Bangladesh Air Force

[Michael Corleone]

The below is an ideal new fighter fleet composition for BAF to build towards gradually by 2040 (which will not materialise. Don't get your hopes up from this post or bitch about "pipedreaming").

• 2 sqd EFTs (T3)
• 3 sqd Gripen F's with ToT (including SAAB's assistance in building up BAC from scratch, setting up training regimen for technicians, and fixing the aviation university's curriculumn)
• 3 sqd J-10C's

This composition will benefit in a few major ways:

1. Exposure to and compatibility with quality Western aeronautics, avionics and weapon systems, providing qualitative edge over Burma and paving way for future upgrades to cutting edge tech in the distant future.
2. Access to Western tech not available to Burma (EFTs, Gripens)
3. Access to tech not accessible to India (J-10s)
4. Redundancy against Western strings/sanctions (J-10s).
5. Better understanding of relative advances in Chinese and Western fighter tech.

Again, the above is what should happen and not what will happen, thanks to BAF.

This will not happen because it’s illogical

 

[Destranator]

This will not happen because it’s illogical

"Illogical" why (BAF incompetence aside)?
Detailed reasoning please beyond one-liners.

The above is an optimal minimum, to meet prevalent military challenges that we face, which would be achievable if BAF were not morons.

It's a given that this will not happen.

 

[Avicenna]

Ideal option: a good number of a modern Western multirole type.

Another option: split buy of a Western and Chinese type.

What should not be options are Russian or Indian types.

This is not rocket science people.

What's troubling is the gap in capability between BAF and MyAF.

It takes time to effectively utilize new types.

BAF hasn't even placed an order yet apparently.

What happens if hostility breaks out? (Burma is run by anti Bengali thugs)

Cry to the UN?

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

"Illogical" why (BAF incompetence aside)?

Gripen + J10c

 

[Destranator]

Gripen + J10c

Why is it illogical? We do not live in an ideal world where we can just rely on one source for single engine fighters to streamline maintenance.
Mind you single engine fighters will form the backbone of the fleet and therefore redundancy is essential.

Western supplies may be frozen in the event of conflict with India and the same goes for Chinese suppliers against Burma.

Western tech is better but comes with strings.
Chinese tech is inferior but comes without strings and with credit.

Beyond 2040-50, Bangladesh-West relations might graduate to a position where strings become non-existent. We can then go all-in with Western tech for 5th/6th Gen tech.

Again, let us not forget that BAF is BAF.

Another option: split buy of a Western and Chinese type.

This is THE option for BAF (which they are too stupid to utilise). Bangladesh is no NATO or Japan which can bank on uninterrupted Western supplies.

 

[Michael Corleone]

"Illogical" why (BAF incompetence aside)?
Detailed reasoning please beyond one-liners.

The above is an optimal minimum, to meet prevalent military challenges that we face, which would be achievable if BAF were not morons.

It's a given that this will not happen.

Two platforms is a difficult task for even the best air forces. But you propose 3 different platforms that will need airmen trained for maintenance of three different suppliers not to mention the cost associated with spares not just based on numbers but the different varieties as well. This approach is nothing short of Indonesia’s incompetence at maintaining a decent submarine force, all they bought were at some point cannibalized... or if we’re sticking with air forces, india... less than 70% of flanker platform is operational at any given time and heir mix of Jaguars, mirages and migs are nightmare for them...
what bd needs is as cost effective aircraft that meets capabilities for latest operational scenarios.
bangladesh can’t afford to lose an eft (accident or otherwise) Bangladesh certainly won’t bat an eye if they lost a f7 BGI tomorrow...
in that regards as air chief talked about credible deterrence, my approach will be to stick with one platform for the foreseeable future, platform may be single engined, what matters us numbers.
I would sign a contract for 3 squadrons of j10c with an optional contract for 4 more. 3x16=48 j10c within 2-3 years isn’t impossible to achieve and gives our airforce the breathing room it needs. A further 64 aircraft purchase ensures airforce can maintain effective deterrence and control over the airspace. Fancy fighters can always come at a later stage when the economy is bigger.
But here’s what’s actually going to happen
BAF will get a white elephant 16 EFT or whatever platform that doesnt provide adequate strength and then stick with it for the next 30 years

 

[SpaceMan18]

Because they're morons.

