at the post you are replying to as proof of where your priorities lie. Who is their right mind would say that military action is also not needed to kill fundamental jihadist? You are doing so right now in Pakistan too & through your military!

Somehow you think innocent civilians only get killed in western wars and never when say your army is going after the terrorists by bombing infrastructure, buildings, village and homes filled with civilians too.

More Iraqi civilians were killed by fellow muslims and by a ratio close to 8-10X

But where is the moral outrage when President lincoln has to kill thousands of his fellow countrymen for the sake of keeping America intact and crush the rebellion ?

So how saddam becomes Anti-hero when he kills rebels who are demanding to be break away from iraq while Lincoln is considered Hero for doing same things ?

Or What about Boko Haram? Why americans aren't fighting them. Afterall they are following the footsteps of sadam or what about Warlords of african countries who massacred an equal no of civilians that Saddam did.

If Saddam was in power, there would not be an ISIS, no Al QAEDA in IRAQ and no mess in syria as well !

 

[syedali73]

But where is the moral outage when President lincoln has to kill thousands of his fellow countrymen for the sake of keeping America intact and crush the rebellion ?

So how saddam becomes Anti-hero when he kills rebels who are demanding to be break away from iraq while Lincoln is Hero for doing same things ?

Not thousands but at-least 620,000 men lost their lives in the line of duty alone with practically countless who became disabled. An estimated of 2% of Americans population perished in the civil war.

Man you rock.

 

[Bratva]

Not thousands but at-least 620,000 men lost their lives in the line of duty alone with practically countless who became disabled. An estimated of 2% of Americans population perished in the civil war.

Man you rock.

Not to forget indiscriminate bombings of rebel cities, Disregard of human rights, countless rapes done by both sides.

Syed sahab, one thing I hate is selective truth and Political correctness. Claiming moral high ground when 100 or so years ago, same nation was indulging in similar practices.

 

[syedali73]

Not to forget indiscriminate bombings of rebel cities, Disregard of human rights, countless rapes done by both sides.

Syed sahab, one thing I hate is selective truth and Political correctness. Claiming moral high ground when 100 or so years ago, same nation was indulging in similar practices.

Yes Sir, I also hate the selective truth but what do that certain members insist on that. Does somebody remember dropping of nuclear bombs on the Japanese cities Hiroshima (135,000, mostly civilians) and Nagasaki (64,000, mostly civilians) and the 'carpet' bombardment on Tokyo (100,000, mostly civilians) and Germen cities such as Dresden (22-25,000 people, mostly civilians) and Berlin (20-50,000, mostly civilians), Hamburg (42,600, mostly civilians), Darmstadt (12,300, mostly civilians).

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

But where is the moral outrage when President lincoln has to kill thousands of his fellow countrymen for the sake of keeping America intact and crush the rebellion ?

So how saddam becomes Anti-hero when he kills rebels who are demanding to be break away from iraq while Lincoln is considered Hero for doing same things ?

Or What about Boko Haram? Why americans aren't fighting them. Afterall they are following the footsteps of sadam or what about Warlords of african countries who massacred an equal no of civilians that Saddam did.

If Saddam was in power, there would not be an ISIS, no Al QAEDA in IRAQ and no mess in syria as well !

Do you know the term "comparing apples to apples"? You are comparing a civil war to a genocidal dictator who killed over a million of his people just to make sure his tribe and his sect was leading the country - to whom you have professed your support for.

You are comparing that fella to a civil war?

By that extension maybe Pakistan should not have been created . Because in the process of that creation a civil war also broke out where millions were killed. Your logic, not mine, says that you would are against the creation of Pakistan on the same grounds.

I can't wait till we get into millions killed by Mughal empires since we think pulling any historical context is comparable. OR! wait- perhaps an example of how much you support Hitler, because if he were still in charge there would be no Charlie Hebdo.

 

[Bratva]

Do you know the term "comparing apples to apples"? You are comparing a civil war to a genocidal dictator who killed over a million o his people just to make sure his tribe was leading the country - to whom you have professed your support for.

You are comparing that fella to a civil war?

