Bangladesh Air Force

[mb444]

SAM development is one of the most difficult things in missile technology. They should start with basic ballistic missiles which is quite easy.

That is where they are starting.... but the intention is to have a comprehensive system.

In absence of an effective BAF this is the only option left to us.

 

[mb444]

" The chinese have put a spanner in the works regarding J10. They are uncomfortable with BDs western tilt but this issue seems to be a surmountable issue, except.... "

What do you mean by that sentence?

BD is being pushed to the quad. BD will be unable to resist this pressure as China can not replace western trade.

But being part of quad is directly against our strategic interest.

BD and China interest convergence is permanent..... it can adapt to temporary issues such as Rohingya or the Quad. Both sides will be pragmatic and keep alive long term interest.

If BD wants J10 at the end of the day Chinese will sell it because it provides a platform that would be purely pointed at india. We wont be able to link to potential F16s and the weapons packages will be different. We will simply have to accept that. The same would be for potential subs if we buy chinese.

BD should go full western militarily and begin indeginious production. Alongside tightly embrace china economically and position ourselves ambiguously to maintain maximum operational freedom for as long as possible. Ultimately a choice would need to be made...hopefully 20 years down the line when the world has become multipolar. BD will come out as a middle power.... it needs to time it for maximum benefit.

 

[bluesky]

Unrelated to BAF.

But a nice article about Egypt's decision to buy Rafale and Mig-29M/SU-35 despite having 200+ F-16s.

Illustrates why Bangladesh may have reservations to buy American fighters and why the Rafale may be a better option.

Understanding Egypt’s 54 Rafale and 24 Su-35 Jets Procurement

Egypt increased its 24 Rafale aircraft order with Dassault Aviation to 54 by signing up to buy 30 more jets in May 2021; In addition, it is in the middle of procuring 24 Su-35 jets from Russia. The Rafale fleet will bolster the Egyptian Air Force (EAF) with attack capabilities and reduce...

www.defenseworld.net

The reason why a country diversifies its source of military procurement is basically the thought of not dep[ending on one single source. Maintaining a good diplomatic relationship may be another reason.

 

[PoondolotoPandalum]

Assuming it's true, and not another "source: trust me, bro" pulled out of arse statement from the all reliable Defseca (sorry for any Defseca people watching), here's my opinion:

Bangladesh should've stuck to the Mi-28s from the very beginning instead of daydreaming about the most expensive attack helicopter ever sold (AH-64E). Mi-28's are a far more cost-effective option for a country like Bangladesh, which happens to also operate Mi-171s that share similar components.

The Mii-28 is an incredibly rugged piece of machinery. There was a famous magazine article of a US pilot's impression of flying the Mi-28 back in the early 1990s (when Russia opened up for these things), forgot the name of the US-based magazine. He said it was the most rugged machine he ever operated, yet it flew more precisely and with more agility than any rotorcraft he have ever flown, of any class. Bear in mind, thanks to its heavy armor and rugged airframe, the Mi-28 weighs about a ton more than a Mi-17 cargo chopper (empty weight).

The Mi-28 and the apache were originally designed for slightly different styles of fighting. The mi-28 was more of a close-in brawler using its heavy armor (by far the most armored rotorcraft in history) to get close to the troops and provide close air support, using primarily its very powerful shiponov autocannon (much more powerful and accurate than the apache's chain gun) and rocket pods. For anti-tank roles, it was initially equipped with Shturm anti-tank missiles, and then ATAKA, both Soviet-era laser-guided anti-tank missiles. They do the job just fine for the sort of battlefields they envisioned fighting in, namely huge, relatively flat planes of land

The Apache was more of a dedicated anti-tank vehicle. Because NATO had to face the overwhelming numerical superiority of Soviet armor in the cold war (they still do now). So they placed a higher emphasis on dedicated anti-tank platforms. The Apache initially fired laser-guided hellfires, which are very similar to the ATAKA missiles fired by the Havoc. The Apache however has very thin armor, it's barely more armored than a Blackhawk. It's really not designed to take many hits, at least not as much as the Mi-28. So it relied on picking off enemy tanks at a distance. Its closed air support capability, by getting as close to the troops as possible, is more limited than the Mi-28.

