Bangladesh Air Force

[Destranator]

If its not clear already, Bangladesh is not serious about its military capability.

Agreed but what does the military have to do with BAF?

 

[Tom-tom]

The Indonesians and Koreans are bringing out their own jet fighter soon i hope. This could be viable alternative to western, or perhaps the Turkish one?.

 

[Abid123]

Bruh, Pakistan even inducted J-10CP and look at our economy. WTH is BAF doing? At this point, I would even be happy if India forces there Tejas upon you guys. Something is better than nothing.

I dont know much about the political situation in Bangladesh... But it could be because no country in the region or the world for that matter is threatening Bangladesh.

 

[Abid123]

Hasina notwithstanding, I still believe the Gripen-E and, later, KAI KF-21 are the best options for Bangladesh. The Gripen-E is available today, but the KF-21 is still some years out. However, long term, Bangladesh should work to solidify its East Asian ties. There's a whole world on the Pacific that's worth exploring in terms of defence, economy, science, medicine, etc.

I would like to see J-10C and Gripen in the BAF.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks for the exhaustive post.

I enjoyed reading it greatly.

Dealing with the US is like buying a beautiful rose with many thorns.

To get access to the goodies you have to deal with the conditions that come with it.

IMO this especially applies to Muslim nations for some reason.

I can’t see the same restrictions on say Singapore or South Korea.

No such restrictions on European nations or countries like Chile.

And it seems that Israel for some reasons gets carte blanche.

Ive always been fascinated by Soviet/Russian gear but they have never performed well in combat.

I dunno if it’s the gear itself or the tactics.

But for the BAF, they have a lot of work to do no matter what platform they end up buying.

https://www.facebook.com/DefsecaBD/posts/643079697251537

Despite the post above, I agree with this post from DEFSECA.

Thoughts?

Hasina govt. is total bootlicker of Indian govt. because they put her in power and support her ongoing things.

India does not want us to have offensively capable fighters and Hasina is going along with it.

Don't you think she would've gone for it already ?

We can certainly afford a few Billion and she would've gotten her cut from it too.

Problem is - Indians have warned Hasina of dire consequences if she buys fighters - she will not risk it.

What Hasina does NOT understand is that we also have leverage.

India benefits to the tune of $45 to $50 Billion yearly from us in uneven trade, employment of Indians and tourism.

This is why they were so eager to help in 1971. But that goodwill wore out a LONG time ago.

BD(and by extension Hasina) needs to recognize that BD doesn't have to be a satellite state for India. Her own power may be at risk(India might hold some political influence and be able to get her out of power) but overall..speaking geostrategically...India doesn't have as much power over BD as it would like to have. In fact BD can completely be independent of India.

The reason is simple...India already has two fronts and would really not want to have a third one. This is the prime reason they jumped on the chance in 1971 so they can secure their eastern land border. BD needs to recognize this...and use it as their strength...
...build better relations with China and Pakistan as a deterrent to India...so it can be used as a bargaining chip...giving BD a chance to deal with India politically on an even ground. It doesn't mean BD HAS to be hostile to India...just the possibility of it being hostile would be enough...
...and for that besides building a political relationship with China/Pakistan...u guys would have to build some military relationship as well...along with a nice and lean military power(for which BD certainly has the up and coming economy).

It's true China WILL sell to Myanmar...but will also sell to BD...bcuz that's money on the table. China will be glad to steal away an ally from India...and keep India on edge by threatening the chicken's neck along with BD as an ally. They will sell BD J10 if BD is buying. In fact if BD buys a large enough quantity, I see no reason why they won't allow BD some freedom to make changes(probably for some extra money)...like having BD's own datalink...or even radar and munitions. It opens up possibilities for BD to start JVs with China(or even other countries) and use that to build some local capabilities..take baby steps in building its own defense industry.

This doesn't mean an all in China's camp policy either. BD can buy from both the West and China. IMO BD should steer clear of Gripen...it's all the headache of western restrictions(staying in line) but a longer list of western countries to please. F16 offers an equal or better set of capabilities(depending on the block) to the Gripen. If western route is chosen...might as well go F16s than the Gripen...just keep in mind that US may not be as forthcoming to selling things like AShCM or anything that may seriously pose a threat to India...bcuz they wanna give India as much a freehand as possible from other threats ..so India can keep China busy...
...which is why I think J10 would be a better option for BAF.
BD can buy some western stuff(like attack helicopters, AWACs, radars, etc) just to keep a balance.
Any Russian option shouldn't be considered any longer. They have been making second tier stuff...which may as well be third tier now with recent developments.

