Bangladesh Air Force

[Arthur]

I'm curious what you think of Serniabat's speech? (From Oct 2019)

IMO, it was fairly straight forward and honest.

Notably, the example of Singapore vs Sri Lanka. i.e. Awareness of other small nations having a strong air arm.

A different outcome if BAF was better equipped regarding 2017 Rohingya debacle. i.e. Myanmar wouldn't have tried it in the first place. i.e. deterrence.

And overall a rather honest assessment and public lament of the state of affairs of the BAF.

Thoughts?

Rohyinga matter is not related to BAF. MM did the same In the '90s & 80's when BAF had relative superiority over MAF.

But military power would have hastened repatriation like it did in '90s.

If we get clearance from America since we have to sign two papers before we get these things , we can also get the AH-64Es too !

But again Bangladesh government scared if America tires to intervene in the future

Only road block to BAF getting Gripen C is SAAB itself. They steadily refuses to sell them to BAF, actually did it multiple time. They were pushing the E variant all along.
USA has no reason to block such a sell or sanction BD later on. Strategically BAF buying Gripen will be a win situation for them.

 

[Destranator]

Stolen American technology doesn't count ,

Dude, you should really be careful with how you word your posts. Don't fall for baits set up to start animosities with friendly nations on here.

Thanks for tagging me, but I have a limited understanding of current and evolving security threats to Bangladesh.
First we must define the need and then address it systematically. Do you need your air force to:

- defend disputed territory
- deter adversaries
- safe guard near shore and blue water resources
- extend your borders
- internal security

Modern warfare is no longer about just fighter jets, you need supporting assets mid air refuelers and C4ISR to stand a chance against India or China - if either threaten your national security in the future. I'd extend @gambit 's notion of investing in people and building institutes which attract the best talent due to its proud legacy, such as the USAF 34th BS that participated in the Dolittle raid on Japan on Apr 18, 1942.

Imagine going to battle in awe of those who came before you, inspiring new generations to greater heights.

How effective do you think network-centric warfare would be for BAF given how tiny our airspace is? Do you agree with the notion that Bangladesh needs high performance jets to counter Indian and Bumese Su-30s, Rafales and MiG-29s WVR given the tight air space? Mind you, BAF jets will not be taking off until enemy jets are already detected to be approaching our airspace so the time window for reaction is very limited.

 

[Destranator]

Only road block to BAF getting Gripen C is SAAB itself. They steadily refuses to sell them to BAF, actually did it multiple time. They were pushing the E variant all along.
USA has no reason to block such a sell or sanction BD later on. Actually strategically BAF buying Gripend will be a an win situation for them.

How do you know SAAB refused BAF?
Also, why on Earth would we want to get old Gripen C's?

I would love SAAB set up BAC and BAF from scratch for future operation and assembly of Gripens.

12 Ex South African Gripen Cs refurbished with AESA radar, latest electronics by Sweden and with Meteor can be supplied within 12-18 months.

South Africa has 12 in permanent storage that it does not need.

BAF sends it's best pilots to learn how to fly the plane and then when they are in BD, they should be pretty much good to go.
You do not need advanced tactics and strategy to take on the MAF and their pilots will be in fear of such a potent plane in BAF hands.

Just these 12 Gripen Cs with AESA radar/upgraded electronics and Meteor can neutralise the whole MAF.

Yet another fantastic opportunity BAF imbeciles will not utilise.

 

[SpaceMan18]

Dude, you should really be careful with how you word your posts. Don't fall for baits set up to start animosities with friendly nations on here.


How effective do you think network-centric warfare would be for BAF given how tiny our airspace is? Do you agree with the notion that Bangladesh needs high performance jets to counter Indian and Bumese Su-30s, Rafales and MiG-29s WVR given the tight air space? Mind you, BAF jets will not be taking off until enemy jets are already detected to be approaching our airspace so the time window for reaction is very limited.

Sure , but yeah SAAB would like to work with us but again it all depends on the government and BAF.

In our aerospace and aeronautical university, there are already a lot of nations helping us and we can take Sweden in.

We have to atleast make indigenous helicopters and drones along with trainers to get our engineers experience to eventually build 4th gen and future 5th generation fighters

Rohyinga matter is not related to BAF. MM did the same In the '90s & 80's when BAF had relative superiority over MAF.

But military power would have hastened repatriation like it did in '90s.


Only road block to BAF getting Gripen C is SAAB itself. They steadily refuses to sell them to BAF, actually did it multiple time. They were pushing the E variant all along.
USA has no reason to block such a sell or sanction BD later on. Actually strategically BAF buying Gripend will be a an win situation for them.

America plays dirty , so yes it can be a win win situation but again BAF is drunk so

 

[Arthur]

How do you know SAAB refused BAF?
Also, why on Earth would we want to get old Gripen C's?

I would love SAAB set up BAC and BAF from scratch for future operation and assembly of Gripens.

It's already more than a decade old matter. BAF had fund issues & evaluated it for a bit. But SAAB wanted them to pitch in for the E.

It was after that BAF went for the BGI's. Otherwise it would have been Gripen C & Super Albatross.

 

[PDF]

BD is not going to be entertain any war and damage its economy....

We potentially have two adversaries.... one is aligned to US and one to China.

As such we require two platform to have operational freedom.

I disagree with the deduction. Nevertheless, you would know better than me about your interests.

I would like to however say that there is some misunderstanding or mis-reading about U.S. The cautiousness is too much to the extend of phobia.

For those who are a bit skeptical, do remember that Pakistan being full in China's camp still shot the Indian jets last year using American aircrafts with American BVR AIM120. I don't foresee Bangladesh to have worse relationship with US than Pakistan ever. But, yea, there might be things I am not catering for.

