Bangladesh Air Force

[Nilgiri]

just to know their opinion of what airplane do we need to buy!!!

I say just get more Mig 29 (i.e Mig 35)....simple, reliable, does the job great. You will get them fast and on time. You already are familiar with the training and weapons options too.

Everything else means you gotta start relatively new diplomacy/new logistics etc....which just plays into the govt corruption and delays and blah blah.

 

[UKBengali]

LOL back to the fake numbers and "infantry". Since when is (unprepared and caught off guard) BSF "infantry"... or representative of infantry in the actual Indian military?

If you have no respect for anything else....then don't send your officers for training at our defence schools (where they get the baksheesh in the end to follow orders of her holiness SHW too). It is not our fault that what Bangladesh does is in stark dissonance to what you want it to do (since you are just one of those "sylhetis" that aren't even seen as proper Bangladeshi by them). Why you think Hasina dutifully makes announcement on supporting India on Kashmir...even before we call her? The same Hasina you supported to stay in power .....it gives me immense joy to see you so angry at that.

Anyway it was dealt with in pilkhana, and now your own people (who aren't coward radicalised sylhetis that live in ghettos in the country that commited an actual real famine genocide against Bengalis) know what the long term result is:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bsf-...rom-brahmanbaria-border.597653/#post-11110966

These are just hogwash. After some huff and puff, BGB will arrange a welcome ceremony to accept the Rohingyas following an order from the ministry. Currently BGB has no works other than to exchange sweets with BSF, conducting flag lowering ceremony with BSF and assist the Awami govt. to manipulate the election. This illegitimate govt. will not do anything which may disturb the mind of it's principal international backer.

Now using the words of a child who is barely out of university(if that) to back up your points?



Pathetic even by your standards!

Yes it was a planned attack of 400 BSF men against less than 20 BD guards. They got simply trashed and went back to India with their tail between their legs - the ones that survived that is. The BJP government of the time just took it like a champ.

Now let us get back to topic. We know that BAF will get the first MRSAM battery this year. Question is when the MRCA contract will be signed?

 

[Avicenna]

Neither (India or Pakistan) signed the NPT. Bangladesh did. You will never get nuclear weapons out of your own decision. It's really that simple. You don't have vast oil reserves like Iran to start a grey area either....or openly rebel and leave like North Korea. You are heavily reliant on RMG and manpower export...and are all around a docile people that don't want to start trouble.



Only China and India have explicit no first use policy. The rest all reserve the right to strike first against other countries, some are vague about non-nuclear power countries....others are clear that they are considered as potential targets (based on conventional forces) as well.

So no there is no ultimate assurance given by NPT that its signatories will not ever be subject to a nuclear attack in return.

In fact Pakistan for example has not signed the NPT, does not have NFU policy, and has hinted first strike could be used against purely conventional forces. Given the lingering issues it has with Bangladesh (and you with them)....there is not a 0% potential use of "assurance"/"guarantee" level.



India wont (explicit NFU). Other countries however can definitely use nuclear weapons against Bangladesh. They have reserved the right to. Take it up with them before signing things like NPT. But you didn't (for the first) and you did (for the latter). One of those countries even used nuclear weapons against a country that did not possess them (Japan). So there is precedent.

Why we are even talking about this is strange. Bangladesh and India will not be having any war and there is no real conventional deterrence Bangladesh will be building up since it enjoys good relations with India in first place (the whole point of engaging in soft power and good relations is you do not have to have large defence budget that soaks up money that could be used for economic and social development).



In the end it depends on how you value the piece of paper that countries have signed. How you value their credibility and their word. US for example does not value the word of Iran's (which is NPT member) that highly at all. So this already brings into question how words will be honoured during war time.

Bangladesh would simply be wise to stay away from all of that as far as possible and get on with its economic growth (given your really low energy consumption, lack of credible institutions, heavy corruption and over reliance on just 2 things for economy for example). You are not really anyones target....hardly anyone even notices you (past those that have history with you in some way).

Talking about India needing a "full scale" attack on Bangladesh (spawns of its loins in first place) to "defeat" it (with some vague pie in the sky future projection given BD long history of sketchy low piecemeal acquisition)...is frankly the stupidest conversation ever. We don't and never will. It is the loser conversation of a stupid sylheti....bitter that his people are most ignored among the ignored....the weakest among the weak....and the most cowardly among the cowards. Real Bengali (Bangal) people from Dhaka elite etc, know much better and are far more pragmatic and engage with basic sense of better realpolitik.



No one is starting ww3 over Bangladesh. Relax. No one even lifts a real finger now as it is for the Rohingya situation. Bangladesh is a docile, ignored, quiet part of the world (bar the occaisional flare up like Pilkhana or Gulshan)...and it will stay that way. Whatever you do acquire is for posturing with Myanmar (whom with 3 - 4 times less ppl, you still wont engage either)....because it stands no chance against India (it simply in the end is piecemeal aggressor training purposes for India, which is why China or anyone else gives nothing top of the line to BD for India to check out). That is not going to change.

Yup.

Pretty much this.

Now back to the BAF speculation!