In conclusion...BD doesn't have to be afraid of India...with a proper leader at the helm...it is India that will have to bend over backwards for BD to keep their east secure. Hasina might be staying in line dictated by India for her personal stake in power...but that's just a sad state of affairs for any country to have a leader like that. Sadly Pakistan is also suffering from such sell outs at the helm.

 

[Bilal9]

BD(and by extension Hasina) needs to recognize that BD doesn't have to be a satellite state for India. Her own power may be at risk(India might hold some political influence and be able to get her out of power) but overall..speaking geostrategically...India doesn't have as much power over BD as it would like to have. In fact BD can completely be independent of India.

The reason is simple...India already has two fronts and would really not want to have a third one. This is the prime reason they jumped on the chance in 1971 so they can secure their eastern land border. BD needs to recognize this...and use it as their strength...
...build better relations with China and Pakistan as a deterrent to India...so it can be used as a bargaining chip...giving BD a chance to deal with India politically on an even ground. It doesn't mean BD HAS to be hostile to India...just the possibility of it being hostile would be enough...
...and for that besides building a political relationship with China/Pakistan...u guys would have to build some military relationship as well...along with a nice and lean military power(for which BD certainly has the up and coming economy).

It's true China WILL sell to Myanmar...but will also sell to BD...bcuz that's money on the table. China will be glad to steal away an ally from India...and keep India on edge by threatening the chicken's neck along with BD as an ally. They will sell BD J10 if BD is buying. In fact if BD buys a large enough quantity, I see no reason why they won't allow BD some freedom to make changes(probably for some extra money)...like having BD's own datalink...or even radar and munitions. It opens up possibilities for BD to start JVs with China(or even other countries) and use that to build some local capabilities..take baby steps in building its own defense industry.

This doesn't mean an all in China's camp policy either. BD can buy from both the West and China. IMO BD should steer clear of Gripen...it's all the headache of western restrictions(staying in line) but a longer list of western countries to please. F16 offers an equal or better set of capabilities(depending on the block) to the Gripen. If western route is chosen...might as well go F16s than the Gripen...just keep in mind that US may not be as forthcoming to selling things like AShCM or anything that may seriously pose a threat to India...bcuz they wanna give India as much a freehand as possible from other threats ..so India can keep China busy...
...which is why I think J10 would be a better option for BAF.
BD can buy some western stuff(like attack helicopters, AWACs, radars, etc) just to keep a balance.
Any Russian option shouldn't be considered any longer. They have been making second tier stuff...which may as well be third tier now with recent developments.

In conclusion...BD doesn't have to be afraid of India...with a proper leader at the helm...it is India that will have to bend over backwards for BD to keep their east secure. Hasina might be staying in line dictated by India for her personal stake in power...but that's just a sad state of affairs for any country to have a leader like that. Sadly Pakistan is also suffering from such sell outs at the helm.

Very wise words - I will reply when I have a bit more time on my hands.

The reason is simple...India already has two fronts and would really not want to have a third one. This is the prime reason they jumped on the chance in 1971 so they can secure their eastern land border. BD needs to recognize this...and use it as their strength...
...build better relations with China and Pakistan as a deterrent to India...so it can be used as a bargaining chip...giving BD a chance to deal with India politically on an even ground. It doesn't mean BD HAS to be hostile to India...just the possibility of it being hostile would be enough...
...and for that besides building a political relationship with China/Pakistan...u guys would have to build some military relationship as well...along with a nice and lean military power(for which BD certainly has the up and coming economy).

Most military analysts/strategists in Bangladesh are of a similar opinion.

We have to "play" the Indians for now, Indians know this too.

 

[UKBengali]

IMO BD should steer clear of Gripen...it's all the headache of western restrictions(staying in line) but a longer list of western countries to please. F16 offers an equal or better set of capabilities(depending on the block) to the Gripen. If western route is chosen...might as well go F16s than the Gripen...just keep in mind that US may not be as forthcoming to selling things like AShCM or anything that may seriously pose a threat to India...

I thiink you need to do a whole lot more research before saying that Gripen is more of a headache than the F-16 for BD.

Once the US gives approval for Gripen engine export, then that is pretty much all the US influence gone as the engine will last the lifetime of the airframe.

Apart from Sweden, BD would only need to keep UK happy as they are the lead partner on the Meteor BVRAAM programme and also supply the Gripen's radar.

I would choose Gripen E over F-16V any day of the week.