The Apache-D was the next evolution, with the introduction of the millimetric radar and radar-guided hellfire missiles. That introduced a whole new capability such as all-weather effectiveness (radar waves aren't as affected by weather and low light as laser), as well as locking on and firing at a target that's not within the line of sight. So an apache can hide behind a row of trees with only its radar showing, take a look at the battlefield, identify the most critical threats (it's the advanced computer that does this automatically), and lunch radar-guided missiles at them simultaneously. Arguably the no-1 best feature of the apache weapon system if you ask me. This is something the Russian's did not have until recently, mostly because there wasn't really a need for such capability for the sort of conflicts they envisioned.

The Apache-E is the final evolution, upgraded engines, new data integration and management systems, improved hellfires, and ability to control UAV/UCAV's. But a lot of that capability, especially the net-centric ones, are pretty much irrelevant for a country like Bangladesh which BARELY has a modern military for it to work in synergy with.

The Mi-28 also evolved a lot throughout the years. It also received a top-mounted radar (N025 or N025E downgraded export model). The ones designed for domestic use only for the Russian armed forces are in my opinion the most capable and overpowered attack helicopter on earth. It's packed to the brim with the sophisticated electronic warfare system fitted to a rotorcraft (I suggest reading up on Russia's EW and ECM capability, it's an area they have a massive body of knowledge on which even exceeds the west). It can also HERMES fire and forget anti-tank missiles with over-the-horizon capability (just like the latest hellfires). And it outranges any hellfire variant by a considerable margin. But sadly, these features are not offered for export. Russia will keep its most advanced technologies to itself.

I'm not sure what the weapon packages are on offer to BD, but I suspect it'll be 80mm rocket pods (we already have them for Mi-171s) and ATAKA ATGM's, or possible AT-15 Khriizantema, which is a very capable dual seeker ATGM with a humongous warhead.

Both helicopters possess much more capability than what the Bangladesh army/airforce can be expected to extract for them, but the Mi-28 is SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper. People also need to realize the nature of US defense companies like Boeing and their subcontractors to understand just how bloated the cost of their equipment is. Just cuz they are much more expensive than the equivalent Russian or even European hardware doesn't make them better necessarily. Russian gear is cheap bc low labor costs, full technological autonomy (they don't rely on technology or parts from other countries as US companies), and not having such a complex internationally spanning supply chain as US companies.

Also bear in mind Apache's are notorious hanger queens. They need a lot of pampering and care to get them running in tip-top conditions. I know people say Russian choppers crash blah blah blah, but more Land Cruisers break down than Range Rovers, despite being a million times more reliable. Simply because they're deployed more and see the roughest actions. Even the US admitted in Afghanistan, where Mi-17s conduct missions initially set for the likes of their Blackhawks and chinooks.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

They are still dangling the 100+ MMRCA order over the noses of the French. If this drags on until a not-so-India-friendly admin takes charge in BD, India might arm twist the French into stopping supplies to BD. The French care about money; They might choose not to geopardise a deal worth tens of billions for keeping a nickel and dime customer like BD.

Agreed. Also should restrict ''co-operation'' to just shoujonno shakkhat.
I dont want want BAF to pick up any bad habits (and their notoriously bad Military MRO facilities that are partly responsible for this)

 

[Avicenna]

Bangladesh Bank asked to transfer foreign exchange reserve from US soon

https://thefinancialexpress.com.bd/economy/bangladesh-bank-asked-to-transfer-foreign-exchange-reserve-from-us-soon-1640600452 Bangladesh Bank asked to transfer foreign exchange reserve from US soon FE ONLINE REPORT | Published: December 27, 2021 16:20:53 | Updated: December 27, 2021 23:52:07...

defence.pk

I dunno what's going on.