Um man uh , Gripens use American engines

Two platforms is a difficult task for even the best air forces. But you propose 3 different platforms that will need airmen trained for maintenance of three different suppliers not to mention the cost associated with spares not just based on numbers but the different varieties as well. This approach is nothing short of Indonesia’s incompetence at maintaining a decent submarine force, all they bought were at some point cannibalized... or if we’re sticking with air forces, india... less than 70% of flanker platform is operational at any given time and heir mix of Jaguars, mirages and migs are nightmare for them...
what bd needs is as cost effective aircraft that meets capabilities for latest operational scenarios.
bangladesh can’t afford to lose an eft (accident or otherwise) Bangladesh certainly won’t bat an eye if they lost a f7 BGI tomorrow...
in that regards as air chief talked about credible deterrence, my approach will be to stick with one platform for the foreseeable future, platform may be single engined, what matters us numbers.
I would sign a contract for 3 squadrons of j10c with an optional contract for 4 more. 3x16=48 j10c within 2-3 years isn’t impossible to achieve and gives our airforce the breathing room it needs. A further 64 aircraft purchase ensures airforce can maintain effective deterrence and control over the airspace. Fancy fighters can always come at a later stage when the economy is bigger.
But here’s what’s actually going to happen
BAF will get a white elephant 16 EFT or whatever platform that doesnt provide adequate strength and then stick with it for the next 30 years

The logical option is J-10cs , but relying on China for fighters may back stab us when we will use it against Myanmar.

Numbers matter here , honestly Gripen was a good option but again it uses American engines.

Let's not forget these jets are nothing without AWACS or MRSAMs , we also have to eventually buy longer range SAMs in the future.

Then comes 5th gen in about 2028-2030 , BAF has no Fúcking vision whatsoever and will always be a backward branch

We still don't even have a partner for our next gen frigate program, Navy is honestly stealing money just to buy low tier shîtty frigates with stupid short range SAMs on it.

 

[Destranator]

Two platforms is a difficult task for even the best air forces. But you propose 3 different platforms that will need airmen trained for maintenance of three different suppliers not to mention the cost associated with spares not just based on numbers but the different varieties as well. This approach is nothing short of Indonesia’s incompetence at maintaining a decent submarine force, all they bought were at some point cannibalized... or if we’re sticking with air forces, india... less than 70% of flanker platform is operational at any given time and heir mix of Jaguars, mirages and migs are nightmare for them...

Many small air forces operate three different platforms. It is not that difficult to manage maintenance regimen for three different platforms. Even BAF has past experience in maintaining three different fighter platforms.

India's maintenance struggles are unique in that it is a poor country with a massive air force managed by incompetent people. Also unreliability of Russian equipment and Russians as suppliers also plays a huge part in India's struggles. BAF's need of 6-10 squadrons is minuscule in comparision.

By the time BAF would transition to three new platforms, MiG-29s and F-7s will be out of the picture.

what bd needs is as cost effective aircraft that meets capabilities for latest operational scenarios.
bangladesh can’t afford to lose an eft (accident or otherwise) Bangladesh certainly won’t bat an eye if they lost a f7 BGI tomorrow...

BAF needs at least a couple of squadrons of high performance (manoeuvrability + range + payload) air superiority fighters to strike deep into enemy territory and counter Su-30 and MiG-29 variants. Numbers alone cannot fulfill this particular role.

Such fighters will be costly to operate no matter where you get them from. EFT would at least be reliable.

in that regards as air chief talked about credible deterrence, my approach will be to stick with one platform for the foreseeable future, platform may be single engined, what matters us numbers.

You cannot achieve "credible deterrence" when you keep yourself exposed for being hamstrung by the supplier (West against India and China against Burma)
We do need single engine fighters both in numbers and with redundancy.
If we are forced to stick to only two platforms, I'd forget EFTs and get J-10s and Gripens in numbers with as much ToT as possible for both.

BAF should forget whatever vanity project on building trainers they are up to and instead collaborate with SAAB to prepare BAC, the aviation university and BAF to operate, maintain, overhaul and eventually assemble and manufacture (spares at least) Gripens.