By that extension maybe Pakistan should not have been created . Because in the process of that creation a civil war also broke out where millions were killed. Your logic, not mine, says that you would are against the creation of Pakistan on the same grounds.

I can't wait till we get into millions killed by Mughal empires since we think pulling any historical context is comparable.

You are being a total hypocrite. Instead of wasting time on typing gibberish . Do some background reading about civil wars in Iraq during 90's instead of ranting about genocidal dictator who killed for pleasure.

 

[jamahir]

The election is a farse.

this thread by syrian lion is important... ( Syria: Questions that can not be Answered? ).

but multi-party elections are a fraud... if they were actually useful, should we then consider that 100 percent of usa citizens are imperialist capitalist genociders... and 100 percent of british citizens are those same attributes, despite london in 2003 having the "million man march" protest against the iraq invasion.

instead of elections, there should be decentralized recording of people's choices which were done in consensus ( referendums )... this we have spoken about in december, i think.

I was pointing that syria is sharply divided, and syrian lion cannot be the only voice they way you potrayed. And yes, assad is a dictator and sunni majority is not exactly happy at the situation.
however they have no alternative.

please do see this picture thread and its next... ( Intelligence indicates Assad building nuclear plant: report | Page 6 ).

@jamahir do you support bombing of yugoslavia in 99, blair was instrumental in brining in USA. There was opposition to that in some places too.

what became of tito's yugoslavia was sad, but the complications there in 1999 were opportunistically used by nato as proxy war against russia.

yugoslavia should unite to what it was during its prime.

you know, during the libya war, many in the ex-yugoslavia region supported gaddafi and the jamahiriya.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

You are being a total hypocrite. Instead of wasting time on typing gibberish . Do some background reading of civil wars in Iraq during 90's instead of ranting about genocidal dictator who killed for pleasure.

Really, you are asking me to do a background on Saddam Hussein?

You are actually supporting this guy and comparing him to the American civil war of freedom, unity,equal rights and democracy.

Political Oppression:

Hussein openly idolized the former Soviet premier Joseph Stalin, a man notable as much for his paranoia-induced execution sprees as anything else. In July 1978, Hussein had his government issue a memorandum decreeing that anyone whose ideas came into conflict with those of the Baath Party leadership would be subject to summary execution. Most, but certainly not all, of Hussein's targets were ethnic Kurds and Shiite Muslims.

Ethnic Cleansing:

The two dominant ethnicities of Iraq have traditionally been Arabs in south and central Iraq, and Kurds in the north and northeast, particularly along the Iranian border. Hussein long viewed ethnic Kurds as a long-term threat to Iraq's survival, and the oppression and extermination of the Kurds was one of his administration's highest priorities.

Religious Persecution:

The Baath Party was dominated by Sunni Muslims, who made up only about one-third of Iraq's general population; the other two-thirds was made up of Shiite Muslims, Shiism also happening to be the official religion of Iran. Throughout Hussein's tenure, and especially during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), he saw the marginalization and eventual elimination of Shiism as a necessary goal in the Arabization process, by which Iraq would purge itself of all perceived Iranian influence.

The Dujail Massacre of 1982:

In July of 1982, several Shiite militants attempted to assassinate Saddam Hussein while he was riding through the city. Hussein responded by ordering the slaughter of some 148 residents, including dozens of children. This is the war crime with which Saddam Hussein was formally charged, and for which he was executed.

The Barzani Clan Abductions of 1983:

Masoud Barzani led the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), an ethnic Kurdish revolutionary group fighting Baathist oppression. After Barzani cast his lot with the Iranians in the Iran-Iraq War, Hussein had some 8,000 members of Barzani's clan, including hundreds of women and children, abducted. It is assumed that most were slaughtered; thousands have been discovered in mass graves in southern Iraq.

The al-Anfal Campaign:

The worst human rights abuses of Hussein's tenure took place during the genocidal al-Anfal Campaign (1986-1989), in which Hussein's administration called for the extermination of every living thing--human or animal--in certain regions of the Kurdish north. All told, some 182,000 people--men, women, and children--were slaughtered, many through use of chemical weapons. The Halabja poison gas massacre of 1988 alone killed over 5,000 people. Hussein later blamed the attacks on the Iranians, and the Reagan administration, which supported Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, helped promote this cover story.