PS - Gripen E would not be against India but to take care of Myanmar and so there would be no issues getting support and spare parts/missiles after the planes land in BD soil.. No Western fighter can be trusted against India.

 

[mb444]

I thiink you need to do a whole lot more research before saying that Gripen is more of a headache than the F-16 for BD.

Once the US gives approval for Gripen engine export, then that is pretty much all the US influence gone as the engine will last the lifetime of the airframe.

Apart from Sweden, BD would only need to keep UK happy as they are the lead partner on the Meteor BVRAAM programme and also supply the Gripen's radar.

I would choose Gripen E over F-16V any day of the week.


PS - Gripen E would not be against India but to take care of Myanmar and so there would be no issues getting support and spare parts/missiles after the planes land in BD soil.. No Western fighter can be trusted against India.

Whilst ppl like the Gripen it has to be pointed out it has lost every time it has bid against other fighters. It has not had a sale in like 15 years...maybe more.

All these countries can not be wrong.

The Indonesians and Koreans are bringing out their own jet fighter soon i hope. This could be viable alternative to western, or perhaps the Turkish one?.

Turkish jet is probably 20 years away before it can contemplate sale to foreign countries. Korean jet again for internal consumption, again probably a decade away before they have enough bandwidth to consider external sale.

Either way can we really take a chance with either of these two platform without any battle record or as yet nonexistent after sales capacity?

 

[UKBengali]

Whilst ppl like the Gripen it has to be pointed out it has lost every time it has bid against other fighters. It has not had a sale in like 15 years...maybe more.

All these countries can not be wrong.

Well Sweden sold the Gripen to Brazil back in 2014 and the Brazilians will end up buying something like over 100 of them.

Remember that Gripen is a lower cost but still high performance fighter that has a more modern design than F-16, and so with it's canard delta design will be superior to F-16 in BVR duels. Most of the air to air warfare these days is in the BVR realm.

Those that chose F-35, EFT and Rafale never seriously considered buying the Gripen as they were a step-up in performance levels. Also the F-16 usually won over Gripen due to geopolitical reasons as Sweden does not give you that relationship with a superpower like the USA.

For BD, that wants to keep away from the clutches of the USA and does not want to spend more for EFT/Rafale, then it in a straight contest between Gripen and F-16 it should choose Gripen every single time.

 

[Avicenna]

Bangladesh will probably buy the last Tejas coming off the line.

 

[mb444]

Well Sweden sold the Gripen to Brazil back in 2014 and the Brazilians will end up buying something like over 100 of them.

Remember that Gripen is a lower cost but still high performance fighter that has a more modern design than F-16, and so with it's canard delta design will be superior to F-16 in BVR duels. Most of the air to air warfare these days is in the BVR realm.

Those that chose F-35, EFT and Rafale never seriously considered buying the Gripen as they were a step-up in performance levels. Also the F-16 usually won over Gripen due to geopolitical reasons as Sweden does not give you that relationship with a superpower like the USA.

For BD, that wants to keep away from the clutches of the USA and does not want to spend more for EFT/Rafale, then it in a straight contest between Gripen and F-16 it should choose Gripen every single time.

I have nothing against Gripen, just saying they dont have the sale and always looses for various reasons.

BD need to keep that in mind as this brings its own set of risks.

I am partial to the EFT so I would love to have those in BAF.

 

[Gomig-21]

For BD, that wants to keep away from the clutches of the USA and does not want to spend more for EFT/Rafale, then it in a straight contest between Gripen and F-16 it should choose Gripen every single time.

Despite all that, and it's all true, the Gripen (whether it's the JAS-39A / B / C / D forget about the NG) is over $120 million per aircraft if I'm not mistaken. Brazil, which just ordered 36 NGs aircraft as an initial order paid about $150 million per aircraft but there was also ToT and some being built in Brazil etc. So their situation is slightly different, but it still gives one a clue that the Swedes are way over-pricing an aircraft that frankly probably isn't even close to the F-16 block 52 let alone the latest Viper.

The Brazilian contract includes 28 single-seat JAS-39Es and eight two-seat JAS-39Fs. The Saab Linkoping factory is responsible for the production of 13 units; Eight units are assembled at Embraer’s plant in Brazil. What shocked the military world was that the unit price of the JAS-39E was as high as 150 million USD/unit. Brazil plans to buy a total of 120 Gripen NGs.

The one good thing despite being a single engine aircraft is that it probably has the lowest cost per flight hour which gives huge dividends as far as pilot training goes and having lots of practice hours to become well-honed and top-notch pilots. Just some stuff to consider.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I thiink you need to do a whole lot more research before saying that Gripen is more of a headache than the F-16 for BD.