I would sign a contract for 3 squadrons of j10c with an optional contract for 4 more. 3x16=48 j10c within 2-3 years isn’t impossible to achieve and gives our airforce the breathing room it needs. A further 64 aircraft purchase ensures airforce can maintain effective deterrence and control over the airspace. Fancy fighters can always come at a later stage when the economy is bigger.

Agreed. The above is a no brainer. I cannot find any justification as to why BAF has not ordered J-10s yet.

But here’s what’s actually going to happen
BAF will get a white elephant 16 EFT or whatever platform that doesnt provide adequate strength and then stick with it for the next 30 years

Agreed again. I fear this is exactly what is going to happen.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Many small air forces operate three different platforms. It is not that difficult to manage maintenance regimen for three different platforms. Even BAF has past experience in maintaining three different fighter platforms.

India's maintenance struggles are unique in that it is a poor country with a massive air force managed by incompetent people. Also unreliability of Russian equipment and Russians as suppliers also plays a huge part in India's struggles. BAF's need of 6-10 squadrons is minuscule in comparision.

By the time BAF would transition to three new platforms, MiG-29s and F-7s will be out of the picture.



BAF needs at least a couple of squadrons of high performance (manoeuvrability + range + payload) air superiority fighters to strike deep into enemy territory and counter Su-30 and MiG-29 variants. Numbers alone cannot fulfill this particular role.

Such fighters will be costly to operate no matter where you get them from. EFT would at least be reliable.



You cannot achieve "credible deterrence" when you keep yourself exposed for being hamstrung by the supplier (West against India and China against Burma)
We do need single engine fighters both in numbers and with redundancy.
If we are forced to stick to only two platforms, I'd forget EFTs and get J-10s and Gripens in numbers with as much ToT as possible for both.

BAF should forget whatever vanity project on building trainers they are up to and instead collaborate with SAAB to prepare BAC, the aviation university and BAF to operate, maintain, overhaul and eventually assemble and manufacture (spares at least) Gripens.




Agreed. The above is a no brainer. I cannot find any justification as to why BAF has not ordered J-10s yet.





Agreed again. I fear this is exactly what is going to happen.

Our doctrine will not allow us to go at offensive. At most we will be defending our airspace. We won’t be going into deep strike missions in enemy territory.
And as for maintaining 3 platforms. You answered it yourself. India is a poor country. We aren’t doing any better

 

[UKBengali]

Ideal option: a good number of a modern Western multirole type.

Another option: split buy of a Western and Chinese type.

What should not be options are Russian or Indian types.

This is not rocket science people.

What's troubling is the gap in capability between BAF and MyAF.

It takes time to effectively utilize new types.

BAF hasn't even placed an order yet apparently.

What happens if hostility breaks out? (Burma is run by anti Bengali thugs)

Cry to the UN?

Western and Chinese options now are a no brainer in my opinion. Turkey could start to follow in the 2030s if they actually manage to produce a somewhat decent 5th gen fighter but with a Western(probably UK) engine.

I have already posted many times that BAF needs to stay away from committing too much resources in the 2020s on 4th gen fighters. Yes Eurofighters with the upcoming Mk2 AESA radar would be especially good but the simple fact remains that they would be quite a way inferior to any 5th gen fighter like J-31 that comes out of China that Myanmar may start to field in very limited numbers(12-16) towards the latter part of this decade or early 2030s.

This is a big problem for BAF as it really needs to spend whatever little funding the BD government provides very wisely.

So my plan sees a Western and Chinese mix of new and refurbished 4th gen fighters in limited numbers this decade in order to cater fully for Myanmar and at least a start against India.
Think a couple of squadrons each of J-10C and refurbished F-16Cs or Eurofighters(with Meteor) if available would be the way too go.

Too many brand new 4th gen fighters that would still be in service in the 2050s would not be a good place to be.

 

[Destranator]

Our doctrine will not allow us to go at offensive. At most we will be defending our airspace. We won’t be going into deep strike missions in enemy territory.
And as for maintaining 3 platforms. You answered it yourself. India is a poor country. We aren’t doing any better

Even with a defensive doctrine you need offensive capabilities to neutralise key enemy military assets.
The other function of EFTs would be to counter Su-30s WVR.

There is simply no comparison between BAF maintaining 3 Western (reliable equipment) and Chinese (reliable supplier) platforms and the mess that IAF is in with 30+ squadrons of mostly Russian (unreliable eqpt + unreliable supplier) scattered over a large and diverse geographical area.