 

[Destranator]

I disagree with the deduction. Nevertheless, you would know better than me about your interests.

I would like to however say that there is some misunderstanding or mis-reading about U.S. The cautiousness is too much to the extend of phobia.

For those who are a bit skeptical, do remember that Pakistan being full in China's camp still shot the Indian jets last year using American aircrafts with American BVR AIM120. I don't foresee Bangladesh to have worse relationship with US than Pakistan ever. But, yea, there might be things I am not catering for.

The US Congress is a red tape behemoth. They can block supply of GE Engines under various pretexts. I too want a combo of J-10s and Gripens to form BAF's backbone.

 

[PDF]

The US Congress is a red tape behemoth. They can block supply of GE Engines under various pretexts. I too want a combo of J-10s and Gripens to form BAF's backbone.

Okay, and why not only Chinese?
BAF can also have a single platform i.e Typhoons if you have reservations from US and China.

Is having at least 2 different platforms a must?

 

[mb444]

I disagree with the deduction. Nevertheless, you would know better than me about your interests.

I would like to however say that there is some misunderstanding or mis-reading about U.S. The cautiousness is too much to the extend of phobia.

For those who are a bit skeptical, do remember that Pakistan being full in China's camp still shot the Indian jets last year using American aircrafts with American BVR AIM120. I don't foresee Bangladesh to have worse relationship with US than Pakistan ever. But, yea, there might be things I am not catering for.

The strings are overblown....i agree with your position.....

I was trying to explain the two platform rationalle..... its offcourse extremely inefficient...

 

[Destranator]

Okay, and why not only Chinese?
BAF can also have a single platform i.e Typhoons if you have reservations from US and China.

Is having at least 2 different platforms a must?

The Chinese might refuse to supply spares and ammo in the event of conflict with Burma. The Rohingya crisis was a good wake up call for BD where China hung BD out to dry despite being strong allies up until that point.
Burma is strategically more important to China for gas supplies and port access.

Single platform "efficiency" will mean nothing if we run out of spares.

We have operational needs for 6-10 fighter squadrons. We cannot afford that many EFTs.

 

[mb444]

It's already more than a decade old matter. BAF had fund issues & evaluated it for a bit. But SAAB wanted them to pitch in for the E.

It was after that BAF went for the BGI's. Otherwise it would have been Gripen C & Super Albatross.

No dude..... 16 bgi cost less than $150m....i think it was $120mn or something....

It was stop gap solution yes but that descision had nothing to do with Gripen from what i recall....

BAF did not have the money for Gripen...

 

[dbc]

How effective do you think network-centric warfare would be for BAF given how tiny our airspace is? Do you agree with the notion that Bangladesh needs high performance jets to counter Indian and Bumese Su-30s, Rafales and MiG-29s WVR given the tight air space? Mind you, BAF jets will not be taking off until enemy jets are already detected to be approaching our airspace so the time window for reaction is very limited.

Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a 'tiny airspace' compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.

By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.

 

[PDF]

Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a 'tiny airspace' compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.

By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.

You might not agree and I am bringing in Pakistan alot but, 27th Feb 2019 is great example of the result a net-centric C4ISR capability brings. PAF executed a successful counter-strike in a hostile airspace with a relatively large with potent aricrafts Airforce. But Indian AF issues of multiple assets of different origins lack of good interoperability costed them dearly.
In my opinion, the only thing helping PAF against IAF is the lack of of net-centric warfare (or more so, weaker net-centric warfare capability) with a relatively worse operational planning. PAF is in deep trouble if IAF works on these two aspects.

 

[SpaceMan18]

Network centric warfare is a well established doctrine and it is more relevant when the airspace is compressed. Because a 'tiny airspace' compresses your reaction time and data from these connected assets / sensors will allow you to anticipate enemy actions better and respond more effectively.

By high performance I assume you mean 4.5 Gen then I agree. But the 4.5 Gen platforms are less effective when operating disconnected from the network. Put another way one squadron of network linked 4.5 Gen fighter is more effective than three squadrons of the same type.

That's why we need AWACS and Eletronic warfare to enhance our capabilities to engage an enemy quickly as possible.

We do use data link and I don't think Myanmar is capable of jamming it

The strings are overblown....i agree with your position.....

I was trying to explain the two platform rationalle..... its offcourse extremely inefficient...

MRCA states the aircraft must have twin engines I think , the F-7 deal should not be merged with the MRCA deal

MRCA will be twin engine aircrafts
While F-7 replacements will be single engine

BAF is making these decisions not me

 

[dbc]

You might not agree and I am bringing in Pakistan alot but, 27th Feb 2019 is great example of the result a net-centric C4ISR capability brings. PAF executed a successful counter-strike in a hostile airspace with a relatively large with potent aricrafts Airforce. But Indian AF issues of multiple assets of different origins lack of good interoperability costed them dearly.
In my opinion, the only thing helping PAF against IAF is the lack of of net-centric warfare (or more so, weaker net-centric warfare capability) with a relatively worse operational planning. PAF is in deep trouble if IAF works on these two aspects.

No I don't disagree. The IAF is not a a good yardstick to measure the PAF. I think you should compare yourself to the Turks or Israel - just IMHO.

That's why we need AWACS and Eletronic warfare to enhance our capabilities to engage an enemy quickly as possible.

We do use data link and I don't think Myanmar is capable of jamming it


MRCA states the aircraft must have twin engines I think , the F-7 deal should not be merged with the MRCA deal

MRCA will be twin engine aircrafts
While F-7 replacements will be single engine

BAF is making these decisions not me

There is no such thing as jam proof data link - except if you are hardwired into the physical network and not OTA. The best you can do is build (jam) resistance and resilience (multiple pathways) in your network.