Once the US gives approval for Gripen engine export, then that is pretty much all the US influence gone as the engine will last the lifetime of the airframe.

I am too lazy to dig up this information myself...
...so if u could kindly provide me the numbers for ur claim above...it would be highly appreciated.

It sounds too good to be true...that an engine will last the lifetime of the Gripen's airframe without any support of US.
The engine used in Gripen is license produced by Volvo for the Gripen jet. As far as jet engines go...they require routine maintenance and part replacement to keep them running. I find it highly improbable that a jet engine that's put through so much stress(high velocity of the turbine blade and heat) can last without parts being replaced at certain intervals.

Apart from Sweden, BD would only need to keep UK happy as they are the lead partner on the Meteor BVRAAM programme and also supply the Gripen's radar.

I would choose Gripen E over F-16V any day of the week.


PS - Gripen E would not be against India but to take care of Myanmar and so there would be no issues getting support and spare parts/missiles after the planes land in BD soil.. No Western fighter can be trusted against India.

U r conveniently ignoring US influence over UK and Sweden.
As for the jet against Myanmar and not India...well the same applies for F16...a jet doesn't define who the enemies are. So any pros and cons are still the same ..like the west cutting off support in case BD comes into conflict with India.

 

[UKBengali]

Despite all that, and it's all true, the Gripen (whether it's the JAS-39A / B / C / D forget about the NG) is over $120 million per aircraft if I'm not mistaken. Brazil, which just ordered 36 NGs aircraft as an initial order paid about $150 million per aircraft but there was also ToT and some being built in Brazil etc. So their situation is slightly different, but it still gives one a clue that the Swedes are way over-pricing an aircraft that frankly probably isn't even close to the F-16 block 52 let alone the latest Viper.

The Brazilian contract includes 28 single-seat JAS-39Es and eight two-seat JAS-39Fs. The Saab Linkoping factory is responsible for the production of 13 units; Eight units are assembled at Embraer’s plant in Brazil. What shocked the military world was that the unit price of the JAS-39E was as high as 150 million USD/unit. Brazil plans to buy a total of 120 Gripen NGs.

The one good thing despite being a single engine aircraft is that it probably has the lowest cost per flight hour which gives huge dividends as far as pilot training goes and having lots of practice hours to become well-honed and top-notch pilots. Just some stuff to consider.

Gripen E has flyaway cost of 80 million US dollars and that is similar to F-16V.

That “unit price” includes infrastructure, maintenance and a weapons package.

As there is now around a 200 production run for Gripen E from both Brazil and Sweden, anyone else ordering should be able to enjoy at least some economies of scale, especially if they order a minimum of 2 squadrons(36 planes).

PS - Gripen E is superior to F-16 Block 52 and similar to F-16V in air to air role. F-16V has better electronics but has an older design that is not as good in the BVR high-altitude flight envelope.

 

[UKBengali]

It sounds too good to be true...that an engine will last the lifetime of the Gripen's airframe without any support of US.
The engine used in Gripen is license produced by Volvo for the Gripen jet. As far as jet engines go...they require routine maintenance and part replacement to keep them running. I find it highly improbable that a jet engine that's put through so much stress(high velocity of the turbine blade and heat) can last without parts being replaced at certain intervals.

Sweden builds the engine itself with I think only the engine core is wholly supplied by the US.

All maintenance and overhaul can be done by the Swedes and so with a 6000 hour lifespan of the engine is enough for the whole lifecycle of the airframe.

Volvo delivers extra life to Gripen engine | AIN

Volvo Aero has delivered a number of post-certification enhancements to the RM12 twin turboshaft engine that powers the Saab Gripen.

www.ainonline.com

"Volvo Aero has delivered a number of post-certification enhancements to the RM12 twin turboshaft engine that powers the Saab Gripen. Some of these have been adopted by General Electric, whose F404 was adapted by Volvo for the single-engine Swedish fighter."

"The company also developed a new front frame for the RM12, with a stronger casing that reduced the number of struts by three, to 15, and used a smaller number of stiffer blades. Volvo has worked with GE to develop a full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) for the RM12, having, itself, pioneered a digital engine control for the engine"


As you can see Volvo really made improvements and unique modifications to the GE engine and not just an assembly job.

All parts that will wear out during the engines 6000 hour expected lifespan are manufactured by Sweden.

Your post, although well meaning, was a little sparse on research on what you were posting about.