 

[Nilgiri]

Yup.

Pretty much this.

Now back to the BAF speculation!

You got your horse on the Gripen I take it? Its probably the best one of the western options....along with F-16. But it comes at a price of course.

Personally I feel BD should have just negotiated one big mega deal with the Russians and achieved some economy of scale there. i.e get the nuclear power plant + Mig 35 + weapons package + servicing +any TOT/capacity dev and any other acquisitions (spread it out for duration of the nuclear deal loan capex etc)....and save probably significant money and time in the end...and get stuff rolling so we don't need another 1000 page thread about this and that speculation/confirmed/deal-breaker.

It could also have started interesting dynamic in (over time) influencing/hedging with Russia which is underlooked player compared to India,China, US tripartite in BD politics.

 

[Avicenna]

You got your horse on the Gripen I take it? Its probably the best one of the western options....along with F-16. But it comes at a price of course.

Personally I feel BD should have just negotiated one big mega deal with the Russians and achieved some economy of scale there. i.e get the nuclear power plant + Mig 35 + weapons package + servicing +any TOT/capacity dev and any other acquisitions (spread it out for duration of the nuclear deal loan capex etc)....and save probably significant money and time in the end...and get stuff rolling so we don't need another 1000 page thread about this and that speculation/confirmed/deal-breaker.

It could also have started interesting dynamic in (over time) influencing/hedging with Russia which is underlooked player compared to India,China, US tripartite in BD politics.

Yea I favor buying the Gripen.

A couple of points.

You are totally correct in one of your previous posts regarding Bangladesh essentially being insignificant.

To me that is a blessing.

Additionally, Bengalis are at their core a docile people.

Not to say Bengalis won't fight hard when they need to fight. (Analagous to a cornered snake)

That being said, any weapons purchased are STRICTLY defensive.

I'm confident in saying Bangladesh has no designs on its neighbors.

The situation is somewhat reminicient of Sweden.

The Gripen is tailor made for a country like Bangaldesh.

It's short-field performance will come in handy during conflict when BD's few airfields may be out of commision.

Its technologically advanced.

Its the most affordable Western option. Both in up front costs and operating costs.

Also it would allow Bangladesh to mature in its capabilities.

Paired with Eireye and Giraffe as @Bilal Khan (Quwa) suggested earlier, it is MORE than sufficient to protect Bangladesh from any threat from Myanmar.

Additionally, its capable of maritime strike with its RBS-15.

So there is air defence of the homeland, as well as support for the army and navy.

Also importantly, it potentially upgrades Bangladesh's capabilities and opens the door for real contributions in exercises with foreign air arms.

Is buying the Gripen really all that more expensive than buying the Mig-35? (Given the inherent cost savings of the Mig-29 support being in place)

If I was running the BAF, I would buy an eventual 2 squadrons worth. Numbering 32 examples.

For the balance, I would try to buy the J-10CE if available.

If not, I would approach China for a BAF specific FC-1 to fill out the air force worth another 2 -3 squadrons. Numbering 32 to 48 aircraft.

Also important is the infrastructure, support systems as well as adequate training to effective utilize the equipment's capabilities.

Honestly, more than the costs of the equipment, it concerns me more the BAF's ability to absorb such platforms effectively and use it to its maximum effect.

Gripen is quite a jump from F-7 and early Mig-29s. (Although obviously other countries have made that leap. i.e. Czech Republic and Hungary.)

 

[Nilgiri]

Yea I favor buying the Gripen.

A couple of points.

You are totally correct in one of your previous posts regarding Bangladesh essentially being insignificant.

To me that is a blessing.

Additionally, Bengalis are at their core a docile people.

Not to say Bengalis won't fight hard when they need to fight. (Analagous to a cornered snake)

That being said, any weapons purchased are STRICTLY defensive.

I'm confident in saying Bangladesh has no designs on its neighbors.

The situation is somewhat reminicient of Sweden.

The Gripen is tailor made for a country like Bangaldesh.

It's short-field performance will come in handy during conflict when BD's few airfields may be out of commision.

Its technologically advanced.

Its the most affordable Western option. Both in up front costs and operating costs.

Also it would allow Bangladesh to mature in its capabilities.

Paired with Eireye and Giraffe as @Bilal Khan (Quwa), it is MORE than sufficient to protect Bangladesh from any threat from Myanmar.

Additionally, its capable of maritime strike with its RBS-15.

So there is air defence of the homeland, as well as support for the army and navy.

Also importantly, it potentially upgrades Bangladesh's capabilities and opens the door for real contributions in exercises with foreign air arms.

Is buying the Gripen really all that more expensive than buying the Mig-35? (Given the inherent cost savings of the Mig-29 support being in place)

If I was running the BAF, I would buy an eventual 2 squadrons worth. Numbering 32 examples.

For the balance, I would try to buy the J-10CE if available.

If not, I would approach China for a BAF specific FC-1 to fill out the air force worth another 2 -3 squadrons. Numbering 32 to 48 aircraft.

Also important is the infrastructure, support systems as well as adequate training to effective utilize the equipment's capabilities.