The Campaign Against the Marsh Arabs:

Hussein did not limit his genocide to identifiably Kurdish groups; he also targeted the predominantly Shiite Marsh Arabs of southeastern Iraq, the direct descendants of the ancient Mesopotamians. By destroying more than 95% of the region's marshes, he effectively depleted its food supply and destroyed the entire millennia-old culture, reducing the number of Marsh Arabs from 250,000 to approximately 30,000. It is unknown how much of this population drop can be attributed to direct starvation and how much to migration, but the human cost was unquestionably high.

 

[Bratva]

@US_statedept_retired In your enraged and gibberish posting, did you bothered to check or read the history about US support to Saddam in 80's when all the above mentioned massacres occurred ? US were supplying weapons to Iraq so they can fight with IRAN and those US supplied weapons were used in those massacres ?

Double standards and hypocrisy much eh ? How many time you are going to embarrass and insult yourself before you actually start reading some Saddam history.

And btw US civil war was about subjugating rebels. So don't try to paint a rosy picture of Killing hundreds of thousands of american people, indiscriminate bombings of rebel cities, disregard of human rights, rapes with glossy terms like freedom, unity and what not


P.S.

United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For years Middle Eastern countries have accused the US of double-talk over Iraq. They are bitterly critical that the American government helped arm Saddam during the 1980s in a war against Iran, which at that time Washington regarded as its biggest enemy in the region.



America's critics are now disgusted by the way the administration has performed a somersault, and now expects them to agree that Saddam's regime should be treated as a pariah.



This will make it even harder to persuade neighbouring states to offer Western troops bases and landing strips vital for such an onslaught.



But one thing was clear last night - President Bush will not let the embarrassment prevent him from forging ahead with his plans to attack Baghdad, and if that does happen Mr Blair will have no choice but to join him in the attack.

Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' | Daily Mail Online

I hope next post of your better contain some facts. If not, don't bother to quote me further, I don't have patience to debate with an ignorant and liar who justifies american illegal invasion of iraq forgetting US helped Iraq carrying out massacres in 80's

And just to set the record straight, I equally blame and hate Saddam and Americans for messing up this part of world and when I see americans taking a higher moral ground to dispose of saddam, I can't bear the hypocrisy of such a notion America is an angel ! So instead of blame game, you better start bringing your intellectual game in debates or else no one going to take you serious.

 

[Musafir117]

@US_statedept_retired
Why you guys only select always muslim dictators? What about King Joung un the most brutal and a real threat with proved having WMD?

The answer is you guys start wetting yours pants when you see a huge China behind that man
About B Lier he your pet like other English men so you sure have come forward to protect him

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

@US_statedept_retired In your enraged and gibberish posting, did you bothered to check or read the history about US support to Saddam in 80's when all the above mentioned massacres occurred ? US were supplying weapons to Iraq so they can fight with IRAN and those US supplied weapons were used in those massacres ?

Double standards and hypocrisy much eh ? How many time you are going to embarrass and insult yourself before you actually start reading some Saddam history.

And btw US civil war was about subjugating rebels. So don't try to paint a rosy picture of Killing hundreds of thousands of american people, indiscriminate bombings of rebel cities, disregard of human rights, rapes with glossy terms like freedom, unity and what not


P.S.

United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For years Middle Eastern countries have accused the US of double-talk over Iraq. They are bitterly critical that the American government helped arm Saddam during the 1980s in a war against Iran, which at that time Washington regarded as its biggest enemy in the region.



America's critics are now disgusted by the way the administration has performed a somersault, and now expects them to agree that Saddam's regime should be treated as a pariah.



This will make it even harder to persuade neighbouring states to offer Western troops bases and landing strips vital for such an onslaught.



But one thing was clear last night - President Bush will not let the embarrassment prevent him from forging ahead with his plans to attack Baghdad, and if that does happen Mr Blair will have no choice but to join him in the attack.

Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' | Daily Mail Online

I hope next post of your better contain some facts. If not, don't bother to quote me further, I don't have patience to debate with an ignorant and liar who justifies american illegal invasion of iraq forgetting US helped Iraq carrying out massacres in 80's

And just to set the record straight, I equally blame and hate Saddam and Americans for messing up this part of world and when I see americans taking a higher moral ground to dispose of saddam, I can't bear the hypocrisy of such a notion America is an angel ! So instead of blame game, you better start bringing your intellectual game in debates or else no one going to take you serious.

You may find facts 'on topic' as gibberish, which is now leading to you shifting the goal post on the discussion .

You started from your love for Saddam and challenging that he was a genocidal dictator, to shifting the argument now to an entire different time in history and our support of the Iraq-Iran war. I take the fact round him being a genocidal maniac is moot now.

Yes, we played according changing ground realities. some forced because Iran had an ayatollah who was back then and is now completely anti U.S. Who held American embassy workers as hostages.

 

[Bratva]

You may find facts 'on topic' as gibberish, which is now leading to you shifting the goal post on the discussion .

You started from your love for Saddam and challenging that he was a genocidal dictator, to shifting the argument now to an entire different time in history and our support of the Iraq-Iran war. I take the fact round him being a genocidal maniac is moot now.

Yes, we played according changing ground realities. some forced because Iran had an ayatollah who was back then and is now completely anti U.S. Who held American embassy workers as hostages.

Helping Saddam becoming genocidal first and then invading and disposing him so to claim we are champions of human rights, freedom and unity and can't stand his atrocities and no words of condemnation for regan who showered his love and uncle sam money on to Saddam ? Dayym that's some American hypocrisy of first order.

Continue with your circular logics and gibberish arguments instead of accepting Americans are as shameless and in the dirt as Saddam were. I won't quote you further. Your replies in this thread deserve to be ignored.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

@US_statedept_retired
Why you guys only select always muslim dictators? What about King Joung un the most brutal and a real threat with proved having WMD?
View attachment 184693
The answer is you guys start wetting yours pants when you see a huge China behind that man
About B Lier he your pet like other English men so you sure have come forward to protect him

China does not favor N Korea anymore and in fact looks at it as a petulant child. U.N Sanctions against N Korea have China's vote all over it too.

We have great relationships with the Muslim world, except a couple of dictators who are equally despised by other Muslim countries. Some of those are a direct threat to the U.S and the M.E and are also vocal about being a threat to us.

Helping Saddam becoming genocidal first and then invading and disposing him so to claim we are champions of human rights, freedom and unity and can't stand his atrocities and no words of condemnation for regan who showered his love and uncle sam money on to Saddam ? Dayym that's some American hypocrisy of first order.

Continue with your circular logics and gibberish arguments instead of accepting Americans are as shameless and in the dirt as Saddam were. I won't quote you further. Your replies in this thread deserve to be ignored.

Shifting the goal post again?

Google young chap google will help you. Saddam's genocidal start was on his own when took over as the leader of the Batth party. Have you seen the famous video at his assembly meeting, where he calls out members of his party, one by one, to be taken away to be shot?

We did not put him there.

If you are asking if we made a mistake, of course we did. But are you willing to say that your love for Saddam is a mistake or that that him being ultimately taken out was a good thing in the long run? Nope......

 

[Musafir117]

China does not favor N Korea anymore and in fact looks at it as a petulant child. U.N Sanctions against N Korea have China's vote all over it too.

We have great relationships with the Muslim world, except a couple of dictators who are equally despised by other Muslim countries. Some of those are a direct threat to the U.S and the M.E and are also vocal about being a threat to us.

As you retired now I hope you are over 50 or some but your reply is childish one. NK and China are great allies despite US sanction what you think they still surviving? China helping them out, need proves?
The facts are same as I mention in early post and add little more now, there is nothing in North Korea even you guys take it No Oil No natural sources No gold mines and if you invade it you have to give them food instead of taking their.
You keeping that Dictator for your own interests to continues your bases in Japan/Korea/Philippine etc as a protector. I have a lot of American and European friends we don't hate west but don't like the hypocritical attitude of your governments toward selective targets.