But it looks like Rafale and J-10 it is.

Wow.

If its gonna be J-10, then lets get on with it.

No need to delay.

Edit:

Dhaka agrees to Washington's military aid agreement

A State Department official said, "The administration led by President Joe Biden has proposed agreements with various countries, including Bangladesh, to ensure future grants." This is not an agreement for country-specific or Bangladesh alone. Bangladesh agrees to US military aid agreement...

defence.pk

WTF is going on?

 

[Destranator]

Agreed. Also should restrict ''co-operation'' to just shoujonno shakkhat.
I dont want want BAF to pick up any bad habits (and their notoriously bad Military MRO facilities that are partly responsible for this)
View attachment 803779

Mind you IAF logs a lot of flying hours on all types of aircraft - too much for their maintenance to keep up. The level of operational readiness IAF aims to maintain is too much for the existing fleet which is why they keep screaming for more fighter jets.
We are not in a position to criticise as BAF is completely untested for such operating environments and very likely crashes more per flying hour than IAF.
The flying hours per pilot is so poor that many BAF pilots quit out of frustration. You often see Wing Commanders fly Yak-130's due to lack of fighter jets.
Despite the crashes, the IAF pilots are a lot more combat ready than BAF pilots as they log many times more flying hours.
I know it is fun to ride the India bashing band wagon but we should be objective.

PAF is by far is the best air force in the region.

 

[Destranator]

I dunno what's going on.

But it looks like Rafale and J-10 it is.

Wow.

If its gonna be J-10, then lets get on with it.

No need to delay.

That would be very unbecoming of BAF.
Brace for prolonged thumbtwiddle on determining F-7 replacements.

 

[Bilal9]

Mind you IAF logs a lot of flying hours on all types of aircraft - too much for their maintenance to keep up. The level of operational readiness IAF aims to maintain is too much for the existing fleet which is why they keep screaming for more fighter jets.
We are not in a position to criticise as BAF is completely untested for such operating environments and very likely crashes more per flying hour than IAF.
The flying hours per pilot is so poor that many BAF pilots quit out of frustration. You often see Wing Commanders fly Yak-130's due to lack of fighter jets.
Despite the crashes, the IAF pilots are a lot more combat ready than BAF pilots as they log many times more flying hours.
I know it is fun to ride the India bashing band wagon but we should be objective.

PAF is by far is the best air force in the region.

I agree with the last sentence, PAF actually has their stuff together as far as operational and maintenance standards.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

Brace for prolonged thumbtwiddle on determining F-7 replacements.

at this point i would take even the Mig-35 the situation is THAT bad wrt to fighters.

 

[Avicenna]

at this point i would take even the Mig-35 the situation is THAT bad wrt to fighters.

No thanks.

That would be a TOTAL waste.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

No thanks.

That would be a TOTAL waste.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

the EAF combo @Avicenna

 

[Avicenna]

the EAF combo @Avicenna

View attachment 804355

There is ZERO geopolitical advantage to source critical systems from Russia.

Mi-28 I would say is non-critical.

MRCA or MMRCA IS critical.

Russia neither helps you against India or Myanmar.

At least with China (J-10), you can counter India.

And with the West (France/UK/US) you can counter Myanmar.

With Russia, doesn't help you against either Russia or Myanmar.

Rafale and J-10C is completely reasonable.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

There is ZERO geopolitical advantage to source critical systems from Russia.

Mi-28 I would say is non-critical.

MRCA or MMRCA IS critical.

Russia neither helps you against India or Myanmar.

At least with China (J-10), you can counter India.

And with the West (France/UK/US) you can counter Myanmar.

With Russia, doesn't help you against either Russia or Myanmar.

Rafale and J-10C is completely reasonable.

Mig-35 is better than whatever we have now. prepare to wait for ages for whatever F-7 replacement they choose (if any) BD Civilian and military leadership is putting national security at risk.