Honestly, more than the costs of the equipment, it concerns me more the BAF's ability to absorb such platforms effectively and use it to its maximum effect.

Gripen is quite a jump from F-7 and early Mig-29s. (Although obviously other countries have made that leap. i.e. Czech Republic and Hungary.)

Thanks. What is the timeframe you see where a firm decision will be made....and how long will the acquisition + implementation be after it?

Will it be this year? (for the decision)?

 

[Avicenna]

Thanks. What is the timeframe you see where a firm decision will be made....and how long will the acquisition + implementation be after it?

Will it be this year? (for the decision)?

I have no idea man.

I'm just a part-time keyboard warrior in Texas.

 

[Nilgiri]

Is buying the Gripen really all that more expensive than buying the Mig-35? (Given the inherent cost savings of the Mig-29 support being in place)

I would say now its not really that much more expensive (than Mig 35) given BD did not negotiate combined package with the (high cost) nuclear power plant deal with Russia....so did not benefit from any cost saving by doing that.

So yeah Gripen is a viable concept to go for given you also get fairly higher capacity/capability in the platform compared to Mig 35...given superior western avionics, integration and weapon packages....and of course the total life cycle costs (esp when normalised to flight hours available).

 

[Avicenna]

I would say now its not really that much more expensive (than Mig 35) given BD did not negotiate combined package with the (high cost) nuclear power plant deal with Russia....so did not benefit from any cost saving by doing that.

So yeah Gripen is a viable concept to go for given you also get fairly higher capacity/capability in the platform compared to Mig 35...given superior western avionics, integration and weapon packages....and of course the total life cycle costs (esp when normalised to flight hours available).

Exactly.

Plus it confers a host of political advantages going forward in my opinion.

But as others have said, the main barrier to any Gripen purchase is probably lack of interest or vision from Bangladesh.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Wow I lose my Apple ID and everything with it and this forum becomes alive

Well well. As for building a formidable force against India by 2030, I would first figure building one against Burma. Dismal state... :/

As for India invading Bangladesh, never happening but for arguments sake bd and India is at war, India invaded... it would be like castrating ones own genitalia... droves of population will move into India and there’s no fighting that amount of Bengali in uncontrolled mob xD

As for fighter purchases. I don’t think bd should invest in eurofighter (which I think it still cant afford, or dream to), platforms like Gripen should come with tot and manufacturing because let’s face it, sixth gen fighters are being developed, not many countries have fifth gen... most are skipping to develop the next gen... in order to be state of the art, a cost effective option of j10/ mig 35 or Gripen will do for the next 30 years... meanwhile local manufacturing capabilities should be increased and a co development project should be sought like the Turkish or British or the Chinese next gen designs... maybe Russian even now that India isn’t interested in those... what I’m trying to say is major purchases now would be a stupid move when all countries have effectively started work on successors of current modern fighters.

 

[Avicenna]

Wow I lose my Apple ID and everything with it and this forum becomes alive

Well well. As for building a formidable force against India by 2030, I would first figure building one against Burma. Dismal state... :/

As for India invading Bangladesh, never happening but for arguments sake bd and India is at war, India invaded... it would be like castrating ones own genitalia... droves of population will move into India and there’s no fighting that amount of Bengali in uncontrolled mob xD

As for fighter purchases. I don’t think bd should invest in eurofighter (which I think it still cant afford, or dream to), platforms like Gripen should come with tot and manufacturing because let’s face it, sixth gen fighters are being developed, not many countries have fifth gen... most are skipping to develop the next gen... in order to be state of the art, a cost effective option of j10/ mig 35 or Gripen will do for the next 30 years... meanwhile local manufacturing capabilities should be increased and a co development project should be sought like the Turkish or British or the Chinese next gen designs... maybe Russian even now that India isn’t interested in those... what I’m trying to say is major purchases now would be a stupid move when all countries have effectively started work on successors of current modern fighters.

This is all conjecture of course, but I think the time period between major advancements in fighter aircraft are going to increase. Analagous to Moore's Law with CPUs.

Resulting in platforms hanging around in some form for longer.

BAF is going from the "souped-up" F-7 era to the "next generation".

Lets master THAT jump first.

 

[VikingRaider]

https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .

 

[AMG_12]

https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .

Both are different class of fighters with different roles, it's not a fair comparison IMO.

 

[LKJ86]

https://aviatia.net/gripen-vs-mig-35/ So if we need to choose between Gripen and Mig 35 then gripen should be the better choice I think ?this link suggest that Gripen flying cost is much lower than mig , so why even think of Russian stuff if we can get European stuff at lower flying cost ? @Avicenna , @Nilgiri @UKBengali . I seriously prefer western stuffs to Russian .

Which version of Gripen?

 

[VikingRaider]

Which version of Gripen?

This version in the link !

Both are different class of fighters with different roles, it's not a fair comparison IMO.

Well actually I want to discuss so that I can learn something . I have no good idea about military stuffs tbh. Finally I am convinced by @UKBengali logic that Gripen should be our goal . And I also agree with him . But others opinions are more than welcome too . Thanks guys .