Maintaining only 3 different fighter platforms is pretty well manageable as evident worldwide.

If BAF morons still struggle, they can still gain credible deterrence by going for 6-8 squadrons of J10C's + Gripen F's.

They should order 2 sqds of J-10Cs immediately and then work to sort other things.

 

[SpaceMan18]

Our doctrine will not allow us to go at offensive. At most we will be defending our airspace. We won’t be going into deep strike missions in enemy territory.
And as for maintaining 3 platforms. You answered it yourself. India is a poor country. We aren’t doing any better

If Myanmar does attack we will have to actually go into deep strike missions to do damage to their ports. Or just ally with Thailand to keep Myanmar at bay

We just need a longer range and modern fighter , Gripens are good but BAf morons rejected it.

Even with a defensive doctrine you need offensive capabilities to neutralise key enemy military assets.
The other function of EFTs would be to counter Su-30s WVR.

There is simply no comparison between BAF maintaining 3 Western (reliable equipment) and Chinese (reliable supplier) platforms and the mess that IAF is in with 30+ squadrons of mostly Russian (unreliable eqpt + unreliable supplier) scattered over a large and diverse geographical area.

Maintaining only 3 different fighter platforms is pretty well manageable as evident worldwide.

If BAF morons still struggle, they can still gain credible deterrence by going for 6-8 squadrons of J10C's + Gripen F's.

They should order 2 sqds of J-10Cs immediately and then work to sort other things.

I agree, but man we'll have to wait til next year to see what these buffoons actually have ordered something or not.

J-10Cs with refurbished Typhoons would do

Also set aside some Typhoons for Maritime strike roles

And by 2028 start to plan for the Turkish Tai TFX cause it's rolling out by 2029

 

[UKBengali]

If Myanmar does attack we will have to actually go into deep strike missions to do damage to their ports. Or just ally with Thailand to keep Myanmar at bay

We just need a longer range and modern fighter , Gripens are good but BAf morons rejected it.


I agree, but man we'll have to wait til next year to see what these buffoons actually have ordered something or not.

J-10Cs with refurbished Typhoons would do

Also set aside some Typhoons for Maritime strike roles

And by 2028 start to plan for the Turkish Tai TFX cause it's rolling out by 2029

Only point to add is that TF-X is unlikely be available for export till the early 2030s at the earliest.
2035 would be a realistic earliest date for service with export customers.


The major problem with TF-X will be it's engine. Turkey is both developing it's own 4th gen engine and may work with UK on a 5th gen one.

 

[SpaceMan18]

Only point to add is that TF-X is unlikely be available for export till the early 2030s at the earliest.
2035 would be a realistic earliest date for service with export customers.


The major problem with TF-X will be it's engine. Turkey is both developing it's own 4th gen engine and may work with UK on a 5th gen one.

I guess J-31 is another option , do you have any other 5th gen suggestions ?

F-35 isn't an option , and I'm not sure if other European nations are making their own 5th gen fighters

If BAF doesn't sign a deal by next year , they can remove the Air Force name from them and call themselves a trainer/transport company with some weapons

 

[Michael Corleone]

Only point to add is that TF-X is unlikely be available for export till the early 2030s at the earliest.
2035 would be a realistic earliest date for service with export customers.


The major problem with TF-X will be it's engine. Turkey is both developing it's own 4th gen engine and may work with UK on a 5th gen one.

I thought they’re developing engine with the tempest project guys

Even with a defensive doctrine you need offensive capabilities to neutralise key enemy military assets.
The other function of EFTs would be to counter Su-30s WVR.

There is simply no comparison between BAF maintaining 3 Western (reliable equipment) and Chinese (reliable supplier) platforms and the mess that IAF is in with 30+ squadrons of mostly Russian (unreliable eqpt + unreliable supplier) scattered over a large and diverse geographical area.

Maintaining only 3 different fighter platforms is pretty well manageable as evident worldwide.

If BAF morons still struggle, they can still gain credible deterrence by going for 6-8 squadrons of J10C's + Gripen F's.

They should order 2 sqds of J-10Cs immediately and then work to sort other things.

With a billion or less spend in airforce, good luck getting more than 16 high end jets